Depression-- Dissatisfaction or Disease?

  • 🇵🇦 Nuestro primer dominio localizado está en español en kiwifarms.pa. Our first localized domain is on Spanish on kiwifarms.pa.
  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
I have never made a deep thoughts thread before so any authority higher than me can move it if inappropriate.
I recently watched a video on Youtube from a right wing guy about depression being more of a choice rather than a mental illness.
The video had me rethink how depression is typically seen from a psychological standpoint. Is it really a mental illness or just an epidemic of dissatisfaction due to the overload of information from the Internet, social media, etc.? If it is dissatisfaction, what can we do to possibly relieve society from the "doomer" mindset
I have never made a deep thoughts thread before so any authority higher than me can move it if inappropriate.
I recently watched a video on Youtube from a right wing guy about depression being more of a choice rather than a mental illness.
The video had me rethink how depression is typically seen from a psychological standpoint. Is it really a mental illness or just an epidemic of dissatisfaction due to the overload of information from the Internet, social media, etc.? If it is dissatisfaction, what can we do to possibly relieve society from the "doomer" mindset?
Both... biological or depression from a situation that can’t be changed, not much makes it better except medication because usually it’s an imbalance in the brain or whatever the cause improving. Non-biological depression I definitely think people can choose to sometimes try to make it better if the things contributing to said depression are changeable. Example- I was depressed when I injured my back because I felt useless and had to rely on others to do many of normal tasks like cooking etc because in order to get better I could not do anything. It SUCKED, but in that situation the choice to make the depression get better was to just deal with the depression until I healed.
 
If there is a chemical imbalance causing depression, then it must be produced in response to stimuli. I don't believe the brain just goes haywire for no identifiable reason, unless you really are that unlucky when it comes to the genetic lottery. But there are far too many cases of depression for that to be the case.
Could be a lot of factors, people are dormant and don't get a lot of sunlight nowadays. Could be gases from materials, preservatives, blue light from screens fucking with us more than we think.
 
Depression is a biological state of disease and anyone who thinks otherwise is a retard and never has had depression.

There is something physically wrong, as without medication, I could basically sleep for days and days and not be tired. There is no 'logic' way out of it. It is hard to put into words the physical exhaustion depression brings you. Not to mention the co-morbidity with anxiety. It is functionally a damaged circuit in the brain on repeat, a misinterpretation of the world and of social interactions, of being unable to analyze your situation without negative thought.

It is not a state of feeling sad. It is a void, an empty pit of nothingness. Its a black whole that sucks you in, unable to feel anything but singular self loathing. It is exhaustion so deep and wide even showering or brushing your teeth seems like a feat. No sleep can cure it, no rest is long enough. It weighs on you. Day in and day out.

Medication barely keeps it at bay, it only serves to make you minimally functional. Not to mention the exhausting fact you have to hide your state from everyone because no one understands what mental illness is unless they have it. Not to mention nobody really gives a shit.

Depression is also circular, having the same issues struggling to resolve them, so your social safety networks eventually break. Its something you need external help with most because you cannot accurately decide your state of affairs. Its something you need medicated otherwise the physical exhaustion will grind you down. Every day begins to run into each other, and your thoughts are constantly identical and unbreakable, which begins to affect your memory.

Not to mention a lot of people don't seek treatment because they don't know that this is not normal. They feel like everyone feels like them or the way they're feeling is correct because they completely misinterpret what people are saying.

'Sadness' is not a component of depression. 'Abject misery' is the component of depression. Emotional pain so potent you want to fucking die. There is no 'choice' in depression.

"HEY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE CONSTANTLY EXHAUSTED, YOUR EMOTIONAL STATE PURE MISERY WITH PAIN SO BAD YOU WISH YOU WERE DEAD, COMPLETELY UNABLE TO ACCURATELY JUDGE THE WORLD AROUND YOU? Oh by the way, nobody actually gives a shit, its superficial sympathy and when they get tired of pretending to care they'll just avoid you."

"Sure, sign me up!"

There is no choice involved. There is no way to 'think' your way out of it. The circuits in your brain are stuck in one perpetual way and they keep firing in that way over and over and over and over again, until medication, electroshock therapy, your own neurotransmitters or a fucking bullet stops it. There is no on or off switch for depression. There is no choice involved.

Its fucking offensive (and I rarely get offended) when people say "Depression is a choice."

