Fallout series

[Mysterious Autist XX]

Did the thread's pet shitter really try and use an admitted developer oversight as one of his talking points and try and give it a lore reason? If that isn't a bruh moment and a sign he needs to touch grass I don't know what is.

 

[BiggerChungus]

Back in the day when it first came out it was short, linear, and felt like they were trying to do a COD campaign with the worst shooting mechanics ever invented by mankind. In TTW with a slew of mods it's pretty okay, and the rewards are worth it if nothing else.

From what I recall at the time it was because FO3 had pretty mediocre combat and OA handled even that combat in a poor fashion that heavily restricted player choice. Had it been a more open sandbox allowing players latitude to grab and use whatever they could find OSP style instead of a series of CoD-like corridor shooting sections with restricted loadouts it might have been better received.

That's fair, yeah. Mods giving it a facelift probably make it seem a lot better than it actually was, and since it's basically one big shooting gallery, better shooting mechanics'll obviously be a big improvement.

 

[Mega Black]

The thing is the guy who conceived and produced the Mandalorian is a huge SW sperg who worked closely with Lucas on the Clone Wars children's cartoon and I don't know if that's true of whoever is working on the Fallout Amazon series.

Almost assuredly not the case. It's an IP that will be passed to some shitty Hollywood kike, who will take a ten second look at some Fallout 3 game play and that will be the extent of his research.

The show will be a deconstructionist half-comedy about Mad Max with some half-hearted implementations of fan favorite iconography. The protagonist will be a brown (but not too brown) female with lesbian love interest.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Almost assuredly not the case. It's an IP that will be passed to some shitty Hollywood kike, who will take a ten second look at some Fallout 3 game play and that will be the extent of his research.

The show will be a deconstructionist half-comedy about Mad Max with some half-hearted implementations of fan favorite iconography. The protagonist will be a brown (but not too brown) female with lesbian love interest.

They don't even need to try that hard. Just adapt Fallout 2's story and have the Enclave be emphasized as anti-communist right-wing lunatics who butcher innocents and couldn't be bothered to care about the wastelanders, preferring instead to kill them all. Why bother twisting the source material when it's already steeped in leftism?

 

[Mega Black]

They don't even need to try that hard. Just adapt Fallout 2's story

They won't touch Fallout 1 or 2, if anything it will be a loose adaptation of Bethesda Fallouts, the only games anyone cares about.

 

[Saturnalia-1918]

Then explain to me the NCR. It's basically just America: Round 2. And it's the faction that Obsidian and the Black Isle writers clearly favored. Joining them is the good karma route.

In fact, if the NCR just goes full Enclave and declares itself the United States in a future Fallout game, all that will change would be the name and the flag. It's already got everything that old America had. Down to the capitalism, the politics, and even the corruption. Which is what I did with my Fallout 5; the NCR just decides to become the US in name, because it became the United States in fact, already.

It just makes more sense that the eastern Brotherhood would go full NCR and revive American democracy in the capital of the old United States. Especially since they're surrounded by the technology and monuments of it. And once they've beaten the Enclave and incorporated its remnants into their fold, they'll be filled with people who genuinely want the old America back. And of course, the communities in the capital wasteland will want the old America back, just so they can have a vote and a say in how things are run, as opposed to having some old twat in pseudo-religious garb telling everyone what to do.

But no, people threw a fuss about how bad it was that the Brotherhood became a force for good, so they became assholes once again. And that is the Fallout 4 that we'll have to live with; influenced by people who complained that the Brotherhood in Fallout 3 evolved, like any human institution does. They want a static "they'll always be Space Marine Jawas who act like dicks" instead of having a faction evolve due to the circumstances. They'd rather have static factions rather than have the factions evolve like real human institutions do.

For the NCR, I'd imagine that the Enclave really spoiled any chance of NCR officials claiming legitimacy to the old USA. To the citizens of the NCR, the most recent memory of the US wouldn't be the mythologized pre war superpower but a gaggle of genocidal fuckwits hiding out on an oil rig wanting to kill everyone before a backwards tribal and his merry band of misfits blew them up. The Enclave were so comically evil in their dealings with the wasteland and so overtly trying to be seen as the "legitimate" continuation of the US that they've become intertwined and thus poison in the NCR.

