Law Florida, Tennessee Ban Ranked-Choice Voting Despite Citizen Support - desantis daddy committing the real fraud

4.28.2022 2:10 PM

On Monday, Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a massive election bill into law that creates a special squad to investigate election fraud and crimes and increases some criminal penalties for some election-related violations.

But that's not all. Buried on page 25 of the 47-page bill is a complete ban on the use of ranked-choice voting anywhere in the state, regardless of what voters might want. In this case, it's the voters of Sarasota, who overwhelmingly decided in 2007 (with 77 percent in favor) to switch to this type of voting for local elections.

A similar ban was passed in February in Tennessee. There the target was the city of Memphis, where voters first decided they wanted ranked-choice voting back in 2008. The City Council itself resisted the change and attempted to get voters to repeal the system in 2018, but voters instead still chose to keep ranked-choice by 62 percent. Nevertheless, S.B. 1820 will stop Memphis (and any other municipality or county in Tennessee) from using ranked-choice voting to determine election results.

In Tennessee, the bill's sponsor, state Sen. Brian Kelsey (R–Germantown), made a typical claim by ranked-choice opponents—that it's a "very confusing and complex process that leads to lack of confidence." This is belied by the fact that voters keep choosing it when given the option to do so.

There's a lesson here on how some of the resistance to certain election reforms is actually about entrenched political interests protecting themselves from electoral consequences.

Ranked-choice voting is a system where voters don't just choose a single candidate over the others. Instead, voters are invited to rank candidates by preference. In a slate of five candidates, a voter can choose a favorite, then rank the rest as a second-choice, third-choice, et cetera.

When votes in this system are tabulated, a single candidate must receive a majority of the vote, not just the most votes, in order to win. If a single candidate doesn't surpass the 50 percent threshold, the candidate receiving the least number of votes is disqualified. Then the votes are retallied. For those who chose that last-place candidate as their first pick, instead their second choice is now their vote. The process repeats until a single candidate gets the most votes.

One of the stated goals for proponents of ranked-choice voting is to avoid a situation where, due to the size of the candidate pool, a person is declared a winner with just 30 percent of the vote or even less. Under the status quo, a candidate with polarizing positions that appeal to a small but committed group of voters can overcome the majority if votes get split among three, four, or more candidates.

Ranked-choice voting therefore also creates a system where third-party and independent candidates can have impact without voters having to worry about allegedly "throwing their vote away" or choosing a so-called "spoiler" who can't win but can draw votes away from a similar candidate. A voter can select a Libertarian Party or Green Party candidate or an independent candidate as their first choice. Then, the voter can select a more conventional Democrat or Republican candidate as the second choice, knowing that they can have their values reflected in initial results without losing their voice entirely.

FairVote, a nonpartisan organization pushing for election reforms, sees ranked-choice voting as a boon for voter participation and support of election outcomes. It views ranked-choice voting as a way of countering increasing polarization among both Democratic and Republican candidates: "America's constitutional system of governance is based on compromise. When polarization causes that to break down, policymaking can grind to a halt or swing wildly based on which party has majority control."

Unsurprisingly, politicians who benefit from a highly polarized environment wouldn't want an election system that encourages alternatives. Florida's politics these days can most certainly be described as "polarizing."

"There are some folks who benefit from divisive elections and the status quo," Deb Otis, a senior research analyst for FairVote, tells Reason. "Reforms will always have pockets of opposition."

And just because Republicans are behind the bans in Florida and Tennessee doesn't mean they're the only ones against ranked-choice. In New York City, establishment Democrats attempted to halt the implementation of ranked-choice voting in the mayor's race just last year. They failed, and Eric Adams eventually won with a majority of the vote after several rounds of tallies. Adams himself had spoken out against ranked-choice, claiming it would disenfranchise minority voters, even though the voters themselves (as in Sarasota and Memphis) overwhelmingly approved a referendum on it.