Oh is it now? Well, I'd rather not feel like shit, misinterpret social cues constantly, be so exhausted I can sleep for three days in a row and still be tired, have my brain constantly worry about the same shit with no resolution, have memory issues and know nothing but a complete emotional abyss where I have to imagine physical pain to distract me from what I'm going through. I choose to do all that. Just like you choose to have this lead pipe in my hand knock all your fucking teeth out. See, that's your choice, because you opened up your faggot mouth.

And the most hilarious part is NOBODY CARES. No one. What benefit is there to saying "I have depression". You know the response from people in charge was when people came up to them saying they had massive depressive episodes or lived with depression and mental illness? "I don't care, you're always going to have that. Find a way to get it done or you're done." Wow, you really get a lot of sympathy! Its amazing. That's what I heard first hand from some of my peers.

So no, its not a choice. Its fucking retarded to think its a choice, when society as a whole cares extremely superficially about it. And if you're a man with depression? You're super fucked. Now NO ONE really cares. You gotta pay people to care. What sort of fucking benefit is there? Explain this to me.

Ass pats on the internet? If you feel good from people feeling sorry for you on the internet, you don't have depression. That's a fucking joke. Get the fuck off Twitter.
 
That video conflates chemical depression, psychological depression, and the mood known as depression.

So does psychiatry.

Much of their "medical disease" theory is pretty iffy and has much less firm a leg to stand on than real neurology. And it has been many times more so since Prozac came along and started pulling in mega shekels for Dr. Goldrosenfinkelblatt and the small army of pharmaceutical pushers who treat him to catered lunch every day.

Depression is a biological state of disease and anyone who thinks otherwise is a retard and never has had depression.

Retard here: Don't you geniuses usually smirk about how it's "No True Scotsman" to make bad arguments like the one you just shrieked?
 
Última edición:
Both sides are equally bad. It's dumb to deny that depression can't be from bad genes by default. but it's equally bad to deny that some choices can increase the risk of it.
The thread stopped because nobody want to be banned by the Reddit janny. Holy fuck.
 
I suppose its the nature of my own depressive attitude, but I lean ever more on that theory that depression is actually a biological self-destruct mechanism designed to kill off people who are unsuccessful or otherwise a drain on the resources of the larger group. There is precedent for this sort of behavior at the cellular level, apoptosis, or controlled cell death. Its not much of a stretch for me to think that this kind of thing can be upscaled into a desire for a person to end their own life and/or be debilitated to the point where something else ends their life. We don't hear about depression in nature since anything that gets depressed in that kind of environment wouldn't survive for very long.

Why are so many people affected by this mechanism then? Its not exactly hard to imagine considering the world we live in is nothing like the natural world and has a completely different set of prioities attached to it. You could be an insanely successful person, rich beyond your wildest dreams and banging hot chicks every night, but your body is still telling you that you're a useless failure who should kill yourself because it doesn't understand how our parameters for success have changed.

On the more pessimistic side it could be argued that society has become so degenerate that the people it produces actually are functionally useless on some objective level. Either that or contamination from various pollutants has corrupted our ability to reproduce properly. Its worth noting that the vast majority of damaged, cancerous cells will undergo apoptosis before they begin to reproduce. If our bodies detect through some unknown means that we have likewise become biologically flawed, walking cancer then this would logically trigger our own self-destruct mechanism.

I think this theory is strayed away from very heavily in modern psychology becuase its seen as encouraging depressed people to commit suicide for the good of the rest of society. I somewhat disagree with that point of view; just because your body thinks you need to die doesn't make it objectively correct, people are still to some extent free to make what they want of their life. It just seems ridiculous to me to pretend depression is some kind of random mental illness or disease or state of mind when it has a very clear pattern and seems to be very deep seated in human biology.

The overwhelming majority of resources we've committed to fighting it have proven mostly useless. In my opinion that's evidence that what we're looking at has to go deeper than just what psychology and our still underdeveloped science of neurology have found so far. Of course, some could also turn around and say that all of that wasted effort is evidence that depression straight up doesn't exist and the whole thing is a wild goose chase. I find that hard to believe though; I don't think this many people can be afflicted by hysteria like that.
 
You'll know depression when you have it. Yes, there is something wrong with you, and it needs to be fixed - but sometimes it can't and in a world where you can still be born with one leg, or half a brain, or half a person attached to you, it should be no surprise.

