Halo MCC/Infinite/general Griefing thread - Six months, two maps, no refunds

What did you think of Infinite after the campaign showcase?

  • It looked good

  • Good, but they need to iron out some issues

  • Majorly apprehensive

  • It sucked donkey dick

  • I need to see more

  • I don't know

  • Craig monke


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Basically, that's the case. Bungie created a story with a beginning, middle, and end, and the only thing they left room for is prequels. Then the Forerunner Trilogy, the Kilo-Fove books, and the Reclaimer Saga sauntered in, and what was once a concluded story with lingering mysteries became a series overburdened by its lore, which led to it losing its simple appeal. Halo 4 was nice enough, but Halo 5 killed any potential it had.
Post Halo 3, the lore and backstory was overexplored, just like in the Assassin's Creed franchise.

Simple things can no longer be handwaved away as part of pure worldbuilding, things now have be narratively explained more and more, and this overexposure dissipates any sense of mystery. (i.e. whoever wanted to know what the Librarian/Diadact looked like? Were the Precursors necessary?)

On top of that, I'd argue that one of Halo's immersive worldbuilding strengths (you and a very small cast of supporting characters in a vast, empty mysterious alien construct, or a tight narrative involving specific backstory instances) is lost as the narrative universe sprawls beyond the game, and may risk drawing in out-of-game characters into advancing the narrative (like in Assassins's Creed).

I'd agree that the entire franchise needs a weedwhacker brought in to clear out some of the overgrown universe, but some things are long out of the box and cannot be returned to that state of mystery, so to speak. IMO Halo also doesn't need to be constantly pushing out entries- sometimes less is more, though the bean counters would beg to differ.

On another note, I recall a Halo 3 blog that explained the whole backstory wonderfully- not sure if this is it, but it's interesting seeing the deciphering of the lore that players can do on their own- no official depiction necessary!
 
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In your opinion can one play Halo 4 and consider things concluded or does 4 leave things too open? (without any spoilers though, please)

I want to finally play Halo 4 when it's added to the MCC but I remain highly skeptical of where the series goes from there.
Halo 4 is a little jarring in ways I can't really explain without spoiling the experience. The cliffnotes version is Halo 4 has a lot of lead in material (books and a films) that is necessary to understand what is going on. If you play the game as a straight sequel to 3 then the plot will lose you about a third of the way in. As a conclusion, the game ends as the first chapter of something that will never be properly realised. IMO 3 or Reach is the perfect stepping off point.
 
Halo 4 is a little jarring in ways I can't really explain without spoiling the experience. The cliffnotes version is Halo 4 has a lot of lead in material (books and a films) that is necessary to understand what is going on. If you play the game as a straight sequel to 3 then the plot will lose you about a third of the way in. As a conclusion, the game ends as the first chapter of something that will never be properly realised. IMO 3 or Reach is the perfect stepping off point.

343i cannot come up with a plot and fucking stick with it and give it a proper resolution.

The ultimate enemy of all mankind! The Didact! Just kidding, he got his bitch ass taken out in a comic book.

But that's okay, because we've got his replacement, Space Osama Bin Laden! I mean, uhh, Jul 'Mdama! Oh wait, no. He died like a bitch. Damn, and you suffered all the way through Spartan Ops and Palmer being a huge bitch to everyone for nothing. Sucker.

But that's fine, because all that was just a setup for the real antagonist, Cortana herself, who's been cooped up and taking a lot of Forerunner AI-meth or something and now she's a dangerous AI meth-head and she's convinced all the other AIs to get fucked up on meth with her. They also have giant Forerunner robots and can EMP whole planets and bring civilization to a grinding halt and shit. Ohhhh, uhhh, we've written ourselves into a corner and don't know how to resolve this plot. Reboot!

See, your enemy is actually Brutes. It was the Jiralhanae all along. They're back. And they're meaner than ever. And the Elites are their bitches. There's this dude, and he's like "BAAARE YUR FANGS SPARTAN" and he's like, I dunno. He's Donald Trump. Yes, he's Brute Donald Trump. He's kind of a dickhead and he's smug and stuff and you have to wipe that smug smirk off his face.

With your grappling hook. :smug:
 
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Post Halo 3, the lore and backstory was overexplored, just like in the Assassin's Creed franchise
Halo lore veterans: answer me this?

Were the novels created after the success of Halo 3? Are they detrimental to understanding Halo's universe?

To me, I think Halo is overwhelming in terms of plot.
 
Halo lore veterans: answer me this?

Were the novels created after the success of Halo 3? Are they detrimental to understanding Halo's universe?

To me, I think Halo is overwhelming in terms of plot.

The earlier ones were not, with Nylund's Fall of Reach coming out just before the first game (naturally it's gotten retconned to hell). Anything by the aforementioned Eric Nylund is Bungie-era. Others would be Contact Harvest, First Strike, The Flood (novelization of the first game), and Cole Protocol. That's what I can remember off the top of my head.
 
Post Halo 3, the lore and backstory was overexplored, just like in the Assassin's Creed franchise.

Simple things can no longer be handwaved away as part of pure worldbuilding, things now have be narratively explained more and more, and this overexposure dissipates any sense of mystery. (i.e. whoever wanted to know what the Librarian/Diadact looked like? Were the Precursors necessary?)

