How do I pizza - and what do I dough

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Chuck 'n Geck

Formerly Chex
kiwifarms.net
Registrado
23 de Mayo, 2023
Haven't seen a dedicated thread, so here it is.

Are there any trade secrets for gourmet, restaurant-quality pizza you guys can share with the class, be it the equipment, ingredients, cooking methods and the like? I've been trying to hone out a recipe for a good homemade pizza, but my best results so far involve greasing the crust with olive oil and dunking four tablespoons of garlic powder for flavour - and even then the pizza tastes only slightly above mid.
 
I have a tendency to make maslin sourdough crusts and to replace part of the fat content of the dough with the oil used to store preserved sundried tomatoes. It gives the a slight orangeness to the dough but adds a very subtle rich tomato flavor to the crust that tends to help balance the richness and fattiness if you use alot of meat and cheese in the topping

and don't use garlic powder, use actual minced garlic. albeit small amounts. It makes a difference

Now and again i'll do a camp pizza during hunting season, which is cooked over a campfire in a thick cast iron pan with a lid and it turns out really nicely if you do it right, the radiant heat from cast iron is fantastic for alot of things - recommend for cooking bacon and eggs in it as well, which also contributes to seasoning the pan
 
sadly without a proper pizza oven you will cap out way too fast, at least thats my experience
pizza stone makes it a bit better, but still not as good as proper pizza oven
normal electric ovens cap out at less than 250°C, but a pizza oven gonna get way hot

there also is the meme with slow rise dough, basically use less yeast and let the dough sit overnight, it gets a bit better from that

noob mistake for pizza is to use way too much topping, or even worse, cheese in slices
What're people's opinions of baking equipment - stone vs steel vs just put a baking sheet in the oven?
baking sheet is nogo
stone is superior because it keeps a lot of heat and gives it to the pizza fast
idk what you mean by steel, if you do it directly on the tray thats fine for an "ok" home pizza thats enjoyable, but not incredible
if you mean small iron forms for the pizza like u see in a pizzeria, those mainly help with sticking, the oven has a stone anyways, so its basically like baking on stone
 
stone is superior because it keeps a lot of heat and gives it to the pizza fast
Stone holds heat better for a more even bake, but steel transfers the heat much faster, and for a pizza that only takes a few minutes to cook, heat transfer trumps even heating. It's not like you're cooking a loaf of bread that takes 30 minutes. For a home baking situation, a steel is superior, it'll give you a crispier crust, and it heats up faster. You won't need to leave your oven on for an hour to preheat. Stones are also prone to cracking at the slightest fuck up, where as a steel is basically indestructible.

I've also never seen an electric oven that doesn't do 500F, 260C. My current oven is a piece of shit and it does 525F/275C.
 
What're people's opinions of baking equipment - stone vs steel vs just put a baking sheet in the oven?
My place's too small to even put a proper pizza oven anywhere, so can't say much about it - but I don't use a baking sheet for pizzas. I've got a tray so the end result at least comes out in a proper shape.

I'm considering to try out the cast iron meme, and I'm not sure if getting a new skillet is fine, or if I just should undig an old one from my grandma's belongings.
 
Preheat the tray, grease some foil with olive oil and sprinkle with cornmeal, prep the pizza on there then you can pick up the foil to transfer it to the preheated tray which should get some good crust on the bottom. Find a high temp recipe, you can also turn on the broiler for a minute or two to get the top of the crust crispy.
 
idk what you mean by steel, if you do it directly on the tray thats fine for an "ok" home pizza thats enjoyable, but not incredible
if you mean small iron forms for the pizza like u see in a pizzeria, those mainly help with sticking, the oven has a stone anyways, so its basically like baking on stone
I'm talking about this kind of thing. Basically a pizza stone, but made of steel.
 
but my best results so far involve greasing the crust with olive oil and dunking four tablespoons of garlic powder for flavour - and even then the pizza tastes only slightly above mid.
The fact that the garlic powder wasn't burned to shit and horrendously bitter tells me you're not baking it hot or long enough. I've experimented quite a bit with making pizza in a regular home oven, and I get pretty decent results these days.

