Game of Thrones Thread

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I'm not even a fan of Sanderson's writing and am amazed that Martin thought he had any latitude to be teasing and taking shots at another author's personal beliefs and professional work like that, in a public setting and to his face, while Sanderson is purely respectful in contrast. It's just so randomly and needlessly mean-spirited. It's like George never got his chance to be a bully when he was a kid, and now that he has just enough crest to his fame left to ride, he doesn't want to miss any more opportunities to pick on someone. Hard to feel that a little public humiliation in turn is undeserved.
 
GRRM took part in a worldcon panel along with Brandon Sanderson among other people.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=rCiQWbjPtYIGEORGE RR MARTIN WORLDCON PANEL 2025 FULL.mp4

This event is most notable because some troon ( I think the same that posted the video) told George R.R. Martin to his face that he's going to die soon and started to ask whether Brandon Sanderson would finish his books and everyone started to boo. Sanderson was right next to him.

I didn't bother to watch the whole thing since it's very long and of low audio quality but there are some claims made by some people that GRRM had been rude during the event and passively-aggressively mocking Sanderson earlier. It is unknown if that person was a pissed off fan of Sanderson or not, but it might be possible.

Some claims:
- He often interrupted others, and talked over the women specifically.
-George was telling a story of how smart a child he was that he knew Jesus didn't exist at 8 years old and how stupid Christians are, Sanderson stared down and his face got a little red. (1:08:16 timemark)
- Brandon got asked a question about hard magic systems and how he creates them. George jumped in and went on a ten minute rant about how hard magic systems are dumb, he hates them, no one wants to read them, and you're a questionable author if you write them.
- Brandon's successful business (Dragonsteel) and kickstarters got brought up a couple times and George got all worked up. Said authors shouldn't be expected to do social media or do anything other than write. And also said some things like "just because someone does a kickstarter doesn't mean they can write or that the book is worth reading"
- George directly asked Brandon, "you're Mormon right? How do you deal with that?" And it came across with a really blunt and snarky tone. This was a few questions after he said Christians were stupid and Jesus was make believe.
GRRM is a fat cunt. Fuck that pedophile.
 
We don't know that for sure. What we do know is that GRRM gave an outline of his ending to Dan and Dave, and Season 8 was the result.

For all we know, it could be Euron who burns the capital after using a dragonbinder horn to steal a dragon from Dany. Burning a capital city with a dragon is right up a pirate's alley, especially if it's a pirate with apocalyptic visions. Or maybe, he's just a nut, and he can't actually steal dragons with that horn.
If you are aware of Cushing Library notes, then it should be clear that the show ending is likely to be based on GRRM's outline more than we suspect. It's very his style to just write down endings for characters without any explanation of how they went there.

For example: In one scrapped chapter found from his notes, it went for a few pages until the next one just said "Victarion dies" and that was the end of the chapter. If he gave similar notes to D&D (Bran becomes King; Jon kills Dany, etc) with zero explanation then no wonder it looked like such a cluster fuck. Dany burning KL is definitely from GRRM, however since the fat fuck didn't elaborate, D&D simply decided to make it looks like this. Similarly, there is literally no way that D&D made Bran the king of their own volition, they always hated magic.

Dumb and Dumber have numerous flaws but it can be at least said that as long as they had the material, they did adapt it "relatively" well. It was only when they run out of GRRM's books that they decided to do whatever the fuck they wanted as Martin likely didn't even bother to explain his plans for most of the characters (probably because he didn't have any yet).
-D&D: What's your plan with Blackfish?
-GRRM: Dunno yet lol
-D&D: Okay, we'll just kill him then
One could argue that they still had some material from the Feast and the Dance, however both of these books mostly just needlessly introduced many more characters without tying any of the knots, so no wonder they decided to fuck it and just cut it off. To make things worse, GRRM is a lazy fuck and stopped contributing to the show after Season 4 and I doubt he kept much contact with D&D afterwards. He more or less expects others to figure out his genius master plan by themselves (and D&D were never that smart to begin with) while he's busy flying around the world and enjoying his fame.
It's like George never got his chance to be a bully when he was a kid, and now that he has just enough crest to his fame left to ride, he doesn't want to miss any more opportunities to pick on someone. Hard to feel that a little public humiliation in turn is undeserved.
GRRM was barely even known of until Game of Thrones exploded in popularity and he suddenly became hailed as the American Tolkien. He tried his whole life to became famous and only became one in his sixties, as an old, done man. He has a mindset similar to Rekieta: he feels that he wasted his youth and now wants to indulge all his vices that he couldn't do when he was younger.
 
I'm not even a fan of Sanderson's writing and am amazed that Martin thought he had any latitude to be teasing and taking shots at another author's personal beliefs and professional work like that, in a public setting and to his face, while Sanderson is purely respectful in contrast. It's just so randomly and needlessly mean-spirited. It's like George never got his chance to be a bully when he was a kid, and now that he has just enough crest to his fame left to ride, he doesn't want to miss any more opportunities to pick on someone. Hard to feel that a little public humiliation in turn is undeserved.
He's basically one of those young, 2010s skeptics in an old man's body. Attacking another man's faith, taking advantage of his fellow author's professional nature, being mean-spirited towards religion, having low-IQ takes such as denying the existence of Jesus Christ, a fact that was well proven to the world, it goes to show that the supposed genius of GRRM is just the fans attributing smart things to his gibberish. If anything, the show did a better job of conveying the story due to the actors' charisma and being serious about their roles.