As for the East, neither the Brotherhood nor the Enclave are anywhere near democratic so why would they just work together to build a democratic nation?

And why would they work with the Enclave survivors? The Enclave have been nuked and slaughtered to the point that I would be surprised if they're more than a dozen survivors left after the events of F3. Besides the lack of numbers, they lack any sort of bargaining position that would entice the Brotherhood to want to work with them. The Brotherhood can scavenge suits of power armor or energy weapons from the numerous dead or deserting Enclave soldiers. Any sort of advanced tech or factories to produce tech was more than likely destroyed with Raven Rock or the Mobile Crawler leaving it to be scavenged by the Brotherhood and if they weren't destroyed (like just stored in Adam's Air Force Base) then what prevents the Brotherhood from seizing it as spoils of war and simply driving off the Enclave for the third time?

Also why would the Brotherhood want to rebuild America, the idea has already been tainted by the Enclave and the Brotherhood was directly formed as a sessionist movement against the US for the FEV atrocities they discovered. The Brotherhood formed as a direct rejection of the US and especially the Enclave which represents the worst parts of the nation they formed to secede from.

 

[BiggerChungus]

For the NCR, I'd imagine that the Enclave really spoiled any chance of NCR officials claiming legitimacy to the old USA. To the citizens of the NCR, the most recent memory of the US wouldn't be the mythologized pre war superpower but a gaggle of genocidal fuckwits hiding out on an oil rig wanting to kill everyone before a backwards tribal and his merry band of misfits blew them up. The Enclave were so comically evil in their dealings with the wasteland and so overtly trying to be seen as the "legitimate" continuation of the US that they've become intertwined and thus poison in the NCR.

As for the East, neither the Brotherhood nor the Enclave are anywhere near democratic so why would they just work together to build a democratic nation?

And why would they work with the Enclave survivors? The Enclave have been nuked and slaughtered to the point that I would be surprised if they're more than a dozen survivors left after the events of F3. Besides the lack of numbers, they lack any sort of bargaining position that would entice the Brotherhood to want to work with them. The Brotherhood can scavenge suits of power armor or energy weapons from the numerous dead or deserting Enclave soldiers. Any sort of advanced tech or factories to produce tech was more than likely destroyed with Raven Rock or the Mobile Crawler leaving it to be scavenged by the Brotherhood and if they weren't destroyed (like just stored in Adam's Air Force Base) then what prevents the Brotherhood from seizing it as spoils of war and simply driving off the Enclave for the third time?

I don't think the Enclave was comically evil at all. Richardson explains very reasonably why they're doing what they're doing, and the regular Enclave troops don't even treat wastelanders that bad. Trespass on their base and you're given a warning to leave. If you trespass into certain NCR facilities, they shoot you on sight. I also think the Enclave's got bases elsewhere, not just at Navarro/the Rig and Raven Rock. There's an Enclave presence in Chicago, and there's an Enclave map in FO2 that (I think) shows dots in Alaska, Hawaii, and other places. It's never explained what those dots mean, but it's not impossible that it's other bases. Even in the mainland it's not like the Enclave's necessarily wiped out. You can convince Autumn to withdraw his troops rather than killing all of them, and there's a terminal in the Mobile Crawler with orders from Enclave High Command that've come in after Raven Rock's destroyed, so the Enclave chain of command's still going elsewhere. I agree though that they're not in a position to go conquer the wastes right now though.

The Brotherhood's also not necessarily in the best position either. On the West Coast they're in no position to go fighting the NCR or Enclave, and on the East Coast the only real presence they've got is in D.C., and even if you don't blow up the Citadel, they still take heavy losses from fighting the Outcasts, Super Mutants, and Enclave there. It's not like they can just go out and steamroll their enemies either. 4 and 76 might do something different though, no idea. I don't know much about their lore and from what I do know I don't really care for any of it.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

For the NCR, I'd imagine that the Enclave really spoiled any chance of NCR officials claiming legitimacy to the old USA. To the citizens of the NCR, the most recent memory of the US wouldn't be the mythologized pre war superpower but a gaggle of genocidal fuckwits hiding out on an oil rig wanting to kill everyone before a backwards tribal and his merry band of misfits blew them up. The Enclave were so comically evil in their dealings with the wasteland and so overtly trying to be seen as the "legitimate" continuation of the US that they've become intertwined and thus poison in the NCR.

