UN Former SS soldier will not face charges for participating in massacre, only for hate speech while talking about it. - Words are literal violence. Actual violence? Consequence free.

Former SS soldier is charged with hate speech for saying victims of the massacre he participated in deserved it.

Prosecutors in the German state of Lower Saxony said Wednesday that they have charged an ex-SS guard for questioning the extent of the Holocaust and offensive comments he made about the victims of a massacre of civilians in France during World War II.

Karl M. admitted last year in an interview with German TV broadcaster ARD to being part of an SS troop that massacred 86 villagers in the town of Ascq in northern France in April 1944. He denied shooting at the victims, some of whom were as young as 15.

But prosecutors charged him with hate speech and slandering the memory of the deceased by claiming that the Ascq victims were responsible for their own deaths and separately questioning whether the Nazis had killed six million Jews during the Holocaust.

Denying or belittling the Holocaust is a crime in Germany.




Karl M. was one of the SS soldiers involved in the massacre of 86 people in Villeneuve-d'Ascq in North France

Karl M. will not be charged for his participation in the massacre of Ascq villagers, after it was ruled he could not be found guilty of the same crime twice. The former soldier was sentenced to death in abstentia by a French court in 1949 for his role in the mass slaughter.

He could face five years in jail if convicted. Multiple ex-SS soldiers have faced trial in recent years over their actions during the Nazi era.

It’s illegal in Germany to deny or belittle the holocaust.

The really disturbing thing here is that he’s previously been tried for the actual massacre. He was sentenced to death in absentia by a court in France after the war and can’t be charged twice with the same crime. So for the actual crime and killings he won’t ever be punished.!

While I can see why they’re trying to lock him up any way they can, and he’s clearly a Very Bad Person, there seems to be something horribly wrong in a world where you can get off Scot free for killing a bunch of people, but jailed for words.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-former-ss-soldier-charged-with-hate-speech/a-49729998

http://archive.is/DhgwZ

Another case of using a horrible person to put in place laws which are actually rather sinister.

 

[UQ 770]

Is there a reason these former Third Reich randos don't move to a country less psychotically broken about WW2? Like, say, literally anywhere else? It seems pretty obvious at this point that they'll inevitably be dragged for something, anything that a random prosecutor can find or make up.

They probably sprout cults of Neo-Nazi punks around them. Germany's Department of Cultural Guilt spawns disaffected kids on a regular basis who idolize people like the SS as honorable nationalists who were just trying to do their jobs when in reality the SS were total narcissistic gangsters who lived lives of debauchery and luxury. Even in their old age they're back to gathering orbiters and talking their shit up even though they lost the war and sucked every time they engaged an enemy not armed with sticks and rocks. Skorzeny not withstanding.

 

[Stoneheart]

the whole affair was a witchhunt... The guy was part of an antiterror unit and they killed a bunch of Terrorists.
He did nothing wrong.

 

[Bassomatic]

Surprised no edgelord has defended him yet. Any bets?

The only thing Hitler did wrong was lose!

Now give me rebbit up boats.

As said well and before, the SS were at times down right sadists, rabble, and trained forces depending on the year and fanboyism. There's also good people in bad groups, and bad people in good groups etc

The SS just got to be poster children, for better for worse when it comes to propganda and history.

 

[Clop]

I don't see why not. Trying him for mean words is transparently an end run around that kind of red tape. I'd respect Germany a tiny bit more if they were just honest about it.

You'd think it was just an excuse, but Germany is very authoritarian when people flirt with any of the Nazi ideologies or deny the Holocaust. He's not a special case. It is a stupid speech law born from shame and fear that this shit will repeat, ironically making Germany seem fascistic in the process.

I wouldn't even shrug if someone shot him on the street (and certainly wouldn't testify) because he's absolute scum that lucked the fuck out of a deserved execution, but I'm not going to sell out double jeopardy for a chance for one Nazi to get his comeuppance. Civil rights are more important than petty revenge. It's better than nothing that he's still stupid enough to run his dumb mouth to get in trouble with the German authorities.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

You'd think it was just an excuse, but Germany is very authoritarian when people flirt with any of the Nazi ideologies or deny the Holocaust. He's not a special case. It is a stupid speech law born from shame and fear that this shit will repeat, ironically making Germany seem fascistic in the process.

"In order to avoid the unfathomable evil of a despotic, authoritarian, thought-policing regime, we must become a despotic, authoritarian, thought-policing regime." Germany was a mistake.

 

[Syaoran Li]

the whole affair was a witchhunt... The guy was part of a death squad and they killed a bunch of political dissidents.
He did some real fucked up shit.

