Difference in romance plot by sexual orientation

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17 de Dic, 2019
I've been reading the Signalis thread in gaming and it made me realize that, at least from examples I remember in media, there is a difference between straight and lesbian relationships in media in regards to conflict preventing the relationship.

In straight relationship story the conflict will usually end in a sacrifice of one of one of the couple while ensuring the other's safety.

In lesbian relationship the couple will usually get together or try to get together even if the consequences to the outside world are dire.

Of course it might be bias in the media I consume, but it raises the question if straight and gay relationship are portrayed as the same in media and if they should.
 
Ever since the smiting of sodom and gommorah, humanity has instictually known that being a fag would lead to catastrophe. This knowledge was hammered so deep into our DNA that even the by-fags-for-fags media can't help but reinforce it.
T. the voices told me
 
In gay relationships there must be a foreword that warns about the "boy x boy action, don't like don't read!"

Jokes aside yeah there are definitely differences in how relationships are portrayed based on the sexual orientation of the characters in media. I would say that is a result of pre existing cliches and expectations/stereotypes, genre conventions as well as the vision the author has regarding the topic and the context in which it was written in. Also whether it is or isn't too goysloppy lol.

On the other hand, media that explores relationships of different sexual orientations will also explore the possible specific challenges in every possible situation, much like there's media that explores the subject of manhood or womanhood even though it's also possible to make a story where it doesn't affect anything if the main character is male or female
 
They're kind of a blur, but there are dozens of plots I've seen on TV where the male protagonist rescues some chick who the villains want to use to bring about the end of the world when it would be better to just fucking kill her.

In lesbian relationship the couple will usually get together or try to get together even if the consequences to the outside world are dire.
the "kill your gays" trope is still definitely a thing in mainstream entertainment
Yes, this "consequences to the outside world" part makes me think the OP compares mainstream straight entertainment to gay romantic genre fiction made by gays for gays. Instead, he should look at straight romance.
 
I think we as humans seek what we lack, down to our very morals and view of the world around us. For example, Nietzsche spoke of (very simply, I'm aware there's more to his writing) extreme self-empowerment. Yet he followed around some woman for a good chunk of his life and eventually went catatonic, quite literally dependent on those around him. Christians, Muslims, and (to a very small extent) Jews tend to have a pattern where the worst people who fuck up the most tend to be the strongest believers and strive the furthest to correct themselves.

All this is to say, when Lesbians make love stories where the 2 stick it out through thick and thin, I'm sure it's because most of their relationships are REALLY not like that at all. I don't mean that as a funny haha or anything, I feel bad for them. Their relationships tend to be super abusive.
 
Yes, this "consequences to the outside world" part makes me think the OP compares mainstream straight entertainment to gay romantic genre fiction made by gays for gays. Instead, he should look at straight romance.
I'll give my examples but warning, extremely cringe animu taste:
* Signalis: Gay love causes reality to break down.
* Madoka Magica: Gay love inverts the entire fabric of the universe.
* Utena: Gay love causes reality to break down.
* Last of Us Part 2: Gay love prevent one person with immunity to zombie plague to have children.
* Life is Strange: Gay love causes hurricane to hit town.

Meanwhile, "man sacrifices himself to save his love" appears so much it's nearly a coin flip in most media.
 
In straight relationship story the conflict will usually end in a sacrifice of one of one of the couple while ensuring the other's safety.

In lesbian relationship the couple will usually get together or try to get together even if the consequences to the outside world are dire.
I think it's largely because innately, a straight relationship is part of a storytelling cycle - it's the foundation of a legacy, principally, the start of a family, a tangible symbol of the union of two characters. It's a component of the coming of age in the romantic sense: boy because man, man gets the woman, man and woman have children, responsibilities begin, and the cycle begins anew. At least in traditional storytelling, the gender difference means the male is the seeker of love, and has to earn it and the responsibilities and duty it entails, to prove himself worthy, where the female is the end goal, either in union or in sacrifice.

Gay relationships are more complicated to depict satisfyingly in that, dramatically, the story basically ends when the two characters end up together, because the family and all that entails is impossible. I've noticed some films, like Knock at the Cabin, play with idea of adoption, but storytellingwise it doesn't quite work because, ethics aside, an adopted or surrogate-born child is not the continuation of the union of two characters. Delaying or making the union of two gay characters as difficult or tumultuous as possible thus is usually the only real way to introduce conflict to the relationship. From what I see, in gay romance the conflict is largely about self-acceptance from one or both parties, which can result in success or failure, where with lesbian romance, especially nowdays, is often overtly feminist (hence depicted much more often), the emphasis being on defying male or patriarchal impositions and expectations, and that the purity or 'truth' of the love self-justifies whatever complications it causes.

And sadly, the reality is there is truth in stereotypes - even removing children from the equation, idealistic gay relationships are often hard for general audiences to accept because they're kind of rare. 'Experts' say it's about society and internalized homophobia and whatever but I think it's simply a product of what happens when two people of the same gender don't have to compromise on their monkey brain behavior - lesbians can end up indulging in the worst aspects of female socialization when dealing with each other, while gays often end up connecting over sex (or drugs) and little else.
 