The precursors were actually alluded to in Halo 3. I think they were described as "legends of the past" or something but they did exist in Bungie era Halo.

I don't mind the expanded lore. Greg Bear's Forerunner trilogy is a great read. As long as the expanded universe isn't required reading for the games going forward, I don't see the problem. Likewise with games like Halo War 2. I would expect there to be some sort of exposition to explain the origins of the Banished and whatever happened to humanity vs the created.
 
I think that's the overall problem with post-343i stories. They all rely on knowing the expanded universe to understand the plot, which is a big nope (even for someone like me who has listened to most of the audiobooks).

Well, that and Halo 5's story was legitimately garbage.
 
Since we're talking about Halo novels, I dunno if this video's been posted or not:
I know, >Polygon, but Unraveled is about the only good thing Polygon's ever produced. I wasn't even aware of how many Halo books had come out over the years; I always saw them when I was at the bookstore, but I'd basically checked out of Halo for a long while there so I never picked any of them up.

I think it's less that you need to read them all to understand the plot, and more that 343 forgets to put enough of the setup in the games themselves to give you a foundation to work off of, shunting a lot of the most important backstory into the books. I feel like it would be relatively easy to fix by just working off of the assumption that the people who are playing the campaigns are only playing the mainline games and making sure that each game is directly following from the previous (y'know, like the original Halo trilogy).

From my understanding, this wasn't quite as big a deal with Halo 4 and the Forerunner trilogy. It provided a lot of info on the Forerunner-Flood War and gave more characterization to the Librarian and Didact, but you didn't really need to know that to follow Halo 4's plot (source: I never read them before playing). But by the time 5 rolled around, there were considerably more books coming out, and instead of creating a direct follow-up to 4, they just kind of assumed you read them all before going into the campaign, the result being a pretty disjointed experience for people who were only playing the mainline Halo games.

Bringing back Joseph Staten may help Infinite's story, but given 343's track record, I'm not gonna raise my expectations too high.
 
I'm just gonna say it; for as bad as 343 are (very!), it was really Halo: Reach that killed the franchise. It was clear Bungie didn't care anymore and was just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Unfortunately a lot stuck and it still reeks to this day.

343 could turn things around if they had a passionate team, but employees were literally hired for their passion of hating Halo. So that's not happening. I feel bad for Staten, he's in an unwinnable situation and will inevitably take some of the blame.
 
But that's okay, because we've got his replacement, Space Osama Bin Laden! I mean, uhh, Jul 'Mdama! Oh wait, no. He died like a bitch. Damn, and you suffered all the way through Spartan Ops and Palmer being a huge bitch to everyone for nothing. Sucker.
What happened to the Forerunner key that both the Infinity and 'Mdama were after? I've played Halo 5 but I don't remember any mention of it past Spartan Ops.
 
Post Halo 3, the lore and backstory was overexplored, just like in the Assassin's Creed franchise.

Simple things can no longer be handwaved away as part of pure worldbuilding, things now have be narratively explained more and more, and this overexposure dissipates any sense of mystery. (i.e. whoever wanted to know what the Librarian/Diadact looked like? Were the Precursors necessary?)

On top of that, I'd argue that one of Halo's immersive worldbuilding strengths (you and a very small cast of supporting characters in a vast, empty mysterious alien construct, or a tight narrative involving specific backstory instances) is lost as the narrative universe sprawls beyond the game, and may risk drawing in out-of-game characters into advancing the narrative (like in Assassins's Creed).

I'd agree that the entire franchise needs a weedwhacker brought in to clear out some of the overgrown universe, but some things are long out of the box and cannot be returned to that state of mystery, so to speak. IMO Halo also doesn't need to be constantly pushing out entries- sometimes less is more, though the bean counters would beg to differ.

On another note, I recall a Halo 3 blog that explained the whole backstory wonderfully- not sure if this is it, but it's interesting seeing the deciphering of the lore that players can do on their own- no official depiction necessary!

Basically. The Halo 3 story left things well enough. The humans are the descendants of the Forerunners, the Covenant leaders declared war on them because they didn't want that truth leaking out, the Forerunners wanted their descendants to inherit everything they had, the Flood were the ancient enemy of your ancestors (ie. when the Flood Gravemind says "Child of my enemy, why have you come? I offer no forgiveness. The father's sins, pass to his son.")

If they wanted to push out more entries, they should have pushed out more stuff from the Human vs. Covenant War or side stories happening while the main trilogy was happening. Like say, have Halo Wars 2 happen during the Human-Covenant War, have the Spirit of Fire bump into the Banished in the ass end of space far from the UNSC as the Banished are waging war against the Covenant. The Spirit of Fire crew and the Banished start out fighting each other, but when they realize they're on the same side against the Covenant, they break bread, make peace, and work together. Or have a game taking place from the POV of an up-and-coming Sangheili Zealot as the Covenant Civil War breaks out, and you fight all over the place, you fight Brutes loyal to the Prophets, Insurrectionist humans who are using the UNSC's weakness in the wake of the Covenant invasion of Earth to attack UNSC colonies, you even fight some Sangheili warlords who hate humanity and the Arbiter in order to ensure the Sangheili-human alliance is solidified by the time Master Chief arrives on Earth.