Fixed that for you, pal.

I mean, this guy's crimes were committed in France, not the Eastern Front. You can't even use the "fighting communism" defense for this guy's actions.

Don't get me wrong, Germany's self-destructive cultural guilt and inability to let WWII fucking go is downright retarded but the guy committed an act that would be considered a war crime by most objective standards. The only issue at hand here is that the German government is charging him with hate speech instead of actual deeds of criminal violence.

From what I can tell, they can't charge him with the actual crime due to a legal technicality, but since Germany runs the EU, couldn't they just extradite him to France to stand trial instead of incessantly virtue-signalling and giving the far-right more material for their recruitment efforts?

 

[HoneyBadgersOfOats]

Treating "hate" speech as if it's worse than war crimes. Europe does shit that doesn't make sense to me, like the worst shooting internationally happened in Norway, and
Anders Breivik will step outside a free man in my life time despite killing mostly kids.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Don't get me wrong, Germany's self-destructive cultural guilt and inability to let WWII fucking go is downright exceptional but the guy committed an act that would be considered a war crime by most objective standards.

"War crime" and "objective standards" don't go in the same sentence. Especially when the war in question is WW2- the only crime in that one was losing.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

Is there a reason these former Third Reich randos don't move to a country less psychotically broken about WW2? Like, say, literally anywhere else? It seems pretty obvious at this point that they'll inevitably be dragged for something, anything that a random prosecutor can find or make up.

I would assume a mix of need for expensive healthcare, stubborness and the feeling that they didn't do anything wrong.
Might be worthwhile to point out that this guy isn't sentenced for saying something vaguely mean 25 years ago in his own living room while he was alone, he's being sentenced for constantly doing this while directly riling up his fanboys and the smart thing to avoid any legal shenanigans would have been to just stop talking.

You'd think it was just an excuse, but Germany is very authoritarian when people flirt with any of the Nazi ideologies or deny the Holocaust. He's not a special case. It is a stupid speech law born from shame and fear that this shit will repeat, ironically making Germany seem fascistic in the process.

and

"In order to avoid the unfathomable evil of a despotic, authoritarian, thought-policing regime, we must become a despotic, authoritarian, thought-policing regime." Germany was a mistake.

Technically, this was implemented and enforced by the US occupation forces and administration after WW2, so ... y'know...

As said well and before, the SS were at times down right sadists, rabble, and trained forces depending on the year and fanboyism. There's also good people in bad groups, and bad people in good groups etc

Are you for real?

Edit:

The actually entertaining thing in this thread is watching people go "Gee, Germany is such a libtard pussy shithole that can't stop flagellating itself", but I'm pretty sure if Germany does something perceived as vaguely right-wing, the same people will instantly go "Gee, Germany is still overrun with fucking Nazis, we should carpet bomb the whole place until they learn from their crimes in ww2". It happened before.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Yeah germany I totally buy your horror over the SS, as your fucking leader is former stazi.

Just fucking douse yourself in gasoline and shoot yourself in a ditch germany, let's not have another world war over your stupidity.

 

[RetardedCat]

Surprised no edgelord has defended him yet. Any bets?

Multiple ex-SS soldiers have faced trial in recent years over their actions during the Nazi era.

I mean, I'll defend them without question.

I don't get why we're still trying to get guys who's only crime was being on the other side of a war 60 years ago.
I'd get it if this was the 50s or 60s. But it's already been over 60 years since the war ended, can't we leave these guys alone. They were just doing their jobs, it happens that their job was to gas the kikes, the homos and the disabled.

Imagine if we tried the US soldiers who were in Vietnam for war crimes in 2050, all because they napalmed everyone back then.

 

[ES 148]

I mean, I'll defend them without question.

I don't get why we're still trying to get guys who's only crime was being on the other side of a war 60 years ago.
I'd get it if this was the 50s or 60s. But it's already been over 60 years since the war ended, can't we leave these guys alone. They were just doing their jobs, it happens that their job was to gas the kikes, the homos and the disabled.

Imagine if we tried the US soldiers who were in Vietnam for war crimes in 2050, all because they napalmed everyone back then.

Understandable opinion and perfectly reasonable. I meant low-effort 'lmao nazis r good kill all jews' stuff.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Technically, this was implemented and enforced by the US occupation forces and administration after WW2, so ... y'know...

That ended in what, '49? Remember, the US occupied Japan until '55, and had a much more profound effect on their society since we'd basically bombed them back into the Stone Age. Yet, weirdly enough, the Japanese can spend their entire lives not committing ritual sudoku over what awful things people who may or may not have been vaguely related to them did 70+ years ago.