The NCR still tries to call back to America's democratic past and copy its ways. It even creates a discrepancy with the lore, where Fallout 2's ending says that the title of president became a boogeyman, but in New Vegas, the leader of the NCR wears the title with pride and proclaims that the NCR is a continuation of the democratic civilization which existed before the war.

As for the East, neither the Brotherhood nor the Enclave are anywhere near democratic so why would they just work together to build a democratic nation?

The Enclave got its butt kicked, and the Brotherhood is working with local communities and recruits from them. Naturally, they'd want their communities' interest be represented in the Brotherhood. Not to mention Enclave propaganda portrays democracy as a good thing, so there's reasons why both sides would democratize, especially after the Lyons' Brotherhood opened up.

And why would they work with the Enclave survivors? The Enclave have been nuked and slaughtered to the point that I would be surprised if they're more than a dozen survivors left after the events of F3.

There's still enough survivors that the Brotherhood after Broken Steel say that they're devoting time to hunting them down. But it really begs the question why the Brotherhood wears outdated suits of armor in Fallout 4, when they should be wearing the Enclave power armors like the Advanced Power Armor Mark II, its Tesla variant, and the Hellfire Power Armor. I suppose the old T-45/T-60 look is just too iconic for them to ditch it, but I'd at least add a heavy Brotherhood unit that goes in with the Hellfire power armor wielding flamethrowers when they need to "burn out" places with stubborn resistance.

Also why would the Brotherhood want to rebuild America, the idea has already been tainted by the Enclave and the Brotherhood was directly formed as a sessionist movement against the US for the FEV atrocities they discovered. The Brotherhood formed as a direct rejection of the US and especially the Enclave which represents the worst parts of the nation they formed to secede from.

Because the Fallout 3 Brotherhood is no longer the Brotherhood. They've been declared heretics, they've had to open up to the world, and yes, there are people in the world who still long for the old America to come back. That's why the Enclave Radio kept talking about how they'll bring back old America-because the sound of rebuilding things to back before the war sounds appealing.

I don't think the Enclave was comically evil at all. Richardson explains very reasonably why they're doing what they're doing, and the regular Enclave troops don't even treat wastelanders that bad.

The two are at a complete disconnect to the point where it draws historical parallels. The local Enclave grunts, as explained in FNV, were just trying to restore order. The Enclave leadership wants to genocide everyone who isn't them. If that isn't a callback to the fucking Nazis, I don't know what is.

They won't touch Fallout 1 or 2, if anything it will be a loose adaptation of Bethesda Fallouts, the only games anyone cares about.

I don't think so. The first two Fallouts have so much that could be used by the libs to shit on the American right. Especially with that whole point made about how "Enclave fans are Trump supporters" during Fallout: Frontier's laugh riot of a release. They might replace Richardson with a Trump expy, but they'll still keep most of the story intact, like how the Enclave are just basically Nazis with a new flag in a post-apocalyptic world. Having a film where a strong, proud lesbian Chosen One defeats the genocidal Nazi Trump supporters is the kind of thing they'd totally make today.

 

[Saturnalia-1918]

I don't think the Enclave was comically evil at all. Richardson explains very reasonably why they're doing what they're doing, and the regular Enclave troops don't even treat wastelanders that bad. Trespass on their base and you're given a warning to leave. If you trespass into certain NCR facilities, they shoot you on sight. I also think the Enclave's got bases elsewhere, not just at Navarro/the Rig and Raven Rock. There's an Enclave presence in Chicago, and there's an Enclave map in FO2 that (I think) shows dots in Alaska, Hawaii, and other places. It's never explained what those dots mean, but it's not impossible that it's other bases. Even in the mainland it's not like the Enclave's necessarily wiped out. You can convince Autumn to withdraw his troops rather than killing all of them, and there's a terminal in the Mobile Crawler with orders from Enclave High Command that've come in after Raven Rock's destroyed, so the Enclave chain of command's still going elsewhere. I agree though that they're not in a position to go conquer the wastes right now though.