But no, they had to keep on beating the story to death after Halo 4. Halo 4 is nice enough, but it wrapped things up well too. I wouldn't mind more stories after it, but 343's expanded lore destroyed any lingering mysteries about the Forerunners and they decimated any excitement people had for the new bad guys. The UNSC is controlled by a corrupt shadow government from ONI, the Covenant regressed back to what they were in Halo 1, the Brutes are bad guys again even though there's no Prophets to lead them to fight against humanity anymore, and for some strange reason, Cortana's the enemy even though she should be humanity's ally. It makes me want to bash my head against the wall.

The precursors were actually alluded to in Halo 3. I think they were described as "legends of the past" or something but they did exist in Bungie era Halo.

I don't mind the expanded lore. Greg Bear's Forerunner trilogy is a great read. As long as the expanded universe isn't required reading for the games going forward, I don't see the problem. Likewise with games like Halo War 2. I would expect there to be some sort of exposition to explain the origins of the Banished and whatever happened to humanity vs the created.

The Precursors weren't alluded in any previous Halo game. At most we just had the Forerunners being ancient humans, which got sledgehammered by Greg Bear's Forerunner Trilogy. 343 Guilty Spark openly tells Chief "You are Forerunner" even though the Forerunner Trilogy proved him wrong later on, which goes to show that Halo 3 intended for the Forerunners and humans to be the same species, yet later books disproved that theory so as to pad out conflict between humans and Forerunners. Halo 4 made good use of that conflict to create a decent story, but the story contradicts previous lore established by the games that clearly makes the humans the biological descendants of the Forerunners, which explained why the Covenant leaders waged war on them.

Now, for some reason, the Forerunners and the humans were rival species, but the Forerunners somehow made the humans their heirs even though they blasted the humans back into the stone age? It makes no sense, and the previous explanation was so much better-the reason why Forerunner tools and tech works for humans is because, as 343 Guilty Spark says, humans ARE Forerunners. At most, you can explain humans away as Forerunners who somehow became primitive and forgot all about their previous tech, which has happened in sci-fi before when people get stranded in a primitive planet and they go native. So it makes sense why Forerunner tools work for the humans despite the humans having forgotten things and became primitive, because they still have Forerunner DNA in them, and the Forerunner machines automatically recognize humans as Forerunners.

In my own Halo stories, I had to re-write things to return the lore to Halo 3 levels. To justify Forerunner machines working for humans and the Forerunners making them their heirs, I decided to add in that the Forerunners and humans were once the same species but drifted apart and evolved differently, with the Precursors favoring the humans, leading the Forerunners to kill them and wage war to drive out humanity out of their space in a sort of Cain and Abel scenario, which explains why the advanced humans would later invade Forerunner space instead of asking them for help when the Flood invaded. And I wrote in that the Precursors favored the humans because they were once humans themselves before their own scientific experiments and search for forbidden knowledge turned them into abominations. That way, ancient humans are still the precursor race, a theme Halo 3 beat into our skulls rather conclusively.

They already explained the origins of the Banished as Brutes who wouldn't take orders from the Prophets and got tired of being Covenant cannon fodder. As for Humanity vs. the Created, there's barely any excitement for it. It's the typical Skynet plot with a PMS-ing Cortana as our Skynet. Quite a step down from the narrative masterpiece that was Halo 2 or the epic tragedy which was Halo 4.

I'm just gonna say it; for as bad as 343 are (very!), it was really Halo: Reach that killed the franchise. It was clear Bungie didn't care anymore and was just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Unfortunately a lot stuck and it still reeks to this day.

343 could turn things around if they had a passionate team, but employees were literally hired for their passion of hating Halo. So that's not happening. I feel bad for Staten, he's in an unwinnable situation and will inevitably take some of the blame.

No it didn't. Halo Reach was well-loved during its time, and people played it all the time and loved Bungie for it.

As for 343's people hating Halo, that's the same case with Star Wars where the current Story Group and the people in charge hate everything that the SW Original Trilogy stood for and did their best to undo those movies with the Sequel Trilogy.
 
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What happened to the Forerunner key that both the Infinity and 'Mdama were after? I've played Halo 5 but I don't remember any mention of it past Spartan Ops.

Subplot was resolved in a tie-in comic.

Reams of Forerunner tech were almost within humanity’s grasp, but Halsey fucked it up.


