Debate user The_Cowcel about incels.

[Duke Nukem]

Censorship of the internet is what has lead to me becoming increasingly isolated. There's nowhere to go and nothing to do outside, everything is expensive and boring. Whenever I go out I'm just trapped as a passive observer in my own life.

I've been improving myself near constantly without success. Am I meant to just suffer silently without seeking any sort of outside input?

I don't think it's that unreasonable to want some direction, advice and the ability to bounce ideas off of someone. I'm stuck driving everyone off because of my desperation for connection.

I completely understand where you're coming from. As I said, my parents have been married for decades and for a while, I saw that as the model I should follow. But of course it didn't work out that way. In fact, a lot of us under 40 have been denied the opportunities that previous generations have taken for granted. Some of that leaks into the dating aspect.

The reality is, it probably won't ever happen if you're past the age of 30 and have little to no experience. Nobody is going to want to date a 30+ year old autistic man who doesn't have much to bring to the table, and especially one who rants on internet forums about his lack of "getting some."

Besides, what is it you want? A girlfriend? Marriage? Or just casual encounters?

Figure yourself out, understand what you're looking for, and understand your own limitations. Hell, maybe a girlfriend isn't for you and you refuse to accept it because of some misplaced notion of "societal expectations."

if you truly love a woman she'll always be a ten in your eyes no matter how she looks like

As a 30+ year old autistic man who loves trains and Sonic, I suppose I can't really expect to do better than a homeless fentanyl junkie slut who lives in the dumpster behind McDonald's.

I am going to tell you what happens if you, personally, will get a girlfriend as you are.

You will be joyful, at least for the first couple of weeks. Then, you will start to wonder: why? Why is she attracted to me? What is she looking for? How do I keep measuring up against other men to keep her? When will she leave? You'll start to be consumed by these thoughts. You'll let them take you over. You'll become more desperate or more controlling. The woman, after reassuring she won't leave you for 15 times in 2 weeks, realizes she can't be your therapist and fix you. Or she is afraid of the increased control over her, or jealousy of others you express, and even if she tries to keep you from obsessing, the thoughts come back and you're back to obsessing and demanding things like her not seeing any male, ever, or shaming her into wearing the most covering outfit you can make her wear (even if she dresses modestly already). She will leave you out of fear or being in a situation she has to constantly appease someone over and over every minute of the day, someone who just doesn't trust her.


This will happen because it isn't about the woman, as you said. It is about the reassurance to yourself that you can get a woman. You're trying to prove this to yourself, you're fixated to the point you're defending a domestic terrorist because it covers up your own insecurities about yourself. You know it isn't about the woman herself, you know it's you. As soon as you manage to get a woman, your new goal is panicking to keep that woman, and the self hatred and self obsessive cycle starts again because you didn't fix your brain, you applied a bandage to a broken leg. Consider defeating the dragon within yourself, @The_Cowcel , your obsession with hating yourself will become your downfall in due time if not.

And even worse, she'll leave you for someone far worse than you as a final "fuck you" to your one and only chance of having a relationship.

This is the problem. You've equated having a life with having a relationship. I'm not suggesting you give up on life but to "giving up" on trying to get a girl. I know it sounds insane but trust me, try it for a year and see what happens.

He's probably watched too many Judd Apatow movies to take honest life advice. But just in case, he should probably give up for good.

At the end of the day, @The_Cowcel, you're just a hopeless sperg. Like me.

 

[The_Cowcel]

Besides, what is it you want? A girlfriend? Marriage? Or just casual encounters?

Whatever I can get really. I'm not expecting much.

Figure yourself out, understand what you're looking for, and understand your own limitations. Hell, maybe a girlfriend isn't for you and you refuse to accept it because of some misplaced notion of "societal expectations."

I don't see much to figure out about myself, I know what I want I just can't seem to get it. If getting a girlfriend "isn't for me" then what am I left with? basically nothing.

Go to a therapist and stop treating everyone around you like one. Clearly you have depression of some sort and whining online does not help.