If you are aware of Cushing Library notes, then it should be clear that the show ending is likely to be based on GRRM's outline more than we suspect. It's very his style to just write down endings for characters without any explanation of how they went there.

For example: In one scrapped chapter found from his notes, it went for a few pages until the next one just said "Victarion dies" and that was the end of the chapter. If he gave similar notes to D&D (Bran becomes King; Jon kills Dany, etc) with zero explanation then no wonder it looked like such a cluster fuck. Dany burning KL is definitely from GRRM, however since the fat fuck didn't elaborate, D&D simply decided to make it looks like this. Similarly, there is literally no way that D&D made Bran the king of their own volition, they always hated magic.
That probably explains the delay in the books. The S8 ending was done in the spirit of GRRM'S writing, and the people hated it. It was the canary in the coal mine for Martin, and the poor reception to it caused him to rethink how he would end the novels. Throngs of book fans proclaiming that GRRM would never end the books like that has GRRM on edge; if they realized that it was his planned ending for the books, he will lose whatever clout he has with them left.

Dumb and Dumber have numerous flaws but it can be at least said that as long as they had the material, they did adapt it "relatively" well. It was only when they run out of GRRM's books that they decided to do whatever the fuck they wanted as Martin likely didn't even bother to explain his plans for most of the characters (probably because he didn't have any yet).
-D&D: What's your plan with Blackfish?
-GRRM: Dunno yet lol
-D&D: Okay, we'll just kill him then
One could argue that they still had some material from the Feast and the Dance, however both of these books mostly just needlessly introduced many more characters without tying any of the knots, so no wonder they decided to fuck it and just cut it off. To make things worse, GRRM is a lazy fuck and stopped contributing to the show after Season 4 and I doubt he kept much contact with D&D afterwards. He more or less expects others to figure out his genius master plan by themselves (and D&D were never that smart to begin with) while he's busy flying around the world and enjoying his fame.
That was the excuse that many GRRM book fans had. The idea that there were still more books and DnD had enough material for ten seasons. GRRM said something similar. However, most of that material is the literary equivalent of anime filler, and has little to do with the main story. If they were to be adapted, people would just get lost and lose interest. God knows enough anime fans dropped off their series of choice when it gives them way too much filler. Just imagine TV show fans.

At least, the way the show ended, it was quick and memorable, which is better than a prolonged death through people losing interest at a show filled with filler. And with GRRM not finishing the books, DnD would've eventually run out of material anyways. So GRRM's "genius writing" would've been revealed as the overrated stretch that it was, with plot holes big enough to fly a dragon through.

GRRM was barely even known of until Game of Thrones exploded in popularity and he suddenly became hailed as the American Tolkien. He tried his whole life to became famous and only became one in his sixties, as an old, done man. He has a mindset similar to Rekieta: he feels that he wasted his youth and now wants to indulge all his vices that he couldn't do when he was younger.
He's not emotionally or intellectually mature enough to be the next Tolkien. He's more a mix of a political thriller author with a strong influence from people like JJ Abrams and that whole "mystery box" nonsense. And along with that comes a lot of plot holes that logical people wouldn't have left unfilled.

Like, why would Littlefinger advise Ned against starting a war with the Lannisters if he wants the War of the Five Kings to kick off? If Ned listened to him, there would be no war, just the Lannisters and the Starks ruling and silencing any dissent.

Why would Jaime Lannister not tell Tywin and Robert about the Wildfire nuke that Aerys II was about to set off under the city, especially since it could still be there? Tywin and Robert would've believed him, especially since Robert hates Aerys and Tywin knows how crazy Aerys was.

Why did Tywin kill off Rhaegar's kids when putting them on the throne and marrying them to his children would've better served his cause, especially with the Rebel army tired after fighting in the Trident and the Lannister/Reach armies still fresh and ready for war? Between the two of those kingdoms, they'd have enough men to repel the rebel forces, especially since fighting Rhaegar and the Dornish would've taxed them to the limit. Tywin could secure a stronger position by having Cersei or Jaime marry Rhaegar's kids with Elia Martell, and in the process, gain Dorne as an ally for making Elia Martell the Dowager Queen.

All of these plot holes show me that GRRM is not the master storyteller that the book fans proclaim him to be. He struck gold with the first three books and the background materials, but the latter two books, while having some good ideas, got so bogged down in plot that trying to tie it all up is a herculean task I wouldn't wish on my worst foe. And no matter what ending GRRM opts for, it won't be the big, cathartic payoff that his fans were waiting for. More like something similar to the show, just boring and more convoluted. Especially when Martin isn't a big believer in monarchy or religion, so don't expect him to end it with a good ruler sitting in the throne after completing some prophecy.
 
