Does China (PRC) Deserve Credit?

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Does China (PRC) deserve credit for what they've done?


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    23
China would be in a better place if the nationalists won the civil war, despite the nationalists being filled with corrupt warlords. I think things would have mellowed out over time and they're preferable to the sex pest pedophile Mao Zedong and the CCP.
The Kuomintang will not make China better, because Chiang Kai shek is a fool whose foolishness is even greater than his evil. A clever dictator will try to make the country prosperous and strong in order to consolidate his power, while a dictatorial fool will only plunge the country into hell
 
The Kuomintang will not make China better, because Chiang Kai shek is a fool whose foolishness is even greater than his evil. A clever dictator will try to make the country prosperous and strong in order to consolidate his power, while a dictatorial fool will only plunge the country into hell
Anyone would've been better than commies.
 
Whatever mainland China has achieved it has done so despite communism, not thanks to it. Had China remained the original republic after WWII it would've become an economic powerhouse many decades before and without the untold millions killed by that bald fat fuck mao.
but there are slivers of truth in what they say (like, China has built high speed rail faster than the US, purely at an objective level)
They did it with insane amounts of debt to prop up other state industries like steel and cement factories, all to create rail that sometimes go nowhere, for stations that barely get any passengers at all, just like all those ghost cities. Now that debt its about to bankrupt their commie asses. Do you want us to do the same? build a trillion-dollar highspeed rail system to serve places like Bumfuck Nebraska?
 
Had China remained the original republic after WWII it would've become an economic powerhouse
i disagree, because the nationalists horrifically mismanaged the country. the "republic" degenerated into a collection of warlords and other psychopaths. people forget the biggest 20th century famine before the GLF-induced one was caused the nationalists in the 1940s.
 
i disagree, because the nationalists horrifically mismanaged the country. the "republic" degenerated into a collection of warlords and other psychopaths. people forget the biggest 20th century famine before the GLF-induced one was caused the nationalists in the 1940s.
I'm basing it off the success taiwan experienced.
 
taiwan suffered from numerous massacres (the white terror etc.) after the nationalists decamped there and needed to secure their rule. for most of the 60s and 70s it was a backwater until japan and korea kicked off the second wave of outsourcing and moved their production there. for example, schwinn closed their unionized chicago plant in 1983 and sold rebadged panasonic bikes. panasonic later moved their bike production to taiwan after their currency started massive appreciation from the plaza accords.

outside of tapei and kaohsiung which are incredible cities, most of taiwan resembles the usual mainland provincal backwater
 
it deserves to be conquered by india and turned into a giant toilet

and then, emboldned by their latest conquest, the jeets must go into a nuclear exchange with pakistan, wiping both india, pakistan, and the communists off the map
 
The CCP gets credit for swindling various regions (South America, Mexico, Southeast Asia, Oceania, Europe, UK, and Africa) into buying their pump-and-dumped and crappy Chinese cars. They undercut domestic brands, they look good enough on the outside, people are fascinated with the GIANT ASS infotainment screens that almost EVERY Chinese car has today, and they last just enough to get people to dump their hard-earned money on these turds. Little do they know is that the stuff that you don't see in the car is cost-cut to hell, they're very prone to catching fire, and the rate that Chinese car companies are collapsing (aside from the big names like BYD, for now at least) means that you may not even be able to get your crappy Chinese car serviced in the future.
 
No and yes, I didn’t like it when Mao vowed to “abandon” the old Chinese value and destruction of historical monument. Looking at those sewer gutter oil extraction and high corruption, it’s a reflection of the moral destruction rooted to Maos ruining the old Chinese value

I will give them admiration for shifting their economic plans from communism to fully pledged capitalism, which defeated the whole purpose of the Chinese Civil War
 
You cannot speak about China currently without speaking of China historically, both within the last two centuries and in ancient history. The truth is after Mao died China slowly reverted into their natural state. An authoritarian empire spanning across the entire mainland. The CCP deserves credit where they were capable of casting off mao's retardation and embracing economic pragmatism, as for their economic growth in the century and a half before Mao took power was an unrelenting shit show of the qing being utterly incapable of modernizing and dealing with the threat of European empires, said empires running rampant in the region enforcing whatever they will (the opium war for example), and nightmarish internal instability. I would say the qing died a death of a thousand cuts but really it was like an elephant getting hacked to death with a machete. They sustained many injuries that would be fatal to anything else but eventually it did them in.