I recently started therapy again and I've spent years going in the past. None of my past therapists were ever able to actually help me with any of my problems, they just wore down me down with the same sort of advice I'd heard everywhere else about finding something I enjoy that puts me around other people, but because there's nothing I enjoy I usually just go to whatever kind of group I'm told to and end up barely socialize if at all. I go back to therapy and tell the therapist how it went and he either says to keep trying or try something else and regardless of what I do the results stay the same. Just wasted time and money without any connections made.

Then there are other things you're not improving, that you need to improve to succeed. I don't see you suffering silently, I see you getting MATI

Like what? I'm open to improving things if I can see them being a problem.

Nigger, people in this thread have been letting you "bounce ideas off" them and many have given you legitimate advice. You reject all of it because it all requires that you change something about yourself. That's just too much of an ask for someone so wrapped up in their ego such as you.

This isn't some strategy game where you can brainstorm ideas and unlock new tactics or some shit. These are regular ass people you're talking about here. If you're a revolting asshole with no interesting qualities, nobody's going to be attracted to you.
Fix your broken ass mind first. A girl isn't going to fix it for you.

One of the common theme I've hard from people about dating is that I somehow need to be "interesting" but I'm never told what to do to become interesting while being wanted? What interests could I get to appeal to women?

You will be joyful, at least for the first couple of weeks. Then, you will start to wonder: why? Why is she attracted to me? What is she looking for? How do I keep measuring up against other men to keep her? When will she leave? You'll start to be consumed by these thoughts. You'll let them take you over. You'll become more desperate or more controlling. The woman, after reassuring she won't leave you for 15 times in 2 weeks, realizes she can't be your therapist and fix you. Or she is afraid of the increased control over her, or jealousy of others you express, and even if she tries to keep you from obsessing, the thoughts come back and you're back to obsessing and demanding things like her not seeing any male, ever, or shaming her into wearing the most covering outfit you can make her wear (even if she dresses modestly already). She will leave you out of fear or being in a situation she has to constantly appease someone over and over every minute of the day, someone who just doesn't trust her.

And? what would the alternative be? Doing nothing at all to keep her from leaving me once a better option comes along? Of course I'd be doing everything I could to keep her and to get rid of outside influences that could turn her against me or seduce her. I can't imagine ever trusting a woman fully, they just have so much more leverage in relationships now days due to their ability to find another man at the drop of a hat meanwhile I've dedicated my life to getting a woman without so much as a first date. Is it really that unreasonable for me to be paranoid, especially given that people tend to like me less the better they get to know me?

This will happen because it isn't about the woman, as you said. It is about the reassurance to yourself that you can get a woman. You're trying to prove this to yourself, you're fixated to the point you're defending a domestic terrorist because it covers up your own insecurities about yourself. You know it isn't about the woman herself, you know it's you. As soon as you manage to get a woman, your new goal is panicking to keep that woman, and the self hatred and self obsessive cycle starts again because you didn't fix your brain, you applied a bandage to a broken leg. Consider defeating the dragon within yourself, @The_Cowcel , your obsession with hating yourself will become your downfall in due time if not.

Don't most men try to avoid their woman leaving them and try to preemptively find replacements for if and when that does happen? Women have very little reason to be loyal now days knowing how easily they can get a new man.

I don't hate myself, I'm just lonely and desire opposite sex affection.

This is the problem. You've equated having a life with having a relationship. I'm not suggesting you give up on life but to "giving up" on trying to get a girl. I know it sounds insane but trust me, try it for a year and see what happens.

I've already been there and tried that, All I did was sit around consooming video games. It wasn't a productive or fulfilling way to live.

The reality is, it probably won't ever happen if you're past the age of 30 and have little to no experience. Nobody is going to want to date a 30+ year old autistic man who doesn't have much to bring to the table, and especially one who rants on internet forums about his lack of "getting some."

Which is why I have spent my youth so hyper fixated on getting a woman despite everyone around me telling me bullshit platitudes that it will "happen one day". I'm running out of time and I need to do everything possible to maximize my chances of success.

Besides, what is it you want? A girlfriend? Marriage? Or just casual encounters?

Anything, I'm desperate and will take anything I can get.

Figure yourself out, understand what you're looking for, and understand your own limitations. Hell, maybe a girlfriend isn't for you and you refuse to accept it because of some misplaced notion of "societal expectations."