Despite the recent setbacks in Florida and Tennessee, Otis and FairVote are keeping a positive outlook and promoting the growth of adoptions of ranked-choice voting elsewhere. Maine pioneered ranked-choice voting in the U.S. for several state-level races (including governor and lawmakers), and a new bill will allow cities and towns to use the system for local races. In Utah, a Republican-sponsored bill signed into law by a Republican governor provided some technical tweak to its pilot program as ranked-choice voting continues to grow there. And Alaska will be using ranked-choice voting to replace Republican Rep. Don Young, who died in March.

"More and more cities are using ranked-choice voting," Otis says. "We continue to see voters like ranked-choice voting, understand it, and continue to elect candidates who have broad support."
 
One concept that I think people should take more seriously is citizens should be able to understand the voting system that decides who govern them. The average voter is fucking stupid. They have enough trouble with understanding the electoral college.

Ranked choice voting is probably one of the simplest voting scheme's beyond first past the post, but explain it to a person and try and have them explain it back to you and see how disappointed you'll become.
 
Not much of a bet when they can't even vote down ballot without being given a checkbox to automatically do it for them.

And that's not a racist kiwi speaking, that's federal judges admitting niggers and beaners can't read past a single character.
NEVER FORGET

One concept that I think people should take more seriously is citizens should be able to understand the voting system that decides who govern them. The average voter is fucking stupid. They have enough trouble with understanding the electoral college.

Ranked choice voting is probably one of the simplest voting scheme's beyond first past the post, but explain it to a person and try and have them explain it back to you and see how disappointed you'll become.
I agree that they need to understand better which is why civic literacy tests should be a thing. I probably wouldn't past muster given how much I've forgotten, but that just means I shouldn't vote.
 
I like the theory of ranked choice quite a lot, but California has forever made me suspicious of voter "improvements" proposed by democrats.

These improvements magically seem to only cement their power and that's how you end up with California in the current year.

I'm not sold that ranked choice is inherently bad though...

DeSantis isn't perfect, news at 11 I guess.
 
Basically any system that is not first-past-the-post is probably a good idea. Anything to stop the spoiler effect from supergluing some party insider to the seat that could otherwise be replaced by a popular upstart.
Ranked choice makes for a fairly easy system to explain. "Give a #1 to the guy you like the most. #2 to the second guy, and so on."
If that's somehow too hard, you can go even simpler with approval voting. "Tick the box next to all candidates you would be OK with representing you."
If the person you're talking to can't understand ticking a box then there's no hope for them really.
 
The excuse of "there are going to be stupid voters so let's keep the current voting system" is mostly used by people who are in power or are a part of the two party system.

Plus there are going to be idiots but if you bend backwards for what is going to be a minority, you are fucking over fairer voting for voters who can count up to 10.

If idiots don't get their vote approved because they can't understand 'best to worst, most preferred to least preferred' than fuck'um. They can go back to pre-school.
 
lol who the fuck cares about Sarasota
 
The excuse of "there are going to be stupid voters so let's keep the current voting system" is mostly used by people who are in power or are a part of the two party system.

Plus there are going to be idiots but if you bend backwards for what is going to be a minority, you are fucking over fairer voting for voters who can count up to 10.

If idiots don't get their vote approved because they can't understand 'best to worst, most preferred to least preferred' than fuck'um. They can go back to pre-school.
I think the real reason they're scared of ranked choice is because it would skew things pretty badly for TPTB. Their livelihoods are dependent on lies and people believing those lies, why endanger your paycheck by giving alternatives a fair chance? The two party system is dependent on people only having the illusion of choice. It's like asking a cow whether it wants to be a hamburger at McDonald's or Burger King.

TL;DR, what's in it for the cow?
 
There's a reason why the US doesn't have ranked choice voting. Because we long ago learned how such systems can be gamed easily. If the left is demanding a voting change its a scam.

Edit to remind all the US originally had an unintended form of ranked choice voting for the President. It was originally ranked choice. Winner becomes President 1st runner up gets Veep. After John Quincy Adams figured out how to game the system by running for Veep in the Presidential race they eliminated this in favor of the modern running mates.
 