The Brotherhood's also not necessarily in the best position either. On the West Coast they're in no position to go fighting the NCR or Enclave, and on the East Coast the only real presence they've got is in D.C., and even if you don't blow up the Citadel, they still take heavy losses from fighting the Outcasts, Super Mutants, and Enclave there. It's not like they can just go out and steamroll their enemies either. 4 and 76 might do something different though, no idea. I don't know much about their lore and from what I do know I don't really care for any of it.

In F2 the Enclave's goal is to release modified FEV to kill all life on Earth besides those who were inoculated against the modified FEV (only those on the oil rig) so they're main goal is indeed a ridiculously evil super villain plot.

You can't even make the argument of "preserving pure humans" drivel as the Enclave basically announce their presence to the wasteland by gunning down friendly Vault Dwellers (the only other source of "pure humans") and taking the survivors to experiment on with more FEV making it clear their definition of pure human is if your born on the oil rig rather than mutation and radiation exposure.

You could convince Autumn to withdraw, but he is withdrawing to a base full of Brotherhood soldiers (I know that the fast-forward section implies they just let him leave but that never made sense to me) and all of his soldiers in the Capital Wasteland have abandoned him (explaining why even if you let him live he's nowhere to be found in Broken Steel not even a mention in Adam's Air Force Base).

As for the Chicago Base, we don't even know if it's even operational as the only logs we have in reference to Chicago is a random family repairing Ed-e (and even if it was an Enclave family than they're in a bad spot if they're reduced to repairing Ed-e with license plates). They also don't have the best track record of tracking their bases as Ed-e was sent West to Navarro when it had fallen years ago to NCR forces.

As for our West, there is no Enclave presence. Currently (as of now) the Enclave out West consists of scattered survivors hiding out in random places trying to prevent their identities from being leaked out to prevent being lynched by mobs or arrested by the NCR.

I know you said you don't care about Eastern lore but canonically the Enclave has been blown up and defeated so many times that they've basically become a punchline.

 

[BiggerChungus]

In F2 the Enclave's goal is to release modified FEV to kill all life on Earth besides those who were inoculated against the modified FEV (only those on the oil rig) so they're main goal is indeed a ridiculously evil super villain plot.

You can't even make the argument of "preserving pure humans" drivel as the Enclave basically announce their presence to the wasteland by gunning down friendly Vault Dwellers (the only other source of "pure humans") and taking the survivors to experiment on with more FEV making it clear their definition of pure human is if your born on the oil rig rather than mutation and radiation exposure.

You could convince Autumn to withdraw, but he is withdrawing to a base full of Brotherhood soldiers (I know that the fast-forward section implies they just let him leave but that never made sense to me) and all of his soldiers in the Capital Wasteland have abandoned him (explaining why even if you let him live he's nowhere to be found in Broken Steel not even a mention in Adam's Air Force Base).

As for the Chicago Base, we don't even know if it's even operational as the only logs we have in reference to Chicago is a random family repairing Ed-e (and even if it was an Enclave family than they're in a bad spot if they're reduced to repairing Ed-e with license plates). They also don't have the best track record of tracking their bases as Ed-e was sent West to Navarro when it had fallen years ago to NCR forces.

As for our West, there is no Enclave presence. Currently (as of now) the Enclave out West consists of scattered survivors hiding out in random places trying to prevent their identities from being leaked out to prevent being lynched by mobs or arrested by the NCR.

I know you said you don't care about Eastern lore but canonically the Enclave has been blown up and defeated so many times that they've basically become a punchline.

They want to purge the world of mutants to restore it to how it used to be as closely as possible. You could say it's evil if you disagree with the goal or the means, but just like with groups like the Legion or Unity, it's not what you could call ridiculously/comically evil, and depending on how you look at it, it's not even necessarily evil. It's not like the Enclave is going out and saying "fucking wastelanders lol i love murdering", it's "these aren't people, they're mutants and they endanger our existence."