After Retribution was forced through a portal to a large chamber, Halsey, 'Mdama, and a contingent of Zealots traveled to a lower platform, where Halsey addressed the ancilla and told it that she was selected by the Librarian and her possession of the Janus Key was proof of it. However, the AI was skeptical of her claims, stating that Halsey could have obtained the Key by force and especially pondering why the other humans aboard Retribution felt the need to conceal themselves. The AI had its Sentinels bring the other humans down to the platform, and stated its intent to let each human have a chance to account for its presence at the installation. Frustrated after a heated conflict between the two parties, the AI removed the flooring from under the feet of the Sangheili, with Tanaka, Palmer, and Glassman remaining on one platform and Halsey with 'Mdama standing on another. In order to decide who would be the legitimate steward of the Absolute Record, the AI decided on a direct examination.[10] It had both factions isolated and gave them a hypothetical scenario, in which a sapient species turned out to have bodies conducive to a Flood vaccine. Abducting and harvesting live beings would give a thirty-five percent chance of Flood-immune material, but receiving dead bodies from the beings would give them a thirty-three percent chance. Despite 'Mdama's advice, Halsey chose live capture while Glassman chose the peaceful option, and the ancilla commended both. It then asked if their opponents in this test should be kept confined or immediately killed, but instead of answering, Halsey hacked the ancilla and shut it down, taking control of the Record for herself.[11]

In the Record, Halsey followed a hologram of the Librarian directing her to dormant design seeds scattered across the galaxy, which she could choose to activate the next step of their plans for human evolution. As she listened, 'Mdama started to grow impatient with Halsey and told his warriors to restrain her once she left to remind her of who was in charge. Halsey overheard 'Mdama's through the Record's systems and decided to sever their partnership and send the installation's Sentinels to attack 'Mdama and his men.[12] As Halsey made preparations, Palmer, Tanaka, and Glassman came in contact with a Sentinel containing the backup memory of the Record's ancilla. With their aid, the AI regained control of the facility and barred Halsey from controlling it further. The custodian then took the Janus Key and pulled the Absolute Record back into slipspace.[13]
 
Subplot was resolved in a tie-in comic.

Reams of Forerunner tech were almost within humanity’s grasp, but Halsey fucked it up.


Another classic example of 343 throwing away potential. The Janus Key could have been the central plot of Halo 5. Instead, it was thrown in a dumpster just so they can make Halsey look bad again because 343 made her a villain despite her previous characterization as a broken woman doting over her Spartans.
 
Halo lore veterans: answer me this?

Were the novels created after the success of Halo 3? Are they detrimental to understanding Halo's universe?

To me, I think Halo is overwhelming in terms of plot.

Okay, so the Eric Nylund books started shortly before the release of Halo: CE. The first book made was the Fall of Reach, which is basically a companion piece to Combat Evolved explaining wtf is going on. It's pretty fucking cool, and a good first step into the EU of the Halo Universe. The Flood is basically a book retelling of Combat Evolved, with some added bits in. The real shining gems of the Eric Nylund books are First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx. They expand on the Halo universe in such a way that inspired countless games (Halo: Reach, at least in terms of the Spartan IIIs), and are some of, in my opinion, the best sci-fi media ever made--Especially Ghosts of Onyx.

There's a bunch of other books, but typically it's agreed upon that they're "Okay" to "Good". At least until you hit the beginning of the Forerunner Trilogy. The Forerunner Trilogy is divisive. You either love it, or you hate it. I love it. Most of it is just a greater explanation of the stuff from the Halo 3 Terminals. Outside of that, your variation in quality begins at the Karen Travis books, which are the start of Post Halo 3 EU. Glasslands is okay, but has a lot of problems. I already mentioned my disdain for the character of Naomi. This is also where the start of, "You need to read the books to understand the games" begins. Halo 4 and 5 directly reference the Travis books, which is horrifying considering Glasslands is the only decent one of the bunch.

After Karen Travis took a dump on the lore, 343i brought in some other writers and they've been hit or miss. Eric Nylund came back and wrote a book focused around the Shipmaster character from Halo 2 (the one missing mandibles). There's also been some more prequel books based around Blue Team (Chief and his Team) which are okay. They made some books about Buck. New Blood and Bad Blood, the former explains how he became a Spartan IV, and Bad Blood is after Halo 5 and goes over him leaving Osiris and putting his ODST team back together (all as Spartan IVs). Legacy of Onyx concludes the stories of the Spartan III characters from Onyx and Glasslands. It's pretty good if you want closure for that stuff.



Overall, think of it like the old Star Wars canon. A lot of it is cool, a lot of it is shit, a lot of it can be disregarded, but some of it is forced down your throat.
 
Another classic example of 343 throwing away potential. The Janus Key could have been the central plot of Halo 5. Instead, it was thrown in a dumpster just so they can make Halsey look bad again because 343 made her a villain despite her previous characterization as a broken woman doting over her Spartans.

Don’t even get me started on Karen Traviss and 343i giving Halsey the Josef Mengele treatment. I absolutely destroyed Halo: Glasslands in a two-star Amazon review nine years ago. They got so buttmad, they eventually pushed my review out of the Most Helpful Critical Review spot, even though it had 434 helpful ratings, lol.

Glasslands and Halo 4 contravene the established canon of the series by laying all the blame for everything bad at Halsey’s feet. The overall effect of this is to ruin the depiction of the UNSC as having sinister and dystopian undertones; after all, if they’re willing to hold themselves accountable—or at least scapegoat the people responsible for kidnapping children and making them into super-soldiers—then clearly, they aren’t as bad as we thought. Except that’s not what happened.

