Dinosaurs

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StealthBoy dijo:
If Noah had built a bigger fucking boat, we would still have Dinosaurs. God hates Dinosaurs. Boycott God!!!!!!

FULL DISCLOSURE: I was Noah's lumberjack.
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cumrobbery dijo:
I'm just going to say that I think the idea that any significantly large theropod had feathers is pretty illogical. Why would a 20 foot tall beast that does not A. Fly or B. Live in a cold climate need feathers? Unless they directly evolved into birds (Which the large carnivores obviously didn't) they probably didn't have feathers or at least grew out of them as they matured. I've yet to see any logical reasoning or convincing evidence that shows that any large carnivores sported feathers when fully grown.
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*points fucking furiously at Yutyrannus*
*points even more fucking furiously at a flightless bird and every bird that still has feathers even though it lives somewhere hot*

Through phylogenetic bracketing, because we know that large coelurosaurs were related to the smaller coelurosaurs (i.e maniraptorans) we can infer because of close relation that tyrannosauroids had feathers. Being even more specific, we know for SURE that some tyrannosaurs had feathers (cough cough Yutyrannus) which makes it likely that other directly related tyrannosaurs had feathers. The closer related to something that had confirmed feathers, the more likely it is that the animal had feathers.

Think of it this way. Even elephants have hair because they are mammals and ALL mammals have hair as a shared trait. If you had never seen an elephant in your life, but know that an elephant is a mammal, and that the mammals you have seen have hair, you can infer that an elephant indeed does have some sort of hairy covering somewhere and you're probably right.

Also, the type of feathers that large theropods would have had are PLUMACEOUS feathers. These are not the type of feathers present on flying birds that you seem to be thinking of (pennaceous feathers). They look like scraggly hairs, not fully veined feathers like you see on the wings of a bird.

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It doesn't get any more logical than phylogenetic bracketing... It's literally A is related to B and A had Z trait so B may have Z trait.

I'd go as far to say that theres no logical evidence completely barring large coelurosaurs from having feathers.
 
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Yutyrannus dijo:
*points fucking furiously at Yutyrannus*
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Yutyrannus was likely different because we know it lived in a colder climate (for the time)
We know that later Tyrannosaurids were scaled on most if not all of their bodies because we have found scale impression in places that we know for a fact were feathered on Yutyrannus. I'm not denying that Yutyrannus was feathered. I am denying that all large theropods had feathers.
 
cumrobbery dijo:
Yutyrannus was likely different because we know it lived in a colder climate (for the time)
We know that later Tyrannosaurids were scaled on most if not all of their bodies because we have found scale impression in places that we know for a fact were feathered on Yutyrannus. I'm not denying that Yutyrannus was feathered. I am denying that all large theropods had feathers.
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An Emperor penguin lives in a cold climate. An African penguin does not. They are both penguins and closely related. Does this mean that an African penguin does not have feathers? An arctic wolf lives in a cold climate. A Mexican wolf does not. Does this mean the Mexican wolf does not have fur? No. However, a Mexican wolf's fur and an African penguin's feathers and body composition are adapted to their climate. The climate argument doesn't add up when you look at literally every other animal on the planet. Also, the late Cretaceous in Tyrannosaurus' range was not absolutely sweltering anyways. Subtropical, yes, but relatively mild. Think Florida, or Louisiana.

The scale impressions were found in isolated places of a 40 foot animal. That portion of the neck, underside of the tail, and feet have scales. A section on the side of the animal had skin. All of these places fell sorely short of even more of a square foot in diameter. Pretty much the rest of the 90% of Tyrannosaurus integument is unknown. If you looked at the scaled feet and bare undersides of an ostrich, you would see much of the same thing. This does not mean an ostrich is completely covered in bare skin and scales.

Also, as far as "it didn't directly evolve into birds so no feathers", there are ornithiscians with feathers (and protofeathers in the case of Tianylong) like Kulindadromeus which defies that argument.

I am not saying that all large theropods had feathers. I am saying that all coelurosaurs probably had plumage of some sort somewhere on their bodies. Not full pennaceous wing spreads, not entire body covering on most members of Tyrannosauroidea, but logic points that there has to be some somewhere.

