Evolutionary Psychology is a Meme

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I feel like you all missed the point of my post, perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not denying biologies impact on our behavior, I'm stating I don't find it a satisfying method to explain the entirety of human psychology or action.

When you define the entirety of human action as a product of evolutionary attrition you state all moral impulses are nothing more than arbitrary reactions. Following this line of thought would lead you to believe that morality itself is arbitrary, contrived by nature as an expedient mode of operation; but again this misses the human element, and is ultimately unsatisfying to anyone who isn't a strict materialist(the vast majority of people). Further there's no end to the moral quandaries we find ourselves in that completely defy the simplistic view of evolutionary psychology.
I'm not meming when I say this, read a translation of Beyond Good and Evil by Nietzsche, the Kaufman translation is perfectly fine and accessible. I was shocked at how clear, concise, and decisive he was when I actually read him. He treats morality in a very pragmatic and realistic way while also being human (all too human, frankly). Nietzsche's actual writings are nothing like the way he gets memed. He's not the hateful and manipulative psychopath he gets made out to be.
 
Sure... But generally speaking people with similar genetic background, look, sound, smell, achieve, behave etc similarly.
Up to a point, I agree, but take that person completely out of their culture and society and they will act very differently. There is an enormous layer of learned behavior on top of any genetic traits, to say nothing of our agency or ability to consciously override what our genetics or mental illnesses may be telling us to do.

That's a reason why the insanity defense rarely, if ever succeeds in court.
The bigger picture you go the more predictive these generalities become.
Right, exactly the same reason why it's easier to model climates than it is weather. Chaotic and complex systems become simpler and easier to predict with abstraction. That's why it's easy to know where a crop will grow well but there's no guarantee in any given year you'll have a good harvest.

I just don't know how someone can accept that ones genetics determine hair color, skin color, muscle distribution, height, weight, face shape, every single physical aspect... But the brain is a mystery, untouched, inscrutable. The one organ that uses more resources than any other organ proportionally by mass is magically immune to selective pressures. All people at all times just randomly turn out with a totally unpredictable set of psychology traits. The only way someone can think that is consuming massive amounts of globohomo propaganda, which, to be fair, is the typical upbringing.
You're absolutely right on selective pressures driving brain development...it's not immune at all, we wouldn't have the brains we do today without those pressures. We also know that certain genetic issues can predispose someone to or cause mental illnesses and developmental disorders.

However, consciousness and subjective experience have some deeper and unexplained (if not inexplicable) pieces that go far beyond the sum of the biological parts. The exact mechanisms and reasons behind this are currently unknown to science, and may never be known, but it is clearly something much more complex than simple genetics or selective pressures.
 
However, consciousness and subjective experience have some deeper and unexplained (if not inexplicable) pieces that go far beyond the sum of the biological parts. The exact mechanisms and reasons behind this are currently unknown to science, and may never be known, but it is clearly something much more complex than simple genetics or selective pressures.
We are in total agreement here, along with @Hugger Brother. I'm an amateur HBD sperg which motivates me to be so insistent on the point. I blame my genetics...
 
We are in total agreement here, along with @Hugger Brother. I'm an amateur HBD sperg which motivates me to be so insistent on the point. I blame my genetics...
I think we're all closer to the same position than we think, just different perspectives. There's a mix of biology, sociology and these unknown factors that make us what we are. Some can be overcome but others, like Terry Davis's struggle with a terrible form of schizophrenia, end up defeating the person and cost them their life.

Evolutionary psychiatry is probably closer to what we're all getting at.

Also I'm glad you've had a chance to experience Nietzsche from a neutral perspective. He gets a lot of completely undeserved flak and his philosophies are much deeper than the layman's understanding of it as pointless nihilism.
 
I have no problem with the basic premise of EvoPsych -- that psychological traits, modes of human interactions, or even social organizations are "extended phenotypes" that can be subjected to natural selection. That such "phenotypes" might not have a genetic basis can be sidestepped by postulating culture, instead of genes, as vehicles of trait transmission. But the huge, seemingly intractable problem of EvoPsych is that a lot of what the field claims are post-hoc, just-so stories, with no attempt to trace out how a trait emerge.