What happened is that Karen Traviss didn’t even bother to read the Halo story bible, and either didn’t realize or didn’t care that Margaret Parangosky and ONI had full oversight over the SPARTAN-II program and every aspect of it, including the abductions and the flash clones. The idea that Halsey could keep anything secret from ONI when ONI Smart AIs were trawling the very equipment she worked on as a civilian contractor is a giant fucking farce. Rather than making it clear that the UNSC knew what they did was evil, but were throwing Halsey under the bus anyway, Karen Traviss elected to write the UNSC up as being totally ignorant of the nature of their own black projects. It was the dumbest thing I’d ever seen committed to print.
 
Don’t even get me started on Karen Traviss and 343i giving Halsey the Josef Mengele treatment. I absolutely destroyed Halo: Glasslands in a two-star Amazon review nine years ago. They got so buttmad, they eventually pushed my review out of the Most Helpful Critical Review spot, even though it had 434 helpful ratings, lol.

Glasslands and Halo 4 contravene the established canon of the series by laying all the blame for everything bad at Halsey’s feet. The overall effect of this is to ruin the depiction of the UNSC as having sinister and dystopian undertones; after all, if they’re willing to hold themselves accountable—or at least scapegoat the people responsible for kidnapping children and making them into super-soldiers—then clearly, they aren’t as bad as we thought. Except that’s not what happened.

What happened is that Karen Traviss didn’t even bother to read the Halo story bible, and either didn’t realize or didn’t care that Margaret Parangosky and ONI had full oversight over the SPARTAN-II program and every aspect of it, including the abductions and the flash clones. The idea that Halsey could keep anything secret from ONI when ONI Smart AIs were trawling the very equipment she worked on as a civilian contractor is a giant fucking farce. Rather than making it clear that the UNSC knew what they did was evil, but were throwing Halsey under the bus anyway, Karen Traviss elected to write the UNSC up as being totally ignorant of the nature of their own black projects. It was the dumbest thing I’d ever seen committed to print.

Welcome to the insanity of Karen Traviss.

Just when I thought I've escaped this woman after engaging her fans in a month-long debate.

To begin with, this is the same woman who denounces fans of the Jedi Order, describing said fans as having the same kind of thinking as the Nazis. If that doesn't set off your alarm bells right off the bat, I don't know what will.

As I said before, Catherine Halsey had no real power over ONI. At most, she was merely working for them as a scientist, making sure that the Spartan-2 Project worked. ONI was already pulling off super-soldier projects, and if it wasn't for Halsey, the project would have likely failed and those kids would have died for nothing. The UNSC won't have Spartan-3s or 4s, because they both are derivative of the Spartan-2 project and relied upon data and information from the previous project. ONI was gonna kidnap kids to make super-soldiers anyways; Halsey tried to mitigate the damage and tried to take care of the Spartans as best she can. The fact that she was one of the few people who was wracked with guilt over the project and the fact that she actually gave a damn about them to the point where she acts as if the Spartans were her kids goes to show that she was one of the few bright spots for the candidates of the Spartan-2 Project. ONI couldn't give less of a crap about the deaths of those kids and took in more kids to be trained as suicide soldiers for the Spartan-3 Project, taking in traumatized war orphans and turning them into expendable killing machines.

Traviss characterizing her as Josef Mengele is completely missing the point. Just as Traviss tried to characterize the Jedi as slave-masters over the Clone Army in Star Wars (when in fact, the slave-master of the clones was the Republic, since the Republic can order them to kill the Jedi at any time) so too does Traviss lay the blame on Catherine Halsey for the horrors of the Spartan-2 project, when the blame for that should be rightfully placed on ONI as an organization and Admiral Parangosky in particular, since as the head ONI spook, she'd have to sign off on EVERYTHING the Spartan-2 Project was doing and it was ONI's project from the start.

Indeed, ONI's whole speciality is intelligence. Having a CIVILIAN DOCTOR get away with things without them knowing is bullshit, when they probably bugged every piece of technology she lays her hands on at work. But for some reason, Admiral Parangosky is blaming Halsey for all the evils of the Spartan-2 program. Even though as the leader of ONI, she'd know all about them and if she wanted to, she could have stopped Halsey at any time. So either she's a colossal incompetent who can't keep track of her agents' actions, or she's a hypocrite scapegoating someone for the evils her own people did.

And of course, how Glasslands handles the Covenant is even worse. The Sangheili/Elites, were an advanced alien species who already had their own space flight capabilities before meeting the Prophets. The idea that their technology would be falling apart without the Prophets is nonsense, when they've had a successful interstellar empire before the Prophets even showed up. The fact that they've been living with the Prophets and working all this advanced technology for centuries should mean that even if the Prophets leave, the Sangheili would still know how to work this tech, since they've been using it for centuries. That, and the Sangheili already had simmering mistrust of the Prophets slowly bubbling up that exploded into full-scale civil war in Halo 2, so they wouldn't just leave all the tech stuff to be done by the Prophets, they'd learn how to maintain, build, and repair their advanced tech on the side, because they suspect that the Prophets might turn on them one day. Hence why the Prophets' guards are all Sangheili, and once the Prophets dismissed the Sangheili honor guards, the Sangheili were deeply offended. On the surface, it seemed like a violation of their ancient pact, but in reality, it's because the Sangheili can no longer keep tabs on the Prophets and their doings.