The KMT were marginally better, the corruption and incompetence was so baffling that I had to make sure it wasn't CCP propaganda, after the Japanese invaded China was thrown into another round of absolute chaos. (it should be noted Japan was the anti China, they recognized the threat of the Western empires and immediately began modernizing which they had done successfully). Truthfully the only reason I give the KMT the time of day is because of A they were able to function fine in Taiwan after a generation of totalitarianism and B just how horrifying Mao was.

Just having a stable government without foreign invasion or apocalyptic internal crisis is really what China needed, and the CCP provided that.
Regardless if the KMT or CCP won would mean the same, China would eventually industrialize and become a player on the world stage.
When you get down to it though I would say the CCP is functionally a revival of the Chinese school of legalism. If you don't know what that is imagine a cartoonishly totalitarian philosophy from the dark ages which feels like something derived from stalinism, i recommended going down a rabbit hole on that topic to get an understanding of the Chinese and what they consider authoritarianism to be. Things like the one child policy or social credit score is something that is abhorrent when you get down to it but acceptable to them.

As for things like their collosal high speed rail network it should be noted historically China has always been big on empire spanning infrastructure (take their ancient canal network for example). It should also be noted China loves these projects so they can inject massive amounts of money into their economy.

Ive seen people lament the defeat of the KMT but I believe had they won we likely would have had a similar creature to what we have currently, just different timetables for them getting their shit together, industrializing, and then becoming the global sweat shop. The truth is what we see now is the insect hive with a red coat of paint.

A word about the social credit score, censorship, demographic replacement, and one child policy. The West for a while had been trying to achieve a diet version of the aforementioned through persuasion instead of the authoritarian cudgel, usually side stepping through private enterprise. Recently in the last ten years this has collapsed and the cudgel has had to be used more against dissenters. Say the wrong thing and you lose your job, be it online or if someone just happened to have a camera even if the affront was years ago. Censorship was largely outsourced to the media and big tech, in China demographic replacement is used against undesirable ethnic groups like in tibet where an obscene amount of Chinese were planted there, in the West it's used against their own native populace through imported goblins and orcs, for China the forced one child policy is far more brutal than the campaign of pricing westerners out of being able to start a family and keep an acceptable standard of living instead going back to replacement by importing hordes of goblins who are content to live in impoverished squalor. It's twisted how close we have degenerated to them in a diet version of their insect reality dazzled with a facade as everything continues to get worse
 
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You cannot speak about China currently without speaking of China historically, both within the last two centuries and in ancient history. The truth is after Mao died China slowly reverted into their natural state. An authoritarian empire spanning across the entire mainland. The CCP deserves credit where they were capable of casting off mao's retardation and embracing economic pragmatism, as for their economic growth in the century and a half before Mao took power was an unrelenting shit show of the qing being utterly incapable of modernizing and dealing with the threat of European empires, said empires running rampant in the region enforcing whatever they will (the opium war for example), and nightmarish internal instability.

Given how hard Xi Jinping is trying to push China back to the Mao era, will he even live long enough for that to happen? Or will the internal party members have enough and stop that from happening somehow? Do they even have manpower to stand up to Xi at this point, after all of the purges of CCP members that were done under his eye?
 
I'm basing it off the success taiwan experienced.
Taiwan's economic strategy was pretty similar to post-Mao China's, Taiwan just implemented it earlier. So if you think the current Chinese economic strategy is doomed, it would still be so under the Nationalists.
KMT is very pro-China, afaik and it's a common belief China today is largely what Chiang wanted as opposed to the retardation of Mao Zedong of forcing everyone on to live an agricultural commune. Stalin originally favored the KMT too because he distrusted Mao, and thought the Chinese would get in the way of them leading the world wide socialist movement.
It also had to do with Marxist theories about how communist revolutions occurred. Stalin didn't think their was enough of an industrial proletariat in China for communism to succeed there at the time of the Chinese Civil War. Tsarist russia was largely a peasant country, but it at least had major industrial centers in Moscow and St. Petersburg, which was more than could be said about the China of a century ago. But then Mao went and proved yet another aspect of Marxist theory to be bullshit, even if Mao himself would have claimed he was just interpreting Marx correctly.
 
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