Depression is like a void in your soul. Nothing matters. There's nothing to live for, nothing worth doing, no point to anything. It feels like an empty yawning maw in your heart, clawing at your lungs, dragging your insides down, where there is nothing. It feels like it will never be filled and there's no point in trying. Your life and others are utterly meaningless and it doesn't feel possible that anybody else feels worse than you do. It can last an hour or months. You function, just, because others expect you to but you'd rather lie in bed all day and you resent everyone for it. It's completely irrational and knowing that doesn't help. Nobody would choose to feel this way. Some people, usually men, have it and refuse to acknowledge it, because they're obsessed with the idea that it's seen as weak. And for most functioning people. telling anybody else is the last thing you will do - in part because it's impossible or embarrassing to describe exactly how powerless or worthless you feel.

I suspect the primary cause is loss or denial of major investment. You spend much of your time and effort on something and/or anticipated doing so and it gets taken away from you. But it can just occur from unexpected places, forgotten parts of your life that flair up at the wrong time.

The problem today is that, yes, dickheads use the word 'depression' as a shield or an excuse and get applauded for being brave on Twitter. But this is how people work, if they need an exit, or a ladder step, they'll take advantage of good people's empathy. But the hard part, the actual 4Head move is recognizing that depression exists, and some people have it, some people don't, and it will take hard work and intelligence to seperate the two, as opposed to taking the easy way out and assuming it's either a hoax or an endemic.

Your man Paul Watson thrives off being contrarian, and while I don't have a problem with his platform, it can mean he is motivated to say things just because it's his brand.
 
Última edición:
Honestly, I believe that if you're NOT depressed as fuck about the state of the world right now, something is wrong with you. Something much worse than depression. I don't think it's fair to say that I have a (((chemical imbalance))) when I can perfectly articulate exactly why I feel (or worse, don't feel) the way that I do about things. I could seriously write a Tolstoy-length book on why life is a duckshit brownie. It looks like a brownie, it smells like a brownie, but you know there's duck shit in it, and the harder you examine the brownie, the more duck shit particles (sharticles?) you see. I'm not going to pretend as though I know the exact ratio of good to bad in this world, but no matter how great that brownie could taste, it will forever be tainted by a simply unacceptable level of duck shit. No chocolatey aroma or sugary taste is going to make up for it.

I could be the richest man on earth, have everything I ever wanted, become grand poobah of the universe, and I'll still be spending 16 hours a day in bed. I'm still going to die and everything I will ever say, do, or think will have been for absolutely fucking nothing. There is an overabundance of malice in this world, and it's getting worse every single day. There are still people who deserve to be yeeted from the mortal coil, and they're still walking around the crust of the earth as we speak. Most people are still retarded as fuck, and being led by people who are evil as fuck. All is temporary, and in turn, worthless. Realizing these important facts about the universe we live in should not condemn me to the label of "mentally ill". I believe I have earned my right to be upset.

Taking the good with the bad, keeping your chin up, obsessively forcing yourself to think positive, and practicing breathing techniques, is all a cope. They are several different ways that you can use to deceive yourself into believing that maybe things aren't so bad. Much the same as with any other lie, it is unsustainable. I think, in a twisted sort of way, it's a little bit healthier simply to accept that you are miserable. Do what you can to make things better, but don't try to trick yourself. That can never work.

Given the state of the world is not exactly hard to think of countless reasons why people would be unhappy. I've begun to question the chemical imbalance side of the debate - why are our brains so poor at maintaining a base line of homeostasis? If there is a chemical imbalance causing depression, then it must be produced in response to stimuli. I don't believe the brain just goes haywire for no identifiable reason, unless you really are that unlucky when it comes to the genetic lottery. But there are far too many cases of depression for that to be the case.
Very much on point, but I think there's a little of both columns, there. There is depression in which you have unfixable brain problems, and there is depression where you realize, "Holy shit, life really is this fucking bad!".

I suppose its the nature of my own depressive attitude, but I lean ever more on that theory that depression is actually a biological self-destruct mechanism designed to kill off people who are unsuccessful or otherwise a drain on the resources of the larger group. There is precedent for this sort of behavior at the cellular level, apoptosis, or controlled cell death. Its not much of a stretch for me to think that this kind of thing can be upscaled into a desire for a person to end their own life and/or be debilitated to the point where something else ends their life. We don't hear about depression in nature since anything that gets depressed in that kind of environment wouldn't survive for very long.
Medically speaking, you're pretty close to the mark, but I don't think depression necessarily exists to weed people out.