It could be a statistical bias you know? How many portrayals of of straighst there are in media? Well, a shit tone and a huge part of them are so badly done that I would never want to be a part of such relationships IRL because they are either retarded or unrealistic or one of the two is braindead NPC. Sometimes, we get to see some interesting depicttions but they are rare as any good thing is rare.

Now for gays, statistically there is much less gay characters in media than straight characters. Even less is the number of gay relationships. Even less is a number of gay relationships which aren't shoven to the media for "dIvErSiTY". Even less is a number of gay relationships which aren't super sacharine totally unbelievable shit because you know gays could do nothing wrong. So what is left? Not much.
 
Utena: Gay love causes reality to break down.
You're thinking of the movie, and even then "reality" is in actuality a "dead" world outside of the coffin that calls itself a school. The TV series is about a platonic friendship (maybe romantic but ultimately chaste) where the new girl goes out of her way to help the one girl she formed a close bond with out of her abusive relationships and get her to "wake up" and take control of her own life. Both have their own issues and flaws, but together they made enough of a difference to change and move forward.

Lesbian relationship or not, RGU doesn't fall into the self-entitlement delusional traps modern "uwu lesbians~" works do. Mainly because it was open about how delusional and toxic the characters were and they needed to "graduate" and get out into the real world. Real lesbians (and troons) don't like this lesson and outright ignore it so they can fetishize it because they don't or can't understand the true nature of Utena and Anthy's sisterhood, which is of support and unconditional (not sexual) love, which came to be from acceptance.
 
In lesbian relationship the couple will usually get together or try to get together even if the consequences to the outside world are dire.
* Madoka Magica: Gay love inverts the entire fabric of the universe.
Funny you mention that. When I read this before leaving for work, the first thing on my mind was Madoka Magika as an exception to the rule given above.

If you read the OG series as a lesbian relationship, since it's kept ambiguous if the heroine is motivated by romantic feelings or mere friendship, then it's the power of homo-love that's trying to stop the awful things from happening, not a direct cause of it. In fact, it basically falls into the "Character sacrifices themselves so that Love Interest can live on in peace" that you think is indicative of straight relationships.

The sequel movies, on the other hand, turn her into a psycho lesbian with Satanic overtones who becomes Queen Bitch of the Universe so she can rewrite the entire universe for no reason other than so she can be with her beloved, so perhaps you're onto something there.
 
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I'd argue that's because normies are drawn to grandiose and angst components of said stories, with the "lesbian" part being added spice. There are other boring happy lesbian stories that few non-lesbians are interested. Also the "love causes bad things to happen" is also a trope in f/m stories. Love being a catalyst for disaster or the thing that saves the day is nothing new.
 
Funny you mention that. When I read this before leaving for work, the first thing on my mind was Madoka Magika as an exception to the rule given above.

If you read the OG series as a lesbian relationship, since it's kept ambiguous if the heroine is motivated by romantic feelings or mere friendship, then it's the power of homo-love that's trying to stop the awful things from happening, not a direct cause of it. In fact, it basically falls into the "Character sacrifices themselves so that Love Interest can live on in peace" that you think is indicative of straight relationships.

The sequel movies, on the other hand, turn her into a psycho lesbian with Satanic overtones who becomes Queen Bitch of the Universe so she can rewrite the entire universe for no reason other than so she can be with her beloved, so perhaps you're onto something there.
That's a huge misconception. Homura went psycho because she was already a witch. She trapped people in her world because that's what witches do.
 
It could be a statistical bias you know? How many portrayals of of straighst there are in media? Well, a shit tone and a huge part of them are so badly done that I would never want to be a part of such relationships IRL because they are either retarded or unrealistic or one of the two is braindead NPC. Sometimes, we get to see some interesting depicttions but they are rare as any good thing is rare.

Now for gays, statistically there is much less gay characters in media than straight characters. Even less is the number of gay relationships. Even less is a number of gay relationships which aren't shoven to the media for "dIvErSiTY". Even less is a number of gay relationships which aren't super sacharine totally unbelievable shit because you know gays could do nothing wrong. So what is left? Not much.
I don't know about lesbian relationships in media, but there's no good reason to ever write a gay male relationship. At the absolute best it's just going to be a worse and more uncomfortable version of the rival (amicable or not) relationship, the student/mentor relationship, etc.

There's nothing you can find in any gay romance that isn't done ten times better in the average Shounen anime.

I'd assume that something similar goes for women, like the guy said about Utena or whatever it was. That sounded good.
 
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It depends on how you read a love story. Most lesbian shit I’ve had the misfortune of reading really comes across as unsure of what it wants to be. It forces characters into a relationship with no real thought into it. It’ll mash a platonic friendship into a romantic or even erotic relationship when that doesn’t make sense in setting or without modern views on relationships.

The against the world it would sacrifice the world for elements like others have said kind of screams like the internal doubts manifesting.

When a man or woman sacrifices themselves in a straight relationship there is an assumption that the surviving partner will care for their children and there is some benefit to the sacrifice. This is an almost historical message with men having to go to war for the tribe (and possibly dying) and women giving birth to sustain and grow the tribe (and possibly die). Sacrifice for a straight couple means continuation.

Why would a lesbian couple sacrifice? Their choice is a dead end. Adoption leads to questions like.
 
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