It's fine if you don't agree or whatever, I'm just explaining what makes it quite plausible and presenting the facts that line up with it.
 
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melty dijo:
It's probably the same spergs who complain about Pluto

I'd like to see some pictures of whats considered accurate dinosaur depiction with feathers. I'm a complete pleb but this thread is p interesting & informative.
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some of my fav paleoartists on deviantart:
I think her stuff is pretty accurate http://ewilloughby.deviantart.com/gallery/ if not it's still stunning
also this dude did some of the concept art for Saurian http://arvalis.deviantart.com/gallery/55828060/Dinosaurs
this dude also draws some pretty decent dinosaurs http://hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/gallery/26535146/Paleoart-mainly-Dinosaurs
Scott Hartmann seems to be THE ultimate reconstruction guy, at least I see other people use his work as references a lot, though he usually does bone reconstrutions only http://scotthartman.deviantart.com/gallery/
also nice paleoart http://eurwentala.deviantart.com/gallery/

I'd check out their favs if you want to see more, the dinosaur spergs on dA tend to follow each other

my absolute faves have to be Doug Henderson and John Conway, though I own a book with their art so I don't know if they have some online presence, but you can find some of their work via google

edit: looking through the book again it's hard to pick the best artists, thoug Doug Henderson is def my personal fave. I'd check out the artists from "dinosaur art: the world's greatest paleoart" in general.
 
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beansntoast dijo:
some of my fav paleoartists on deviantart:
I think her stuff is pretty accurate http://ewilloughby.deviantart.com/gallery/ if not it's still stunning
also this dude did some of the concept art for Saurian http://arvalis.deviantart.com/gallery/55828060/Dinosaurs
this dude also draws some pretty decent dinosaurs http://hyrotrioskjan.deviantart.com/gallery/26535146/Paleoart-mainly-Dinosaurs
Scott Hartmann seems to be THE ultimate reconstruction guy, at least I see other people use his work as references a lot, though he usually does bone reconstrutions only http://scotthartman.deviantart.com/gallery/
also nice paleoart http://eurwentala.deviantart.com/gallery/

I'd check out their favs if you want to see more, the dinosaur spergs on dA tend to follow each other

my absolute faves have to be Doug Henderson and John Conway, though I own a book with their art so I don't know if they have some online presence, but you can find some of their work via google

edit: looking through the book again it's hard to pick the best artists, thoug Doug Henderson is def my personal fave. I'd check out the artists from "dinosaur art: the world's greatest paleoart" in general.
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Maybe PL but this guy named Stephen Burchette went to the same school I did. He's a fucking amazing sculptor. He does both retrosaurs/movie as well as accurate dinosaurs and I adore his work.

His instagram is sbpaleo_artist if you wanna check him out. Amazing guy and SUPER nice. Met him at an art show when I was 14 and sperged to him for hours. Totally deserves more recognition.
 

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seeing those cool sculpts I remembered there seems to be quite the big dinosaur plushie community as well. this person with a background in palaentology prides themselves in making accurate plushies (as accurate as a plushie can be I guess)
http://palaeoplushies.tumblr.com/post/161017012905/some-kickstarter-updates-the-funds-have-cleared

edit:
these peoples' sculpts also seem pretty good
http://bookrat.tumblr.com/post/157081183299/microraptor-everyones-favorite-4-winged
http://vara-art.tumblr.com/post/153999460978/a-good-boy-and-a-friend-the-old-rex-enjoys
 
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I'll also supply with some paleo news to get the fuck away from integument debates

Evidence suggesting oviraptorosaurs incubated their eggs like modern birds (no suprise, but it's good to have some solid proof behind it.)
Oldest precedent of the caecilian family of amphibians found
Brazilian cynodont might actually be the first of a species found outside Africa instead of separate species as previously thought
Possible new mastodon species or ancestor found in Tennessee (I haven't seen any other articles about this, if you have some do show me.)