The actually entertaining thing in this thread is watching people go "Gee, Germany is such a libtard pussy shithole that can't stop flagellating itself", but I'm pretty sure if Germany does something perceived as vaguely right-wing, the same people will instantly go "Gee, Germany is still overrun with fucking Nazis, we should carpet bomb the whole place until they learn from their crimes in ww2". It happened before.

Yeah, but who'd actually do the carpet bombing? The libtard pussy shithole that can't stop flagellating itself is the reality. The talk of carpet bombing would be just that- talk. Considering that Germany is de facto leader of the EU and a NATO member, nobody would actually try to stop them if they started tacking to the right.

 

[RetardedCat]

Understandable opinion and perfectly reasonable. I meant low-effort 'lmao nazis r good kill all jews' stuff.

nah if you commit war crimes you get prosecuted for war crimes after the war is over, but like holy shit the dudes are at minimum 70yo by now, they couldn't even gas a fly now.

Also the fact that this dude is getting fucked by a hate speech law makes me really envious of the US and the glorious free speech you guys enjoy.

 

[Exigent Circumcisions]

Any bets on what his KF username is?

 

[Syaoran Li]

"War crime" and "objective standards" don't go in the same sentence. Especially when the war in question is WW2- the only crime in that one was losing.

Well, considering there are things like the Geneva Convention and the Hague Convention that outlined and defined what constitutes a war crime, I'd say there are at least some objective standards.

Yeah, World War II atrocities tend to get over-politicized but for a good fucking reason considering all the utterly sick shit that was done by both the Axis (Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan) and the Allies (Soviet Union) and considering the person in question took part in a massacre of unarmed prisoners in France, which was considered a war crime even before the war, I'd say he should be deported to France and stand trial in a French court instead of being brought in on a bullshit charge just so Germany can virtue signal some more.

Also, if he were sent to France, the French could actually charge him with the crimes he should answer for and he'd likely fare a better chance of having a fair trial in France than in Germany if you need some form of consolation for the idiotic idea of defending a guy who is a literal Nazi.

Seriously, this guy was in the Western Front, not the Eastern Front, so he wasn't fighting communists. And he was part of the Waffen SS, not the Wehrmacht, so he wasn't some hapless conscript just following orders. The SS was comprised entirely of volunteers and you had to be committed to Nazi ideology or you would be booted from service.

While I do think Germany has this weird collective guilt over World War II and takes it too far, I also think that Japan and Russia go too far in the opposite direction. Japan acts like their war crimes weren't really a thing while Russia still celebrates Soviet atrocities (Great Patriotic War and all that)

Of all the totalitarian forces of World War II, I think Italy handled the aftermath the best. They do have some ridiculous hate speech laws but not to the severe extreme of Germany or even the Nordic countries, and I'm pretty sure most of the hate speech laws in the Italian legal codes are a result of being imposed by the Allied Forces post-war or more often, being imposed by the EU courts so Italy could join the European Union.

Then again, Fascist Italy didn't really commit the same level of war crimes that Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan did.

Heck, they didn't even enforce their racial purity laws they ratified to please Hitler since Mussolini was banging a Jewish mistress at the time and Italy was the first of the Axis Powers to fall and also the one whose civilian population hated the ruling regime the most since Mussolini was seen as a buffoon and a toady for Hitler by the time World War II broke out.

Chances are Mussolini could have stayed in power if he had done like Franco and stayed out of the war completely.

 

[Barnard]

Any bets on what his KF username is?

I'm guessing @Stoneheart.

 

[Bassomatic]

Are you for real?

Are you on the farms? Are you not taking everything with a grain of salt and or humor?

We've had literal murderers and drug dealing Navy SEALS etc, I meant it as in the unit of the SS did some absurdly badass things and some horrible war crimes, also there were some down right fuck ups. It's just retold as this super leet high speed low drag only thing that when bored burnt babies (when they literally did just this too)

 

[Clop]

Any bets on what his KF username is?

He could be any one of us. He could be YOU. He could be ME.

But who are we kidding, we all already know everyone here is a Nazi.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Well, considering there are things like the Geneva Convention and the Hague Convention that outlined and defined what constitutes a war crime, I'd say there are at least some objective standards.

Yeah, World War II atrocities tend to get over-politicized but for a good fucking reason considering all the utterly sick shit that was done by both the Axis (Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan) and the Allies (Soviet Union) and considering the person in question took part in a massacre of unarmed prisoners in France, which was considered a war crime even before the war, I'd say he should be deported to France and stand trial in a French court instead of being brought in on a bullshit charge just so Germany can virtue signal some more.

Emphasis mine. One word: Katyn.