If a girlfriend isn't for me then at that point life isn't for me, it's the only thing I really want in life, everything else is just secondary.

He's probably watched too many Judd Apatow movies to take honest life advice. But just in case, he should probably give up for good.

What's the difference between giving up on reproduction and drinking myself to an early death and just flat out suicide? Getting a woman is my main reason to live and everyone is telling me to just give up on this goal that so many others achieve effortlessly even though giving up basically means suicide.

 

[𝕺𝖑' 𝕯𝖎𝖗𝖙𝖞 𝕱𝖆𝖙𝖘𝖔]

What's the difference between giving up on reproduction and drinking myself to an early death and just flat out suicide? Getting a woman is my main reason to live and everyone is telling me to just give up on this goal that so many others achieve effortlessly even though giving up basically means suicide.

Sunk cost fallacy bro

You can choose to live being a miserable, bitter, lonely shell in order to keep feeling like you didnt waste all that time, or you can move on, learn from it, and actually gain a sense of self that allows you to find meaning in life outside the thing you've consistently failed at. Find a productive/creative hobby to spend time on. It doesn't have to be something social at first, just get skills that you can later share and actually have something to talk and connect with people about. Going to a hobby meet up when you're brand new and an autistic sperg who doesn't know what he's doing is fruitless.

 

[Butterschmalz]

Dont these guys get a whole bunch of loveletters?

 

[Duke Nukem]

@The_Cowcel You seriously have no idea what you actually want. A lot of people are trying to tell you stuff that might actually be useful and you're freaking out because it doesn't instantly give you exactly what you want.

If getting a girlfriend isn't for you, then maybe you should consider engaging in activities that have nothing to do with dating or sex. Or maybe you should try dating guys instead. It's pretty clear you're never going to get a girlfriend, why not try that before throwing in the towel entirely?

And the number one reason no girl wants to date you, is that you obsess over it well into your adulthood. You're like that Skippy guy on YouTube except somehow less sympathetic.

And comparing your lack of poon to being a hardcore alcoholic or committing self-deletion? Don't be such a drama queen.

Dont these guys get a whole bunch of loveletters?

Ver archivo adjunto 9193224

He may get a lot of love letters, but the only sex he can get is in the prison showers. Ironic, all the female adoration in the world, and yet he can't take advantage of it.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

nearly 30, age is making me even more desperate as I want to make the most of my youth because I know it's be best opportunity I have to get a woman.

You will never get a woman at this rate because

my lack of interest in anything and my lack of social interactions when I do go out.

I just stay to myself so it's not even interpersonal relationships I find exhausting, just the seeming pointlessness of it all and knowing that I'm just going through the motions because I've been told to, not because I actually want to or expect it to work.

everything is expensive and boring.

there's nothing I enjoy

barely socialize if at all

All I did was sit around consooming video games.

I have spent my youth so hyper fixated on getting a woman

...

Like what? I'm open to improving things if I can see them being a problem.

NEARLY EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID IS A PROBLEM. But most of all, that you blame everyone and everything else for your inability to do/ get the thing you're fixated on, reject any notion of meaningful change yourself, and see relationships/ women as a mathematical equation. You think, "life works like a, b, c," and you refuse to understand that it doesn't - then you turn on the objects of your desire, yet still somehow think that those objects should gravitate to you.

There is no great secret, and you're not being prevented by any external thing from anything. Your own mindset of thinking you know all the answers, refusal to seek any joy that doesn't obviously and directly translate to you getting what you want, and blaming others for not seeing things as you insist on doing, or directly holding them accountable for a unique problem, are some of the big reasons you are suffering. It's one thing to get discouraged (we all do, from time to time, sometimes and some people more than others); it's another to think you know better than everyone else and to denigrate what (whom) you claim to want most.

Listen: it's exhausting and a joy-killer to be around a cranky, suspicious Eeyore with no interests all the time, so why would you expect anyone to gravitate toward that? And other people were not created to save you.

You've got one life. It's yours. No promises it's going to be grand 24/7. But your perspective is taking a bad or difficult time and saying, "fine, then it will have to be not just bad, but absolute hell."