Dough:
If you want a flavorful crust, fermenting it in the fridge is mandatory. The cheapest, shittiest grocery store flour fermented for two or three days will make a tastier crust than the fanciest flour from Italy, and it's not going to be close. Make the dough with far less yeast, put it in an oiled Ziploc bag and just leave it in the fridge. Baking the pizza in a home oven requires a slightly wetter dough. Stickier and more difficult to work with, but it can bake for longer without getting too dry or too dark. As a rough starting point: 500 grams of flour, 310-320 grams of water, two teaspoons of salt, 1 gram (1/5 teaspoon) of active dry yeast. Knead for 10 minutes, put it in a Ziploc bag, let it ferment in the fridge for two to three days. Take it out of the fridge, let it come up to room temp (1-2 hours) divide into three portions, shape those portions into a ball (with a nice amount of surface tension), put said balls into oiled bowls and let them rest for 90 minutes so the gluten can relax, otherwise they're going to be impossible to stretch out. Once you're more comfortable handling wet doughs, you will probably want to increase the water to 340-350 grams to make the crust more airy, but 310-320 is a good compromise to start with.

Toppings/sauce:
When you use a home oven, you really need to be mindful of how much moisture you're putting on top of the crust, because there's not going to be any browning until the water is gone. For that reason I make my sauce with a mix of concentrated tomato puree and passata rather than just straight up passata. And I only use maybe two table spoons for the entire pie. Over-season the sauce because you only use so little of it. I use like three times as much salt and pepper as I would normally use for a pasta sauce.

As far as toppings go, less really is more. The more you put on, the less browning/flavor there's going to be. That's especially true for toppings like cheese, onions, tomatoes that have lots of moisture. For the cheese, use a blend of Mozzarella and something more flavorful. 2/3 mozzarella (low-moisture, not the water-packed balls) and 1/3 Provolone, Cheddar, Edam or Gouda, depending on where you live and what's easy to get.

Baking:
Assuming your oven is electric, bake your pizza on the bottom. I don't mean the bottom rack, but the bottom of the oven. If your baking sheet/tray can handle high temps, that's the best way to get enough heat from the bottom without using a stone or steel. Using a sheet is fine. Even baking paper can be fine if you don't go for too long. The moisture inside the dough will limit the temperature as long as it's still present. If your oven has a max temp of say 250°C, you would preheat it to 200°C, put in the pizza and then set it to 250°C once the pizza is in. The idea is to make sure that the bottom heating element is active for several minutes after you put in the pizza, so that's why you're preheating to a lower temp and then bumping it up. If your oven has a fan, turn it on after the pizza goes in so it gets enough heat from the top as well. If it doesn't have a fan, you may have to move the pizza higher after 5 minutes. If you use a stone/steel, you would preheat it to 250°C of course.

Random tips:
-If you knead the dough by hand, do it inside a non-stick skillet to avoid messing up your counters. You can also use it (very lightly oiled or with a layer of flour on the bottom) to shape the dough into balls.
-If you use a stone or steel, use plenty of semolina flour, work fast once the pizza is on the peel, practice transferring the pizza to the stone/steel without topping first (but have it sit on the peel for a realistic amount of time). If it sticks to the peel, ABORT, start over or maybe turn the pizza into a Calzone and add more Semolina. Don't force it. Dropping a pizza topped with cheese onto the bottom of a hot oven is an absolute nightmare. It will fill your kitchen with smoke, your entire place will smell like burnt cheese for a long time and you will spend hours cleaning that oven. Avoid at all costs.
 
What're people's opinions of baking equipment - stone vs steel vs just put a baking sheet in the oven?
Steel. Hot rolled mild steel plate 12x12x3/8", blast the millscale off with a flap wheel, go. Shitty electric oven with a long preheat is fine (you want black spots on both top and bottom).

I'm considering to try out the cast iron meme
For an entirely different kind of pizza - A 9" cast iron skillet fits in a 2gal ziploc for rising in the pan. Bar-style puffy pizza, fried bottom (olive oil), toppings all the way to the edge.