Instead, the Sangheili come off as more brutish than even the Jiralhanae/Brutes from the Halo trilogy, acting as if they were animals, and that portrayal extended to Halo 4, where they felt more like Brutes rather than Elites. In the classic trilogy, in Halo Wars, in Halo Reach and ODST, the Sangheili were a cultured, elegant species who mixed ferocity in battle with elegance and grace. In the new stuff, they make the Brutes look like Victorian England when it comes to civilization. All because Glasslands portrayed many Sangheili as human-hating freaks who think starting a war with them again is cool, and the only thing stopping them from attacking the humans is their lack of tech due to the Prophets disappearing, which is bullshit. At the end of Halo 3, they have hundreds, perhaps even thousands of functional Covenant ships, so if they wanted to, they can turn Earth into a glass parking lot in an afternoon.

And since the Sangheili hate the humans and want them dead, ONI comes to our rescue by starting a civil war against the Arbiter to destabilize them further so they can't be a threat. This is complete bullshit when Halo 2 and 3's side materials suggested that some Sangheili were becoming more sympathetic towards humans, questioning why they should be killed, and of course, ONI starting a war against a pro-human Sangheili warlord using human-hating Sangheili upstarts makes no sense. What if he loses, and the Sangheili turn fully anti-human and wage war on mankind again? What if the Arbiter wins, but finds out? Say goodbye to our only potential ally, and hello to an embargo or even another war. Not only does ONI leadership blaming Halsey for the evils of the Spartan-2 program make no sense, but their actions against the Sangheili also make no sense either. I can understand the idea of some Sangheili hating humans and opposing the Arbiter's peace with them because they see the humans as a potential threat, or they lost loved ones fighting humanity, and that could start a civil war with Sangheili like the Arbiter who want peace with humans, but the logical course of action for ONI is to then support the Arbiter from the shadows and even assign surviving Spartans to his army so as to make sure he wins, by capitalizing on the fear Spartans incite among Covenant ranks.

Also, Glasslands has Brutes on Sangheilios. Yes, you heard that right. They also say that some Brutes remained loyal to their Elite Shipmasters, too. Even though Halo 2 showed us that those two races HATED EACH OTHER even before the civil war within the Covenant. As if the demonization of Halsey and the degrading of the Sangheili wasn't enough. At most, I can understand some Brutes not hating the Elites and just killing them because "good soldiers follow orders." But basically, in Halo 2, not only did the Prophet of Truth declare the Brutes to be the new military leaders of the Covenant, but he also had them overthrow the Elites. So even the Brutes who didn't have a seething hate of the Sangheili would still have betrayed and attacked them because those are orders coming from up-top. And most Sangheili, due to mutual hatred of the Brutes and the possibility that their Brutes might turn on them, would most likely try to kill the Brutes on their ships too. Outside of maybe a small number of cases where some Brutes have befriended their Sangheili shipmasters, most, if not all Brutes would have turned on their Sangheili co-workers and attempted to kill them, not just because of long-standing racial hatred, but also because orders are orders. The entire Covenant descended upon humanity and tried to kill them because they were ordered to. Are we really gonna believe that Brutes won't turn on Elites even when they were ordered to do so by the highest authority in the Covenant?

Karen Traviss doesn't bother reading the lore for the stuff she works on. She didn't read up on Star Wars' lore, so she portrayed the Jedi as military idiots who treat the clones like slaves and can't fight a war properly, when the rest of the SW Expanded Universe shows us that the Jedi have been fighting wars for the past 1000 years before the Clone Wars AND they treated the clone troopers under them with great care, to the point where many clones had reservations about killing the Jedi in Order 66, and some even went rogue and supported the Jedi, refusing to carry out Order 66 and becoming wanted men alongside their Jedi Generals. But you wouldn't know that if you only read Traviss' SW books, where the Jedi were always wrong and the Mandalorians were always right. Now take that scenario, replace the Jedi with Dr. Halsey and the Sangheili, and replace the Mandalorians with ONI. Now you're getting close to the ball-park of how screwed-up Traviss' views of the Halo-verse are.
 
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Welcome to the insanity of Karen Traviss.

Just when I thought I've escaped this woman after engaging her fans in a month-long debate.

To begin with, this is the same woman who denounces fans of the Jedi Order, describing said fans as having the same kind of thinking as the Nazis. If that doesn't set off your alarm bells right off the bat, I don't know what will.

As I said before, Catherine Halsey had no real power over ONI. At most, she was merely working for them as a scientist, making sure that the Spartan-2 Project worked. ONI was already pulling off super-soldier projects, and if it wasn't for Halsey, the project would have likely failed and those kids would have died for nothing. The UNSC won't have Spartan-3s or 4s, because they both are derivative of the Spartan-2 project and relied upon data and information from the previous project. ONI was gonna kidnap kids to make super-soldiers anyways; Halsey tried to mitigate the damage and tried to take care of the Spartans as best she can. The fact that she was one of the few people who was wracked with guilt over the project and the fact that she actually gave a damn about them to the point where she acts as if the Spartans were her kids goes to show that she was one of the few bright spots for the candidates of the Spartan-2 Project.