There are people with no food and little water who have a stronger constitution/ higher capacity for joy than this. Your envy, fixation, and insistence on blaming someone else are the hell of your own making.

 

[AMHOLIO]

I can't imagine ever trusting a woman fully,

Don't most men try to avoid their woman leaving them and try to preemptively find replacements for if and when that does happen? Women have very little reason to be loyal now days knowing how easily they can get a new man.

God, male BPD sure is something.

Is it really that unreasonable for me to be paranoid, especially given that people tend to like me less the better they get to know me?

Maybe there's a reason for that, you stupid cock.

 

[Throng of Titans]

maybe you should try dating guys instead

Fags are incredibly picky when they can afford to be, let alone the ones actually trying for a committed relationship and not just sleeping around. This guy would be an even bigger gaycel than he is an incel now.

 

[Duke Nukem]

@The_Cowcel you remind me of a certain pathetic male protagonist from a certain shitty anime series.

And even this guy is more enjoyable to be around than you are being right now.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Fags are incredibly picky when they can afford to be, let alone the ones actually trying for a committed relationship and not just sleeping around. This guy would be an even bigger gaycel than he is an incel now.

Fair enough, but you have to at least eliminate all possibilities before throwing in the towel. But maybe he should consider casual encounters of some sort. I know I rail against mutual desperation but in his case, it's the only way forward.

At least the curse and shame of being an adult male virgin will be gone. He might be one of those weird uptight Christians who think that sex outside of marriage is evil though. Honestly, I think that's his real problem.

 

[The_Cowcel]

If getting a girlfriend isn't for you, then maybe you should consider engaging in activities that have nothing to do with dating or sex. Or maybe you should try dating guys instead. It's pretty clear you're never going to get a girlfriend, why not try that before throwing in the towel entirely?

I have little interest in most activities and am repulsed by the idea of dating and having sex with men. I already have my hobbies but I find them to be generally unfulfilling.

You can choose to live being a miserable, bitter, lonely shell in order to keep feeling like you didnt waste all that time, or you can move on, learn from it, and actually gain a sense of self that allows you to find meaning in life outside the thing you've consistently failed at. Find a productive/creative hobby to spend time on. It doesn't have to be something social at first, just get skills that you can later share and actually have something to talk and connect with people about. Going to a hobby meet up when you're brand new and an autistic sperg who doesn't know what he's doing is fruitless.

I don't understand how to gain a sense of self and I as I said before I don't know what sort of skills to focus on. On top of that my skill seems to plateau pretty low at basically everything I try. I've never had any interest in anything productive of creative largely because I find shame in the inadequacies of my creations rather than any pride for accomplishing it.

And comparing your lack of poon to being a hardcore alcoholic or committing self-deletion? Don't be such a drama queen.

My lack of poon is driving me to alcoholism, I socialize to try to build a social circle but without alcohol I don't have the confidence or willingness to socialize so I end up spending 30 hours per week drunk being a nuisance in public groups online.

Listen: it's exhausting and a joy-killer to be around a cranky, suspicious Eeyore with no interests all the time, so why would you expect anyone to gravitate toward that? And other people were not created to save you.

When I ask about changing that it's always just some vague advice about doing things I enjoy but my enjoyment of anything is impacted by the feeling of dread that comes with never having been able to get a woman and what little I do enjoy is all on my PC.

There is no great secret, and you're not being prevented by any external thing from anything. Your own mindset of thinking you know all the answers, refusal to seek any joy that doesn't obviously and directly translate to you getting what you want, and blaming others for not seeing things as you insist on doing, or directly holding them accountable for a unique problem, are some of the big reasons you are suffering. It's one thing to get discouraged (we all do, from time to time, sometimes and some people more than others); it's another to think you know better than everyone else and to denigrate what (whom) you claim to want most.

I have tried just about everything I've been given direct instructions for, but the reality is most people when they hear my situation just give me nonspecific advice that I don't know how to act on. I've never been taught how to function as a normal adult or how to actually find the joy in life that others say I should be able to have even without a woman.

You've got one life. It's yours. No promises it's going to be grand 24/7. But your perspective is taking a bad or difficult time and saying, "fine, then it will have to be not just bad, but absolute hell."