If you have MDD, your brain is damaging itself. Major Depression causes the loss of neuronal density in the dentate gyrus, and the hippocampus (there's some debate as to whether or not they're two parts of a whole), by way of inducing apoptosis. I'd argue that function is built in to try and kill off a particularly traumatic memory engram (or the formation of more traumatic memories), as the dentate gyrus is where the first steps of memory formation begin, and the rest of the hippocampus is where your memories are consolidated. The problem is that this mechanism is completely unregulated, and is basically like chemotherapy for your brain. Worse yet, loss of hippocampal density on its own causes depression. This creates a feedback loop of your brain trying to kill a problem, by worsening the problem. There are drugs for this, like Psilocybin and NSI-189, which release Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor and Nerve Growth Factor to stimulate the proliferation of new neurons in the hippocampus, but it really seems like an uphill battle in the grand scheme, even though they do appear to help.

I have background in pharmacokinetics, so I can say with some degree of authority that you should probably NEVER take antidepressants (ESPECIALLY first-third generation). The way they work is simply ineffective, and their mechanisms of action are almost always directed towards the wrong systems (serotonergic/dopaminergic). Trying to modulate/inhibit/enhance those systems is a fucking FANTASTIC way to permanently medically retard people, or give them heart valve damage, but it's not going to make you any less depressed, just more dull. Apathy, anhedonia, and sadness are symptoms, not the disease. It's not like Big Pharma actually wants you healthy, anyway. Where's the money in that?
 
Última edición:
Depression (like anxiety), there are different reason s for it.

some previous posts have mentioned the biological parts of it, the brain chemistry etc. And youd have to agree there are situations where the symptom is going to show up and you have to treat the roo t cause.

I guess I'm talking about PMS. You can't really do much about that, you either treat the symptom best you can... Or remove the problem

The other side is simply poor diet, lack of exercise and perhaps a egocentric way of looking at things.

my experience of people with personality disorders, the latter is much, much more common.
But as long as we live in society that wants the soma, and have plenty of bigpharmas fulfilling that want... What can you do?
 
For every dumbass ITT saying "muh diet n exercise"...

Why are many fat slobs so happy all the damn time?? Why do some athletes an hero??
There will never be a 100% in anything.
There were people who survived the Hiroshima nuke explosion and made it to the 21st century, doesn't mean that nukes are good for you.
For every super happy fat person, you have a bunch who aren't.

A healthy diet and lifestyle won't eliminate 100% of depression in everybody but it will help a lot because you're taking better care of your body, your brain being a part of that body.
 
There will never be a 100% in anything.
There were people who survived the Hiroshima nuke explosion and made it to the 21st century, doesn't mean that nukes are good for you.
For every super happy fat person, you have a bunch who aren't.

A healthy diet and lifestyle won't eliminate 100% of depression in everybody but it will help a lot because you're taking better care of your body, your brain being a part of that body.
I'd like to reiterate the point about how do you know they are happy.

I had a boss who was all smiles (and a bloater), when competency testing came in to check up on why the EHO keep on turning up... Guess what he went off sick, due to stress.

exercise and diet are important in mental well being.

This isn't a moral stance, this is science.

it's like someone saying 'I suffer from anxiety ', that is a symptom. Like depression. What is causing it? Is it inborn condition with the physical self, psychological trauma, or drinking gallons of coffee and wanking all night?
 
If you have MDD, your brain is damaging itself. Major Depression causes the loss of neuronal density in the dentate gyrus, and the hippocampus (there's some debate as to whether or not they're two parts of a whole), by way of inducing apoptosis. I'd argue that function is built in to try and kill off a particularly traumatic memory engram (or the formation of more traumatic memories), as the dentate gyrus is where the first steps of memory formation begin, and the rest of the hippocampus is where your memories are consolidated. The problem is that this mechanism is completely unregulated, and is basically like chemotherapy for your brain. Worse yet, loss of hippocampal density on its own causes depression. This creates a feedback loop of your brain trying to kill a problem, by worsening the problem. There are drugs for this, like Psilocybin and NSI-189, which release Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor and Nerve Growth Factor to stimulate the proliferation of new neurons in the hippocampus, but it really seems like an uphill battle in the grand scheme, even though they do appear to help.
When I compared it to apoptosis I certainly wasn't thinking there was a literal connection, but this does fill in a lot of the blanks. I can still see it as still potentially being a mechanism to weed people out, IE, anyone who isn't lucky enough to be a psychopath who can just move on, but in the way its described it seems more like a failsafe with a very high chance to just debilitate the person in general.