Traviss characterizing her as Josef Mengele is completely missing the point. Just as Traviss tried to characterize the Jedi as slave-masters over the Clone Army in Star Wars (when in fact, the slave-master of the clones was the Republic, since the Republic can order them to kill the Jedi at any time) so too does Traviss lay the blame on Catherine Halsey for the horrors of the Spartan-2 project, when the blame for that should be rightfully placed on ONI as an organization and Admiral Parangosky in particular, since as the head ONI spook, she'd have to sign off on EVERYTHING the Spartan-2 Project was doing and it was ONI's project from the start.

Indeed, ONI's whole speciality is intelligence. Having a CIVILIAN DOCTOR get away with things without them knowing is bullshit, when they probably bugged every piece of technology she lays her hands on at work. But for some reason, Admiral Parangosky is blaming Halsey for all the evils of the Spartan-2 program. Even though as the leader of ONI, she'd know all about them and if she wanted to, she could have stopped Halsey at any time. So either she's a colossal incompetent who can't keep track of her agents' actions, or she's a hypocrite scapegoating someone for the evils her own people did.

And of course, how Glasslands handles the Covenant is even worse. The Sangheili/Elites, were an advanced alien species who already had their own space flight capabilities before meeting the Prophets. The idea that their technology would be falling apart without the Prophets is nonsense, when they've had a successful interstellar empire before the Prophets even showed up. The fact that they've been living with the Prophets and working all this advanced technology for centuries should mean that even if the Prophets leave, the Sangheili would still know how to work this tech, since they've been using it for centuries. That, and the Sangheili already had simmering mistrust of the Prophets slowly bubbling up that exploded into full-scale civil war in Halo 2, so they wouldn't just leave all the tech stuff to be done by the Prophets, they'd learn how to maintain, build, and repair their advanced tech on the side, because they suspect that the Prophets might turn on them one day. Hence why the Prophets' guards are all Sangheili, and once the Prophets dismissed the Sangheili honor guards, the Sangheili were deeply offended. On the surface, it seemed like a violation of their ancient pact, but in reality, it's because the Sangheili can no longer keep tabs on the Prophets and their doings.

Instead, the Sangheili come off as more brutish than even the Jiralhanae/Brutes from the Halo trilogy, acting as if they were animals, and that portrayal extended to Halo 4, where they felt more like Brutes rather than Elites. In the classic trilogy, in Halo Wars, in Halo Reach and ODST, the Sangheili were a cultured, elegant species who mixed ferocity in battle with elegance and grace. In the new stuff, they make the Brutes look like Victorian England when it comes to civilization. All because Glasslands portrayed many Sangheili as human-hating freaks who think starting a war with them again is cool, and the only thing stopping them from attacking the humans is their lack of tech due to the Prophets disappearing, which is bullshit. At the end of Halo 3, they have hundreds, perhaps even thousands of functional Covenant ships, so if they wanted to, they can turn Earth into a glass parking lot in an afternoon.

And since the Sangheili hate the humans and want them dead, ONI comes to our rescue by starting a civil war against the Arbiter to destabilize them further so they can't be a threat. This is complete bullshit when Halo 2 and 3's side materials suggested that some Sangheili were becoming more sympathetic towards humans, questioning why they should be killed, and of course, ONI starting a war against a pro-human Sangheili warlord using human-hating Sangheili upstarts makes no sense. What if he loses, and the Sangheili turn fully anti-human and wage war on mankind again? What if the Arbiter wins, but finds out? Say goodbye to our only potential ally, and hello to an embargo or even another war. Not only does ONI leadership blaming Halsey for the evils of the Spartan-2 program make no sense, but their actions against the Sangheili also make no sense either. I can understand the idea of some Sangheili hating humans and opposing the Arbiter's peace with them because they see the humans as a potential threat, or they lost loved ones fighting humanity, and that could start a civil war with Sangheili like the Arbiter who want peace with humans, but the logical course of action for ONI is to then support the Arbiter from the shadows and even assign surviving Spartans to his army so as to make sure he wins, by capitalizing on the fear Spartans incite among Covenant ranks.

Also, Glasslands has Brutes on Sangheilios. Yes, you heard that right. They also say that some Brutes remained loyal to their Elite Shipmasters, too. Even though Halo 2 showed us that those two races HATED EACH OTHER even before the civil war within the Covenant. As if the demonization of Halsey and the degrading of the Sangheili wasn't enough. At most, I can understand some Brutes not hating the Elites and just killing them because "good soldiers follow orders." But basically, in Halo 2, not only did the Prophet of Truth declare the Brutes to be the new military leaders of the Covenant, but he also had them overthrow the Elites. So even the Brutes who didn't have a seething hate of the Sangheili would still have betrayed and attacked them because those are orders coming from up-top. And most Sangheili, due to mutual hatred of the Brutes and the possibility that their Brutes might turn on them, would most likely try to kill the Brutes on their ships too. Outside of maybe a small number of cases where some Brutes have befriended their Sangheili shipmasters, most, if not all Brutes would have turned on their Sangheili co-workers and attempted to kill them, not just because of long-standing racial hatred, but also because orders are orders. The entire Covenant descended upon humanity and tried to kill them because they were ordered to. Are we really gonna believe that Brutes won't turn on Elites even when they were ordered to by the highest authority in the Covenant?