It's one bad and unchanging time in my life which at this point exceeds the rest of the time of my life and which is preventing me from experiencing any joy and has caused me to lose just about every friend I've ever had while rendering me so socially crippled I can't even try to socialize while sober.

There are people with no food and little water who have a stronger constitution/ higher capacity for joy than this. Your envy, fixation, and insistence on blaming someone else are the hell of your own making.

Hence why sex is at the same level as food and water on Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I'm what happens when that need is denied over a prolonged period of time without ever having tasted it.

Maybe there's a reason for that, you stupid cock.

Yeah, because they begin to learn how desperate I am and I start begging for them to help me expand my social circle because I know they'll just get sick of me and leave eventually. I'm always trying to build back up plans but I can never build the networks faster than they're destroyed.

@The_Cowcel you remind me of a certain pathetic male protagonist from a certain shitty anime series.

And even this guy is more enjoyable to be around than you are being right now.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ePw_rI7FZq0

At about 30 seconds in there's a mention of cameras following him around on dates? This nigger has more dating success than me despite looking like that? Arranged I assume?

 

[Butterschmalz]

He may get a lot of love letters, but the only sex he can get is in the prison showers. Ironic, all the female adoration in the world, and yet he can't take advantage of it.

Yeah thats what I like to know. How happy is that guy? I mean he did a good thing. Restored justice. Izzat to the max. According to you he gets sex AND love. Great. Maybe not in the combination as one would prefer, but still. Should it be enough? He s a legend now.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

It's one bad and unchanging time in my life which at this point exceeds the rest of the time of my life and which is preventing me from experiencing any joy

No. Your fixation and clinging to thinking you know best is what is in your way.

and has caused me to lose just about every friend I've ever had while rendering me so socially crippled I can't even try to socialize while sober.

Your dedication to the perspective you are convinced is correct, and trying to make the world bend to it, is what is causing you grief. And you're so committed to this wrong framework that you are letting it destroy your friendships and ability to be in the world.

Hence why sex is at the same level as food and water on Maslow's hierarchy of needs

Incorrect.

 

[Duke Nukem]

@The_Cowcel Hey, we don't tolerate that kind of hateful racist language here. No wonder you're a 30 year old virgin.

But seriously, if your hobbies don't bring you any interest, why have them at all? And being drunk 30 hours a week is a glaring sign of a much larger problem.

You shouldn't need alcohol to talk to people without losing your mind.

Regardless of whether or not the dates are arranged and filmed, Skippy still manages to be a likeable and entertaining personality despite being over 40 and never having any sexual experiences.

He still holds out hope that he'll meet the right one someday even though he's flopped repeatedly on camera of all places.

He may be a bit unkempt and live with his mother at 40+ but he's a million times more charismatic and likeable than all of the incels IS forum members combined.

No. Your fixation and clinging to thinking you know best is what is in your way.


Your dedication to the perspective you are convinced is correct, and trying to make the world bend to it, is what is causing you grief. And you're so committed to this wrong framework that you are letting it destroy your friendships and ability to be in the world.


Incorrect.
Ver archivo adjunto 9193482

And the kicker is that, even if he did manage to lose his virginity, he's still going to be the same angry bitter bastard he's always been.

Quite a few IS forum members have managed to have sex (perhaps with hookers) and it didn't fix their problems.

 

[Anime Waifu NFT collector]

JUUUULAAAAAY!!!

 

[AMHOLIO]

And being drunk 30 hours a week is a glaring sign of a much larger problem.

That's about 4 hours and a little less than 20 minutes of drinking each day!

 

[OrangeCream]

There is probably a point at which someone is so physically ugly they will never have a partner or anyone genuinely who will love them. Now the chance that OP is that hideous, I am not sure.

 

[souschef]

Tzatziki is a quick and easy spread or dip that takes just minutes to make. It’s a good idea to plan ahead so the sauce has time to chill in the fridge so all of the flavors develop. It’s garlicky and flavored with fresh dill and just a hint of mint. Serve it as a dip with pita and veggies for an easy appetizer or spoon it over baked fish or roasted vegetables.