I wonder if this function was more useful during an era when humans had lower brain density, or something. IE, less opportunities for this kind of damage to just spread over a wide area. People from previous eras seemed to be able to get over unimaginable horrors rather easily while people in the modern day can be permanently crippled by a single bad event in their life. Maybe this is the reason the human race isn't very intelligent in the first place.
 
the worst part about depression is how pathetic and subtle it is. It's one thing if you have chadophrenia or chadtism, but virginpression is unfortunately the loser's disease that makes you an unproductive and unfunctional loser.
 
If you're actually paying attention to the world around you of course you're going to be horribly depressed. This planet is populated mostly by assholes and retards and there is very little most of any of us can do about it.

However instead of wallowing in that fact like a pig in shit, you can eat right, exercise regularly, avoid the propaganda, stop paying attention to anything the shitflinging population thinks is a good idea and sit back and laugh at the shit show.
 
superficial sympathy and when they get tired of pretending to care they'll just avoid you."
Bruh, too real right there. Everyone is all "support people with mental illness" or someone dies via suicide and people all post "talk to your friends!! Check on them!!" But it's all superficial, not a lot of people want to make the effort to actually support someone through something that is going to be a long term illness.

Anyone who says depression is a choice has never been depressed. Actually, truly depressed. There's a difference between suffering from depression and having short term periods of depressed mood via things like grief. It's similar to how there are diagnostic differences when it comes to PTSD to discern between the disorder itself and what they call (I think) an Acute Stress Reaction. Basically if your traumatic symptoms last for less than a month, it's not considered PTSD, because it's pretty much expected for anyone to suffer from some kind of traumatic reaction after experiencing some things in life. But not everyone will go on to develop something lifelong like PTSD.

Events in your life may make you feel depressed for a little, like the grief of losing a loved one or losing a job, but it's no where near what it's like suffering from full blown clinical depression and the complete lack of understanding a lot of people have of what that entails can be so frustrating. When it's a struggle to do basic things like have a shower or brush your teeth, leaving you feeling even worse about yourself because you realise how disgusting you are as a human for not doing those things- or when you're lying awake in bed at night ruminating over the same shit over and over, digging yourself deeper into the depression but you just can't physically stop your brain from doing it, that shit is not a choice. The only choice you have in that situation is to choose to not beat yourself up over the fact it's a struggle so you don't go in the circle of becoming even more depressed because you're depressed about your depressive symptoms (:stress:).
 
Given the state of the world is not exactly hard to think of countless reasons why people would be unhappy. I've begun to question the chemical imbalance side of the debate - why are our brains so poor at maintaining a base line of homeostasis? If there is a chemical imbalance causing depression, then it must be produced in response to stimuli. I don't believe the brain just goes haywire for no identifiable reason, unless you really are that unlucky when it comes to the genetic lottery. But there are far too many cases of depression for that to be the case.
Humans weren't made for civilization, and especially not the information age.
The stimulus could be from being stuck in a dead end job 40 hours a week, social media, muh diet and exercise, or a combination of dozens of these factors.
Alternatively: if every day is a literal fight for survival, you have no time to be depressed.
If its from modern stimuli, it would be impossible to fix without a real apocalyptic scenario (and you'd have real reasons to be depressed then!), so pharma gotta blame/fix what they can see - the chemicals.
Then, it is both dissatisfaction, of often unalterable, unblameable environmental conditions, and disorder, ie can't handle modern life like other people (seem to) do.
For reference, lactose intolerance has been the norm for most of human existence, and there's theories on how ADD/ADHD comes from men unable to handle sitting in a classroom all day long, but both are seen as disorders by our standards.

[Of course, it could be largely just one of dissatisfaction or disease. Being an autistic neet is the former, while pure (epi-)genetic factors is the latter. Yet outsiders will see both as just "depression" due to human limitations.]
 
Última edición:
Atrás
Top Abajo