Also, while Dinosaurs was a general title because I assumed not many really gave a shit about prehistoric critters other than dinos, feel free to post about other stuff (as long as you aren't misidentifying it as a dinosaur lol).
 
Un Platano dijo:
No, I'm certain that it was a dinosaur, something that surprised me based on its appearance. It was an early one too.

I actually find synapsids a lot more interesting than the dinosaurs. It's a bit sad that most people don't care about the paleozoic era at all, and know hardly anything from before the dinosaurs. The paleozoic is way more important in the history of biology than the mesozoic and it's a lot more interesting imo, but content about it is much less accessible and tit isn't represented at all in media, unlike dinosaurs that for whatever reason pervade everyone's conception of ancient animals. Everything between the Cambrian and Permian is so much more diverse than the mesozoic, which only saw 4 significant developments in dinosaurs, birds, mammals somewhat, and flowers. The paleozoic saw so much more.
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The P-T Great Dying excites me in a Fallout or Apocalypse Now kind of way

the only thing that thrived in the Triassic wasteland for millions of years was this fucking mole rat lizard thing

iu
 
Gonna resurrect this thread and see how it goes. I'm a little excited about this discovery because I have some small personal connections to it and was actually able to be present at the naming conference/reveal for the animal this morning.

https://sneed.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/8WtPsJn2kGkdbw82JcZn_g--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/de-DE/homerun/dpa_665/a97c5129946ac6964530ce8ef1f110ad
Suskityrannus hazelae

Basically this discovery is important because it rewrites a lot of what we know about the history of tyrannosaurs and when they first showed up in North America. The study and recent naming of this dinosaur are 21 years in the making and it is great to finally have the data on this creature presented to the public.

If you've been a paleofag for a long time you may have watched the documentary When Dinosaurs Roamed America as a kid. If you remember seeing the scene with those red, feathered raptor-looking things running away from a forest fire, that was Suskityrannus. At the time however, the thing didn't have a name yet and was thought to be a dromaeosaur due to lack of information.
 
My favorite dinosaurs are Utahraptor, Giganotosaurus, and T. Rex

But I want to see some more discussion of the megafauna from the Cenozoic Era

Mammoths, Saber-toothed cats, dire wolves, cave bears, giant eagles, terror birds, plus whatever the fuck kind of animal Andrewsarchus was.

The Pleistocene has the majority of media representation and academic research in this field (second only to the Mesozoic Era), partly because of how recent it was, meaning more stuff got preserved and human prehistory as we now it essentially started in the Pleistocene, although hominid evolution began well before it.

Of course, I welcome discussion of Cenozoic prehistory of any epoch, from the Paleocene to the Pleistocene
 
Owen Grady dijo:
Gonna resurrect this thread and see how it goes. I'm a little excited about this discovery because I have some small personal connections to it and was actually able to be present at the naming conference/reveal for the animal this morning.

https://sneed.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/8WtPsJn2kGkdbw82JcZn_g--~A/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/de-DE/homerun/dpa_665/a97c5129946ac6964530ce8ef1f110ad
Suskityrannus hazelae

Basically this discovery is important because it rewrites a lot of what we know about the history of tyrannosaurs and when they first showed up in North America. The study and recent naming of this dinosaur are 21 years in the making and it is great to finally have the data on this creature presented to the public.

If you've been a paleofag for a long time you may have watched the documentary When Dinosaurs Roamed America as a kid. If you remember seeing the scene with those red, feathered raptor-looking things running away from a forest fire, that was Suskityrannus. At the time however, the thing didn't have a name yet and was thought to be a dromaeosaur due to lack of information.
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Is that the dinosaur where they only had the large forearms discovered and could only guess as to what they belonged to?

My favourite dinosaurs are Tyrannosaurus Rex (because fuck you, I like 'em), Deinonychus for being the true Jurassic Park raptor that casuals have never heard of, Megalosaurus, Coelophysis and Iguanodon.
 
With current knowledge, I'm pretty sure at least some branch of them still exist.

Ever see a chicken, roadrunner or other type of avian? Those are essentially mini-dinosaurs.
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