Why would Jaime Lannister not tell Tywin and Robert about the Wildfire nuke that Aerys II was about to set off under the city, especially since it could still be there? Tywin and Robert would've believed him, especially since Robert hates Aerys and Tywin knows how crazy Aerys was.
This is probably the most idiotic plot point in the series. That Jaime allows his entire family and a million citizens to sleep on top of a nuclear bomb like Megaton in Fallout 3. Just baffling and mind numbing. There are entire sequences where Jaimie is having mental breakdowns over Tommen possibly ingesting poisoned food and requiring members of the Kingsgaurd to test every single item prepared by the chefs. But then Tommen sleeps with 200,000 lbs of liquid explosives a mere dozen feet from his head.

I laughed when Dany's dragons were setting off caches of wildfire in the HBO show. They didn't think to clear that stuff out of the city and store it on a ship anchored at sea? Or in an abandoned cave or mine? The smallfolk see the Great Sept blown up and forget the next day and go back to normal like nothing at all happened. "You hear about the Great Sept explosion?" "Yeah that's old news let's go to the Flea Bottom and then see some jousting".
Why did Tywin kill off Rhaegar's kids when putting them on the throne and marrying them to his children would've better served his cause, especially with the Rebel army tired after fighting in the Trident and the Lannister/Reach armies still fresh and ready for war?
This is explained in the books. Tywin tried to marry his children to the Targs. Both Jaimie and Cersei were turned down. So out of revenge he kills all of the Targs. Robert also approved of it seeing as how he wanted Dany killed over a decade later. It's heavily implied that the majority of people hated the Targs and the Maesters especially hated the dragons.

So this isn't a bad plot point from the books. And Robert and Tywin were both correct that allowing the Targs to live would just make more rebellion. They added lined to the HBO show from GRRM where Robert and others talk about how terrifying it was for the smallfolks to live during the times of live dragons. And how it would be better for the Targaryen girl and her brother to just die from an assassin to avoid a huge war.
All of these plot holes show me that GRRM is not the master storyteller that the book fans proclaim him to be.
The plot holes are not even as bad as the unanswered the questions. The mystery box storytelling makes this series impossible to recommend.
He struck gold with the first three books.
He struck gold with the HBO show. The first three books have a lot of wasted chapters and plots as well and don't really hold up like people imagine.
 
This is probably the most idiotic plot point in the series. That Jaime allows his entire family and a million citizens to sleep on top of a nuclear bomb like Megaton in Fallout 3. Just baffling and mind numbing. There are entire sequences where Jaimie is having mental breakdowns over Tommen possibly ingesting poisoned food and requiring members of the Kingsgaurd to test every single item prepared by the chefs. But then Tommen sleeps with 200,000 lbs of liquid explosives a mere dozen feet from his head.
That, and the people in charge would believe Jaime if he told the truth. Tywin would stand by his beloved son's testimony, and Robert hates Aerys. They can then authorize a search party to sweep the city sewers, which will then lead to them finding the wildfire caches.

I laughed when Dany's dragons were setting off caches of wildfire in the HBO show. They didn't think to clear that stuff out of the city and store it on a ship anchored at sea? Or in an abandoned cave or mine? The smallfolk see the Great Sept blown up and forget the next day and go back to normal like nothing at all happened. "You hear about the Great Sept explosion?" "Yeah that's old news let's go to the Flea Bottom and then see some jousting".
They spent as much time thinking about those wildfire caches as GRRM did in the books. How appropriate.

This is explained in the books. Tywin tried to marry his children to the Targs. Both Jaimie and Cersei were turned down. So out of revenge he kills all of the Targs. Robert also approved of it seeing as how he wanted Dany killed over a decade later. It's heavily implied that the majority of people hated the Targs and the Maesters especially hated the dragons.
Last I checked, GRRM made a point of saying that the people don't give a rat's ass who's in charge so long as they're left alone. If anything, the smallfolk prospered during the time of the dragons, as they kept warfare between the Seven Kingdoms into a manageable minimum.

That, and it was the Mad King who turned down Tywin's request for a marriage; Rhaegar always had a pragmatic attitude towards Tywin, and in some lore bits, implied to Jaime that he was going to deal with the Mad King once the Rebels were dealt with.

That, and if Tywin puppeteered Elia's kids, he'd have a stronger grasp on the throne; he can groom Elia and Rhaegar's kids into becoming better rulers, as opposed to Robert who was unpredictable and who was a better fighter than a leader.

The plot holes are not even as bad as the unanswered the questions. The mystery box storytelling makes this series impossible to recommend.
That, and the fans will always overestimate what the payoff will be. It happened with JJ Abrams, it'll happen with GRRM. His final answer will never be as good as what the fans are thinking.

He struck gold with the HBO show. The first three books have a lot of wasted chapters and plots as well and don't really hold up like people imagine.
People will forever remember the first four seasons of the show. The book series as a whole is slowly being forgotten due to the lack of payoff due to the series not getting finished.
 
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