That part's dumb, I agree, but it got addressed in a forum QA by Chris Avellone and later got put into the Fallout Bible. Black Isle was redoing the cutscene and scrapping the Enclave appearance entirely, but didn't have time to put it in the release. They agreed it was weird that the Enclave would gun down a vault of "pure" humans. Avellone explains what we got as a result of the Enclave soldiers being on-edge and not knowing whether the vault was full of people, monsters, robots, whatever, and they opened fire without orders. When they realized what they'd done they lied about the incident and said the people in the vault attacked them, which implies that their superiors explicitly didn't approve of them just killing vault dwellers. Obviously if you wanna disregard that and just focus on what's in-game you can, but since it's from the lead writer about the dev team's plans, I think it's worth keeping in mind.

I think Autumn not appearing again is more a result of Bethesda's devs either not having time or not knowing a good way to incorporate that kind of branching choice in the DLC, same reason that even if you help the Enclave you still have to fight them in Broken Steel. I don't think his non-presence means he's dead or something, or that the Enclave's done for.

True on the Chicago point, we don't know if there's an Enclave base there, but I think there's enough said in the games to make it possible.

The West meaning the Mojave to California, yeah, there's no established Enclave presence, but it's been often speculated (by Enclave fans, to be fair) that they've got bases in Alaska, Hawaii, and elsewhere. It's not said explicitly whether they do or don't, but there's that map with dots in those areas that may or may not represent Enclave outposts.

I don't care about East Coast lore insofar as FO4 and 76 are concerned. I don't know if 4 even does anything with the Enclave, and 76 apparently has them mentioned but not present, and the Appalachian Enclave was truly cartoonishly evil and retarded for no reason. To me neither game's canon factors into my idea of Fallout. In 3 we don't know if D.C. was the only place the Enclave had in the East, and like I said, you can find orders from a "High Command" in the Crawler in Broken Steel, so presumably there's some functioning, secure stronghold somewhere out there that the Enclave's got.

 

[ICametoLurk]

Ironically enough, Obsidian's best titles were made with them being rushed.

KOTOR 2 and New Vegas? Pearls of the Western RPG industry.

Alpha Protocol and Outer Worlds? Forgettable mediocre trash.

Obsidian made KOTOR 2 and New Vegas on a strict timetable, but were given all the cash and time extensions they asked for when making Alpha Protocol and Outer Worlds.

I suppose if you want the best out of Obsidian, you need to give them a short timetable and constant pressure to get things done fast.

Fallout 2 was rushed in like 9 months. Released only a year after the first game.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Alpha Protocol is great, definitely Obsidian's fourth best game after New Vegas, Sith Lords, and Mask of the Betrayer.

If you want an example of mediocre trash to pair with Outer Worlds I'd probably use Dungeon Siege III.

 

[Saturnalia-1918]

The NCR still tries to call back to America's democratic past and copy its ways. It even creates a discrepancy with the lore, where Fallout 2's ending says that the title of president became a boogeyman, but in New Vegas, the leader of the NCR wears the title with pride and proclaims that the NCR is a continuation of the democratic civilization which existed before the war.


The Enclave got its butt kicked, and the Brotherhood is working with local communities and recruits from them. Naturally, they'd want their communities' interest be represented in the Brotherhood. Not to mention Enclave propaganda portrays democracy as a good thing, so there's reasons why both sides would democratize, especially after the Lyons' Brotherhood opened up.


There's still enough survivors that the Brotherhood after Broken Steel say that they're devoting time to hunting them down. But it really begs the question why the Brotherhood wears outdated suits of armor in Fallout 4, when they should be wearing the Enclave power armors like the Advanced Power Armor Mark II, its Tesla variant, and the Hellfire Power Armor. I suppose the old T-45/T-60 look is just too iconic for them to ditch it, but I'd at least add a heavy Brotherhood unit that goes in with the Hellfire power armor wielding flamethrowers when they need to "burn out" places with stubborn resistance.


Because the Fallout 3 Brotherhood is no longer the Brotherhood. They've been declared heretics, they've had to open up to the world, and yes, there are people in the world who still long for the old America to come back. That's why the Enclave Radio kept talking about how they'll bring back old America-because the sound of rebuilding things to back before the war sounds appealing.