The same problem used to occur Biological Evolution too: there used to be outlandish theories about how molluscs evolve, with biologists proposing outlandish "intermediaries", until someone called a stop to this nonsense: if you propose a intermediate stage, you must prove that it confers benefit over the preceding stage. I'm not sure if EvoPsych can take on this challenge -- to propose how a behavioral trait like shame can emerge, step by step, with each step conferring more benefits than the step before it.

When you define the entirety of human action as a product of evolutionary attrition you state all moral impulses are nothing more than arbitrary reactions. Following this line of thought would lead you to believe that morality itself is arbitrary, contrived by nature as an expedient mode of operation
Something that confers benefits to survival or reproduction is hardly "arbitrary". What EvoPsych attempts to show is exactly that at least some moral dictates are not arbitrary: they contribute to the expansion of some human populations -- while on the other hand also shows how disregarding the same dictates can confer benefits in some cases.

If I understand you correctly, your objection are that (1) EvoPsych robs humans beings of our agency, reducing human feelings and behaviors to sheer biological processes. (2) EvoPsych deprives morality of meaning, and (3) EvoPsych proposes itself to be the grand unifying theory of all human behaviors. (1) is a hard philosophical question that I don't have a ready answer. On one hand there are always philosophers who assert that free will does not exist; people only believe in mistake that it does. On the other hand, Neuroscience's experiments to "prove" that free will does not exist were roundly derided by philosophers. As for the question of "inner life" you mentioned in the OP, I don't think EvoPsych assume that inner life isn't real; they are just merely unconcerned with it. The notion of "inner life", like the debate of free will, is something that I don't think science can answer, and are best left to philosophers, such as those who debates whether David Chalmers's "zombie" is a coherent notion or not.

(2) is outside the scope of Science -- Science describes what is (e.g. what forms of moral codes there are, and how they might have emerged); what those moral code means to people is not a Science question. (3) is an often raised objection, and thankfully we've grown out of the hubris of E. O. Wilson and his Sociobiology. EvoPsych today now posit itself as one line of inquiry among many, which shows that people in that field do listen to criticism, understand their limitations, and learn to avoid grandiose claims.

I'm no materialist (if my assertion that Science doesn't hold all the answer is not clue enough), but I think that a purely materialist line of inquiry can nevertheless produce legitimate knowledge about the human condition, even if such inquiry ignores certain aspects of the human nature. I will give EvoPsych a hearing if the field follows the practice of good science, and at this moment, they still have some way to go.
 
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I thought this thread was going to be about how flimsy the substantiation of any of the rank speculation and conjecture in the field is and instead I got "BUT MUH SOUL MUH FREE WILL MUH HUMAN SPIRIT" faggotry instead.
 
we can observe that certain physical conditions seem to precipitate behavior, but given that the consciousness itself is a black box, it's difficult to say exactly how much that physical condition has to do with any behavioral result, or even whether that link explicitly exists in any specific case.
Yes and no. You can open someone’s skull up, and poke specific neurons and evoke specific reactions. They do this during certain types of brain surgery if tissue is being removed for example tumour or sometimes even to cauterise a focus area that’s causing seizures. You literally go a millimetre or a fraction thereof at a time, with the person awake, and you can evoke a specific smell, or make a specific bit of skin twitch. But the brain can also rewire itself in weird ways so that a man with a literal thin ballon shell of brain and the rest expanded ventricle worked for years as a civil servant with a normal IQ.
Electrophysiologists can also stick a catheter up a vein and get to the heart and test and burn out a single cell or two in the areas that produce the electrical signals that drive heart rhythm to stop arrhythmias.
In some ways there’s a very direct and obvious link between physiology and action. In others, it’s much more mysterious and odd.

When you define the entirety of human action as a product of evolutionary attrition you state all moral impulses are nothing more than arbitrary reactions.
Yes this is true. We can provide explanations as to why we feel certain things but we are also creatures with a higher sense of morality, capable of restraining baser instincts. Eco psych is misused as an excuse for bad behaviour by a lot of people
 
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