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I think the real reason they're scared of ranked choice is because it would skew things pretty badly for TPTB. Their livelihoods are dependent on lies and people believing those lies, why endanger your paycheck by giving alternatives a fair chance? The two party system is dependent on people only having the illusion of choice. It's like asking a cow whether it wants to be a hamburger at McDonald's or Burger King.

TL;DR, what's in it for the cow?
Depending on the alternatives? Either more of the same or a chance at something completely different happening versus only more of the same for years to come.

Although you are completely right about them not risking their position of power/influence. Most countries with two party system tend to never go for ranked because that would be disadvantage to the top two.

This could funnily enough end up fucking one of the top two if they lose their position to another party. For example the SNP almost completely destroying the 3 main UK parties in the 2015 General Election with SNP having 56 out of 59 seats in Scotland with each main UK party only having one seat each. Plus back in the Scottish Parliament election in 2011 where they got a majority government in a voting system that was designed to heavily weigh against majority governments to begin with.

As a result Scottish Labour in the Scottish parliament is now the 3rd biggest party behind the Tories and SNP and 4th in the UK Parliament behind the SNP, Tories and the Lib Dems. (Technically their 5th since ALBA have one more seat then them but they aren't going to exist at the next GE)

Scotland was considered a Labour stronghold in the central belt especially. Now their only MP doesn't even advertise Scottish Labour in his leaflets amusingly.

So yea, it can backfire and it can lead to amusing situations and meltdowns.
 
Depending on the alternatives? Either more of the same or a chance at something completely different happening versus only more of the same for years to come.

Although you are completely right about them not risking their position of power/influence. Most countries with two party system tend to never go for ranked because that would be disadvantage to the top two.

This could funnily enough end up fucking one of the top two if they lose their position to another party. For example the SNP almost completely destroying the 3 main UK parties in the 2015 General Election with SNP having 56 out of 59 seats in Scotland with each main UK party only having one seat each. Plus back in the Scottish Parliament election in 2011 where they got a majority government in a voting system that was designed to heavily weigh against majority governments to begin with.

As a result Scottish Labour in the Scottish parliament is now the 3rd biggest party behind the Tories and SNP and 4th in the UK Parliament behind the SNP, Tories and the Lib Dems. (Technically their 5th since ALBA have one more seat then them but they aren't going to exist at the next GE)

Scotland was considered a Labour stronghold in the central belt especially. Now their only MP doesn't even advertise Scottish Labour in his leaflets amusingly.

So yea, it can backfire and it can lead to amusing situations and meltdowns.
I honestly don't see anything improving with the current state of things. The US is basically Weimar 2.0 and the regime is more concerned about "internet misinformation" than things like runaway inflation or people not being able to afford basic fucking living costs.
 
IMO you get one vote, not one(a), one(b), one(c). This ain't the Price is Right (although making the top two spin The Big Wheel of Victory (tm) would be kinda neat).
 
Proportional representation can do that just fine. The problem is that this leads to coalition-style governments.
Proportional representation would pretty much require a constitutional amendment to work in America. Ranked choice voting, not so much.
There's a reason why the US doesn't have ranked choice voting. Because we long ago learned how such systems can be gamed easily. If the left is demanding a voting change its a scam.

Edit to remind all the US originally had an unintended form of ranked choice voting for the President. It was originally ranked choice. Winner becomes President 1st runner up gets Veep. After John Quincy Adams figured out how to game the system by running for Veep in the Presidential race they eliminated this in favor of the modern running mates.
That has quite literally nothing to do with what ranked choice voting is.
 
explain the theorem
Basically no matter what democratic voting system you use, you'll always have the risk of people compromising on what they want because they know voting that way will unlikely get the results they prefer.

For example, if we want to order a takeout for lunch, and I'd rather want a pizza than a hamburger, but I really don't want a salad. Then I might be inclined to vote for a hamburger just because I know it has higher chances to win, despite pizza being my main choice. That endless compromise is what makes people burn out on democracies.
 
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