Poster above me is entirely correct about fermentation. I have been doing a poolish in addition to retarding in the fridge.
I also like a bit of diastatic malt powder. Improves flavor and browning.
 
Última edición:
What I do is a bit wonky, but I like Cicero's in the bay area and they do this super thin crust style and this is kind of like that. It's also pretty cheap if you already have baking sheets that will work.

1) Buy the dough from Winco, fuck making that yourself. It's the same ingredients either way but someone else kneaded it. God knows what the ratios are though. I split it up and let it sit in lightly oiled deli cups for days but it doesn't have to sit for days. $1.48 makes 2 decently sized pizzas rolled thin.
2) Roll that shit out THIN, don't skimp on flour to keep it from sticking while rolling and later. Repeat, DO NOT SKIMP ON THE FLOUR. It is the combination of flour and semolina/cornmeal that keeps it from sticking.
3) I started with steel baking sheets (not cushion-air types, that's important) I put in a 500f oven on convection bake for the entire preheat time (covered with foil to make cleanup easy). I bought a "pizza disk" from Lloyd Pans and a pan to catch from below which works better for crust cooking consistency, but no need to spend $100bux on specialized shit if you don't know if you even like this style.
4) Use cornmeal or semolina flour on an un-rimmed baking sheet or peel (I opted for a peel eventually) and don't skimp, you don't want it sticking. You plop your thin-ass dough on this and then slid it onto the now-hot baking sheet in the oven.
5) Pizza sauce is easy, buy a can of peeled tomatos, aggressively drain the liquid, dump half of them in a stick-blender vessel, I put oregano, garlic salt, and dried minced onions (onion powder would work though) to taste (this may take refinement), then dump the other half of the 'maters on top, blend until smooth. You're done. You can cook it off but you don't need to. It keeps for a few days. $1.40something in tomatos makes enough sauce for like 3 pizzas, keeps for about a week refridgerated.
5) Cheese, I use half-prov half-low moisture full fat moz...ish. Strictly speaking I shred deli slides of prov with a grater, and I keep all of it in the freezer. The freezer is helpful to keep the cheese from going over while everything else cooks at lower-than-pizza-oven-temps. I'll dust over the top of grated parm (from a wedge of parm) before baking. $2.98 for the moz and $3something for the prov makes 5-7 pizzas IME. Parm was like...$4something and it will last for at least 8 pizzas.
6) I go simple for toppings: pepperoni (sliced with a mandolin, specifically a $40 benriner, but not all of them will do this) and mushrooms which also can be sliced thin enough to cook in time, which is key for oven-based pizzamaking. Play around with it though, these are just cheap and available for me. Pepperoni as a cheap stick is like $3.98 and does 3 pizzas if you don't go nuts, $2.40something on non-shitake mushrooms makes 2 pizzas.
7) Cook time is kind of by feel, you will figure it out. Cheese bubbling towards the middle is usually a good sign. The pepperoni will probably get toasty so it may be a bit smoky but I find this often tastes fine, and the edge of the crush may be dark, just make sure it doesn't burn.

Note that if you have unrimmed baking sheets and you detect a stick (I shake the pizza as I'm assembling it to see if it's sticking) you can save it if you have multiple identically flat sheets. Take a sheet and cover it with parchment paper, put it on top of your now assembled but sticking pizza, flip this entire assembly and remove the bottom sheet, apply some flour or semolina in the area it is sticking on the now exposed bottom of the pizza, dry off any wet spots on the original bottom sheet before you return it, flip it back over. It won't look amazing but if it slides off you won and it probably won't make a huge difference once it's baked.
 
I like Cicero's in the bay area
that's weirdly specific.

For round pies I use one of these lodge cast irons for the home oven they work well and retain heat at a degree most pizza stones or steels can't.
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I follow the recipe for a bagel dough but use higher hydration, always bread flower, bloom the yeast and good olive oil at the end. The key to pizza dough is time, put it in the fridge, beat it down every two days. Three or four days is perfect.

I also do grandma pies, sheets of moz work best for that. Real cheap, and you can par-bake your dough in some olive oil on a baking sheet. Super easy.

I've been putting this stupid grill mates chimi churri seasoning on everything and it works well with pizza.

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