The two are at a complete disconnect to the point where it draws historical parallels. The local Enclave grunts, as explained in FNV, were just trying to restore order. The Enclave leadership wants to genocide everyone who isn't them. If that isn't a callback to the fucking Nazis, I don't know what is.


I don't think so. The first two Fallouts have so much that could be used by the libs to shit on the American right. Especially with that whole point made about how "Enclave fans are Trump supporters" during Fallout: Frontier's laugh riot of a release. They might replace Richardson with a Trump expy, but they'll still keep most of the story intact, like how the Enclave are just basically Nazis with a new flag in a post-apocalyptic world. Having a film where a strong, proud lesbian Chosen One defeats the genocidal Nazi Trump supporters is the kind of thing they'd totally make today.

With the F2 ending I think it is a retcon about the President title usage. Probably should have used Prime Minister or Chairman instead of President, I'd of liked for a formerly autocratic title like king or emperor be reused in a democratic fashion as reaction to the Enclave (they used the title of president so we won't) or bad historical call back (we can tell former great nations were ruled by kings and emperors, we are a great nation so we should be ruled by a king).

Also just because the NCR is a democracy doesn't mean they're deliberating doing so to try and claim the legacy of the US, you can be a democratic nation without trying to ape the United States.

But the Enclave propaganda is noted to not be working, you can find the radio mainly being played in Raider Dens and spouted off by the Nathan Vargas (who is captured and tortured by the Enclave) who many people dismiss as a crackpot (mainly because Radio Enclave has been playing for decades without any sign of said Enclave).

For the Power Armor I'd just assume it was laziness that prevented the F4 Brotherhood from having Enclave Power Armor and that more realistically said Enclave armor wearing squadrons would exist.

Lyon's Brotherhood might technically be heretics (never officially anyways, I know it's splitting hairs but very technically Lyons was never officials cut off, just very judgmental radio silence) but that doesn't automatically mean they would revert to wanting to reform the US. They've accepted recruits from the outside but as previously mentioned most people think that Radio Enclave is played by a crackpot due to lack of actual Enclave presence prior to Project Purity (and the Brotherhood relatively quickly defeats the Enclave once they actually start doing stuff, discrediting plans to revitalize America).

Plus the Brotherhood has already basically made the Capital Wasteland into their own feudal realm. They refer to the Capital Wasteland as their country and people from the Capital Wasteland mention that the Brotherhood pretty much run the show. If you think that Maxson being on the Prydwen and not running the realm discredits this then historically that's not the case as in medieval times many a monarch left their realm to go crusading in the far away (relative to the times) Middle East, and what is the Commonwealth Expedition but a post apocalyptic crusade.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Fallout 2 was rushed in like 9 months. Released only a year after the first game.

There you go. Another example from when Obsidian was still Black Isle.

 

[Snekposter]

The NCR still tries to call back to America's democratic past and copy its ways. It even creates a discrepancy with the lore, where Fallout 2's ending says that the title of president became a boogeyman, but in New Vegas, the leader of the NCR wears the title with pride and proclaims that the NCR is a continuation of the democratic civilization which existed before the war.

That was actually cut and never implemented.


As to the Enclave being lol evul, take a walk through Navarro as a low-INT Chosen One. People there are surprisingly kind and helpful. Even Sgt. Dornan mellows out a bit once he realizes you're a literal MORON. Plus their chef there is blind, making them an Equal Opportunity Employer, and once you get on the Oil Rig...

Granite and his squad aren't exactly fond of Horrigan or what the Enclave has done with him. The leadership may be evil as fuck, but even Curling can be convinced of his evil and to turn on the rest of the Enclave.

 

[HeyYou]

Yet another slap fight over New Vegas. I swear, the game's a magnet for bitching over factions and weirdo modders.

Really glossing over the fact that the most autistic person in this argument is the one going to bat for Bethesda, huh?

They want to purge the world of mutants to restore it to how it used to be as closely as possible. You could say it's evil if you disagree with the goal or the means, but just like with groups like the Legion or Unity, it's not what you could call ridiculously/comically evil, and depending on how you look at it, it's not even necessarily evil. It's not like the Enclave is going out and saying "fucking wastelanders lol i love murdering", it's "these aren't people, they're mutants and they endanger our existence."