Karen Traviss doesn't bother reading the lore for the stuff she works on. She didn't read up on Star Wars' lore, so she portrayed the Jedi as military idiots who treat the clones like slaves and can't fight a war properly, when the rest of the SW Expanded Universe shows us that the Jedi have been fighting wars for the past 1000 years before the Clone Wars AND they treated the clone troopers under them with great care, to the point where many clones had reservations about killing the Jedi in Order 66, and some even went rogue and supported the Jedi, refusing to carry out Order 66 and becoming wanted men alongside their Jedi Generals. But you wouldn't know that if you only read Traviss' SW books, where the Jedi were always wrong and the Mandalorians were always right. Now take that scenario, replace the Jedi with Dr. Halsey and the Sangheili, and replace the Mandalorians with ONI. Now you're getting close to the ball-park of how screwed-up Traviss' views of the Halo-verse are.

Post-Bungie ONI is so competent and damn-near psychic that they know what the San’Shyuum have for breakfast, and yet so incompetent that they don’t even know what they’re spending their own money on. Parangosky was going all “You lied about the Flash Clones, Halsey,” and it’s like, no, she didn’t lie. Instead, the author made Parangosky retarded.

Also, there’s the hilarious juxtaposition of ONI moralizing about the awfulness of the SPARTAN-II program while also doing the Elites dirty at the same exact fucking time, Jesus Christ. Not only did Traviss use her OCs in her glorified Halo fanfic as her unbearably smug mouthpieces, she also had those same mouthpieces acting immorally and not even really commenting on it or feeling conflicted about it at all.

I haven’t read any of her Star Wars novels, but I’ve heard the horror stories, and how she has a tendency to depict Mandalorians as egalitarian and wholesome instead of the ruthless meritocrats they actually are.

Glasslands was so bad, I haven’t read a Halo novel in close to a decade. :(
 

I’ve seen that interview before. It’s just as appalling of a read now as it was back then. Karen Traviss is either deluded or dishonest, or both.

KT: First and foremost, I’m still a news journalist at heart.

At this point, alarm bells should be going off in one’s head. Authors of prose are not journalists and should not see themselves as such. They are not commenting on worlds. They are creating them.

I want to start from scratch, ask my questions, and get answers. I want to be objective, tell the truth, and let the interviewees speak for themselves, without twisting their words or injecting my own opinions—to see the world through their eyes.

This is the exact opposite of what Karen Traviss does. Her characters are her hand puppets, with no will of their own whatsoever.

So I decided which existing characters I wanted to follow, and looked again at the raw data—the absolute neutral basic facts, i.e. what they did and when they did it. Then I rebuilt the characters using psychological profiling techniques. The result is that you’ll see characters you think you know portrayed differently, perhaps too differently for some fans’ tastes, but I’ve done what i always do—build or rebuild fully realised characters who behave like real people, place them in the environment, and then follow where they lead, seeing the situation and the events through their eyes. They won’t always see the event the same way and there will be contradictions—the reader has to do some work and make their mind up about who they believe. No easy answers, no heroes or villains—just people, even if those people are aliens. Make up your own mind.

Translation: She writes existing characters extremely OOC and expects you to eat shit and die if you don’t like it.

I think fans will find a very different Mendez to the one they’ve seen before. This is a CPO, and if you’re navy (as I am!) then you know the power of the Chief. And this guy is hardcore. He trains SBS/ SEALS, effectively. He certainly won’t wilt in the face of Catherine Halsey, believe me. He doesn’t give a damn about her Ph.Ds and he’s as stained by the Spartan programme as she is. Then there’s Halsey herself. Boy, as a journalist, I’d love to have interviewed a real individual like her. I have to see the world as she sees it, to be her for the duration of her point of view scenes, and getting into her head means that the logic and justification that makes sense to her must also make sense to me, however much I feel repelled by it when I step outside her head. Not even a serial killer sees himself (or herself – let’s not be sexist) as evil. Their world makes perfect sense to them. I don’t inject my opinions or steer readers. The joy of writing for me is to explore other minds totally unlike my own. Sometimes it’s fun, sometimes it’s unsettling and even unpleasant, but it’s always new. Maybe Halsey is right and she’s a patriot, maybe she’s a monster like Dr. Mengele. It’s your call.

Karen Traviss’s one-sided depiction of Halsey offers absolutely no room for interpretation whatsoever. Halsey is a cartoon villain, and not even a smart one. She took one of the smartest people in the series and turned her into Dr. Heinz fucking Doofenshmirtz.

And then there’s Margaret Parangosky. She’s solid gold for a writer like me. I couldn’t believe nobody had developed her before. A 92-year-old serving admiral who’s also the chief spook? Damn, she’s got to be one tough old bird. She and Halsey, alpha female to alpha female – one of the most rewarding scenes I’ve ever “reported.”

Rewarding for Traviss, maybe. For the audience? Torture.

Oh, and Lucy. Lucy the Spartan III. I’m big on dialogue, but how do I tackle a character who can’t speak? Read the book and find out…

By making her into a such an exceptional mental case that there’s no way she could possibly function as a soldier. Lucy would break down and have retarded PTSD episodes or whatever from the littlest of things, and they still let her wear power armor instead of giving her a padded room.
 
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