Ingredients​

• 1/2 English hothouse cucumber approximately 6 ounces, seeded
• 1 garlic clove minced
• 1 cup plain Greek yogurt
• 1 tablespoon chopped fresh dill
• 1/4 teaspoon fresh mint see note
• 1 tablespoon olive oil plus 1 teaspoon for drizzling
• 1/4 teaspoon of salt

Instructions​

• Grate the cucumber using a box grater or food processor. Wrap the grated cucumber in a clean dish towel and squeeze it over the sink to remove the excess moisture.
• Combine the cucumber, garlic, yogurt, dill, mint, 1 tablespoon of olive oil, and salt in a bowl. Refrigerate for at least two hours to allow the flavors to develop.

 

[One Winged Pear Farmer]

Bro just do what we all did in high school before we learned how to talk to women. Listen to some sad music, hangout with the guys, exercise a little. You’ll stop caring and get ya a bitch in no time. It really is that simple just stop fixating you fucking retard

 

[The_Cowcel]

No. Your fixation and clinging to thinking you know best is what is in your way.

Nobody has shown me any other viable alternatives, people just tell me I'm wrong without even telling me what I could do differently other than giving up.

Your dedication to the perspective you are convinced is correct, and trying to make the world bend to it, is what is causing you grief. And you're do committed to this wrong framework that you are letting it destroy your friendships and ability to be in the world.

I'm trying to escape this hell I'm stuck in but every time I try I just get dragged deeper and deeper into it, I have spent years attempting to build a resilient social circle but once again it's all fallen apart to the point where my only friend is an actual retard who annoys everyone to the point nobody wants him around either, I've been stuck with this faggot for over a half decade and I can't even get rid of him because then I'd be left with no personal connections outside of family.

Incorrect.

huh, the versions I've seen usually have sex at the bottom.

But seriously, if your hobbies don't bring you any interest, why have them at all? And being drunk 30 hours a week is a glaring sign of a much larger problem.

I agree, and that's why I have such hard time keeping up with any hobbies or activities that I start, if I'm not enjoying what I'm doing, it's getting me nowhere socially and it's eating up my time and money then the only reason I have to keep doing it is because someone told me that it's meant to somehow help despite there being no evidence or progress to show for it.

I also agree that drinking as much as I do is a sign of a larger problem and that problem all stems from my inability to get a woman. I have crippling social anxiety because of many cases of being ostracized for my attempts to get advice on how to get a life and my bitterness towards those who have experiences that I crave and the only way I've found to deal with it is through drinking. I have prescription medication that's meant to help but the dosage is way too low and my doctor doesn't want me using it as often as I would need for it to fill the role of alcohol and It would be like trying to draw blood from a stone trying to get a dose high enough to make me as sociable as I am during a night of drinking.

You shouldn't need alcohol to talk to people without losing your mind.

I agree and I only became this way because of having gone through the cycle of struggling to get a social group, getting the social group pissed at me, restarting from square one probably three or four times and that's just counting the groups that I had actually grown attached to. If I never had to struggle so hard to get a woman I'd still be with that original friend group and I wouldn't be traumatized into alcoholism.

And the kicker is that, even if he did manage to lose his virginity, he's still going to be the same angry bitter bastard he's always been.

Quite a few IS forum members have managed to have sex (perhaps with hookers) and it didn't fix their problems

Prostitutes don't count. It's the equivalent of buying a a replica superbowl ring instead of actually winning the superbowl, even if you're able to somehow fool others you aren't fooling yourself and there is no validation to be had from it.

That's about 4 hours and a little less than 20 minutes of drinking each day!

To be more specific it's 10 hours over the course of the day/night three days per week. Despite all the time dedicated and all the damage to my health I'm still struggling to socialize and make connections but at least I'm talking to people.

Bro just do what we all did in high school before we learned how to talk to women. Listen to some sad music, hangout with the guys, exercise a little. You’ll stop caring and get ya a bitch in no time. It really is that simple just stop fixating you fucking retard

I'm too out of touch to know what sad music is popular with the current generation, I have no guys to hang out with because they all cut me out of their lives because of my desperation for a woman and while I've been a bit behind lately I do regularly go to the gym.
Are the sad music and the guys necessary or optional?