That part's dumb, I agree, but it got addressed in a forum QA by Chris Avellone and later got put into the Fallout Bible. Black Isle was redoing the cutscene and scrapping the Enclave appearance entirely, but didn't have time to put it in the release. They agreed it was weird that the Enclave would gun down a vault of "pure" humans. Avellone explains what we got as a result of the Enclave soldiers being on-edge and not knowing whether the vault was full of people, monsters, robots, whatever, and they opened fire without orders. When they realized what they'd done they lied about the incident and said the people in the vault attacked them, which implies that their superiors explicitly didn't approve of them just killing vault dwellers. Obviously if you wanna disregard that and just focus on what's in-game you can, but since it's from the lead writer about the dev team's plans, I think it's worth keeping in mind.

I think Autumn not appearing again is more a result of Bethesda's devs either not having time or not knowing a good way to incorporate that kind of branching choice in the DLC, same reason that even if you help the Enclave you still have to fight them in Broken Steel. I don't think his non-presence means he's dead or something, or that the Enclave's done for.

True on the Chicago point, we don't know if there's an Enclave base there, but I think there's enough said in the games to make it possible.

The West meaning the Mojave to California, yeah, there's no established Enclave presence, but it's been often speculated (by Enclave fans, to be fair) that they've got bases in Alaska, Hawaii, and elsewhere. It's not said explicitly whether they do or don't, but there's that map with dots in those areas that may or may not represent Enclave outposts.

I don't care about East Coast lore insofar as FO4 and 76 are concerned. I don't know if 4 even does anything with the Enclave, and 76 apparently has them mentioned but not present, and the Appalachian Enclave was truly cartoonishly evil and retarded for no reason. To me neither game's canon factors into my idea of Fallout. In 3 we don't know if D.C. was the only place the Enclave had in the East, and like I said, you can find orders from a "High Command" in the Crawler in Broken Steel, so presumably there's some functioning, secure stronghold somewhere out there that the Enclave's got.

Genociding 99% of what's left of humanity is supervillain evil, yes. Richardson gives no actual reasons for believing the humans in the waste aren't human, he just says "lol you're mutants, gotta die." Unused content isn't canon and if it's true that they realized that the Enclave would appear like cartoon villains at the last minute but didn't have the time to implement changes, that's on them. They should have realized much sooner how the Enclave would have come across. And as they appear in game, they are without a doubt one of the most evil factions in the setting. Even the Legion and Institute don't compare.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

As to the Enclave being lol evul, take a walk through Navarro as a low-INT Chosen One. People there are surprisingly kind and helpful. Even Sgt. Dornan mellows out a bit once he realizes you're a literal MORON. Plus their chef there is blind, making them an Equal Opportunity Employer, and once you get on the Oil Rig...
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Granite and his squad aren't exactly fond of Horrigan or what the Enclave has done with him. The leadership may be evil as fuck, but even Curling can be convinced of his evil and to turn on the rest of the Enclave.

That's the Navarro base. In other times, the Enclave is so pointlessly evil it's laughable. Like during the intro when they gun down vault dwellers. Evil, sure, but once you speak to Richardson about the purpose of the Enclave and why they're doing what they're doing, that makes no sense. Pure humans are worth their weight in gold to the Enclave, so why the hell are they killing them?

Also, that family that Frank Horrigan was told to acquire. They obviously have intel the Enclave needs because one of them says that they'd rather die than for the knowledge they have be given to the Enclave. What was stopping Frank and his men from just knocking them out and taking them back to HQ so that they can interrogate these yokels properly? Why gun them down when they know something your superiors need? It really calls into question Frank having broad 10s all across the board when character-wise, he just acts like he has a fist for a brain. I can imagine President Richardson or some other Enclave military official getting pissed off upon learning that Frank just killed someone with valuable intel, instead of capturing them so they can properly interrogate them.

Really glossing over the fact that the most autistic person in this argument is the one going to bat for Bethesda, huh?

Of course I am. They're the reason New Vegas even exists in the first place.

Fallout was becoming a joke in the video gaming community until Bethesda's Fallout 3 came out, then, when that proved to be wildly successful, Bethesda farmed out the rights for another Fallout game to Obsidian while they worked on Skyrim. New Vegas was literally a cash-grab capitalizing on Fallout 3's success, except the cash-grab wound up being far more successful than the original product. But make no mistake, no Bethesda means no successful Fallout 3, and no Fallout 3 means no New Vegas.

And again, I've pointed out that a lot of the flaws people blame Bethesda for, New Vegas and the older Fallout games also have. Things like railroading and cartoony villains aren't just Bethesda's thing, they're a franchise feature. Even if someone else bought Fallout and Van Buren came out, it would have fallen by the wayside and end up like the Judge Dredd movie with Karl Urban: technically fulfilling all obligations to the fans, but it couldn't break even. Bethesda's Fallout 3 laid the groundwork for New Vegas' rise, which gave the Fallout franchise a couple more decades of life.

So yeah, I'm willing to forgive them for Fallout 4 and Fallout 76, when what they did (make Fallout 3, give Obsidian the rights to make New Vegas) actually saved the franchise from extinction. Sure, Fallout 4 is broken AF, and Fallout 76 is even worse, but what games today aren't? Aside from a few new games, most games today are either mediocre or worse. Even Obsidian today went full woke with Outer Worlds, so it's not like they're much better.

But speaking of that..........what modern studio would you hand over Fallout to? Now that would be an interesting question. If Bethesda sucks ass, then maybe it's time to look for a new company to hold the Fallout franchise? Maybe one in Microsoft's embrace, or someone from the outside? Maybe a Japanese company? Or a European one? Come on, if you guys can spend eons shitting on Bethesda, you guys must have some clue as to who Fallout should be handed off to.

Genociding 99% of what's left of humanity is supervillain evil, yes. Richardson gives no actual reasons for believing the humans in the waste aren't human, he just says "lol you're mutants, gotta die."

THANK YOU! That's what I've been saying for months. The Enclave's portrayal in Fallout 2 makes the Fallout 3 Enclave look positively tame, especially since Autumn just wanted to play warlord while Richardson wanted everyone outside their walls dead. And it's quite telling that the proudly anti-communist American government ended up becoming Nazis with a different flag. The politics of the game are about as subtle as The Boys show.

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

Why gun them down when they know something your superiors need? It really calls into question Frank having broad 10s all across the board when character-wise, he just acts like he has a fist for a brain.

Gameplay and story separation

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I'm still waiting for an answer. It's obvious that almost everyone here sees Bethesda as unworthy of managing the Fallout franchise. So instead of ceaselessly bitching about Bethesda being bad for Fallout, why not talk about which developer studio can manage it better? Because now, Bethesda isn't the sole proprietor of the Fallout franchise, Microsoft is. And if the fans make enough of a stink to Microsoft about letting other studios get a crack at making a Fallout game, Bethesda won't be able to stop Microsoft from ordering them to farm out the rights to another developer when it comes to making another Fallout game. There's no better time than now. Especially since Microsoft does sometimes listen to fan feedback.

So maybe, instead of endlessly whining about how bad Bethesda is in an endless echo chamber, why not try to figure out who can do the job better?

It could be Bioware, it could be Eidos Montreal, it could be Nintendo for all we care. Come on, let's hear some ideas! Most of you agree that Bethesda Fallout is shit, so I suppose you guys already have a thought as to who can do the job right.

After all, you're obviously not just endlessly bitching about Bethesda to fill an empty void in your soul, are you?

Gameplay and story separation

Why bother giving him 10s across the board? Why not just broad 10s on attributes related to combat, and a 3 or less in intelligence?

Someone was just probably lazy. But hey, the game was rushed, so they obviously didn't have the time.

"How do we make our final boss/super mutant in power armor be a real challenge for the player?"
"Just give him full 10s in all stats so we can roll the game out!"

 

[CWCissey]

Why bother giving him 10s across the board? Why not just broad 10s on attributes related to combat, and a 3 or less in intelligence?

Because Horrigan was meant to be a perfect super soldier.