Debate user Saint Agustin on why you need an AR-15? - Why you need a long ass rifle? Are you gay or you lack dick?

[Justtocheck]

Most of the literature and studies on the topic indicates that you don't really need more than five rounds, so why carry the extra mag? Just in case right, for that situation that needs more than five rounds or even the whole magazine. The same logic can and should be applied to owning and training with a rifle.

Good training is going to tell you to have a number of tools in your arsenal to meet situations appropriately. A Glock 19 isn't going to be able to shoot though barriers as well or have the the range of a 5.56mm rifle.

You can say that's a judgement issue but there was probably at lest one situation today where your Glock 19 wasn't the best tool for a problem if it where to arise. If we could give people perfect judgement then nobody would need a gun but isn't how the world works. The world can't really be prepared for 100% in a reasonable manner, but it's unreasonable to ignore a tool and instead insist in using the wrong tool for the wrong job.

I understand your argument, but here's the thing. Name the scenarios where a normal joe would need a 556 to counter an immediate threat on his life. When does your average joe need to lay rounds at 200 yards? What kind of average joe needs a rifle and plates in his truck?

I can think of plenty of scenarios, but most of them happen when you are outgunned by other rifle owners. If somebody else attacks me with an assault rifle, I have to defend myself with another one. But that's the circularity of the issue. Assault rifles are creating the very issues where they are needed to solve them.

If there's an active shooter with an AR, an AR and plates are handy, but wouldn't it just be safer than a lot less people could have such a platform? Especially that the police has proven themselves totally useless and cowardly.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

I understand your argument, but here's the thing. Name the scenarios where a normal joe would need a 556 to counter an immediate threat on his life. When does your average joe need to lay rounds at 200 yards? What kind of average joe needs a rifle and plates in his truck?

I can think of plenty of scenarios, but most of them happen when you are outgunned by other rifle owners. If somebody else attacks me with an assault rifle, I have to defend myself with another one. But that's the circularity of the issue. Assault rifles are creating the very issues where they are needed to solve them.

If there's an active shooter with an AR, an AR and plates are handy, but wouldn't it just be safer than a lot less people could have such a platform? Especially that the police has proven themselves totally useless and cowardly.

Some niggas with body armor have been taking pot shots at your windows with stolen hunting rifles from the building across the road, about 150-200 yards away. Another 30-06 bullet just crashed into a wall behind you, showering you with debris. You can hear laughter and hollering from the direction the bullet came from.

Police no longer respond to your calls since you moved to that part of town, your grandpa's bolt action is too slow to engage multiple targets, and your sad Glock doesn't have the range or accuracy to reach them. Do you reach for that AR and level 4 plates, or what?

 

[Justtocheck]

Some niggas with body armor have been taking pot shots at your windows with stolen hunting rifles from the building across the road, about 150-200 yards away. Another 30-06 bullet just crashed into a wall behind you, showering you with debris. You can hear laughter and hollering from the direction the bullet came from.

Police no longer respond to your calls since you moved to that part of town, your grandpa's bolt action is too slow to engage multiple targets, and your sad Glock doesn't have the range or accuracy to reach them. Do you reach for that AR and level 4 plates, or what?

Well, the first mistake was already to move to a part of town where people take pot shots at your and you are unreachable by police. In that case have a safe room in the basement. Basic security. Arm your glock and wait for the firing to stop as you call the cops.

 

[Fools Idol]

I understand your argument, but here's the thing. Name the scenarios where a normal joe would need a 556 to counter an immediate threat on his life. When does your average joe need to lay rounds at 200 yards? What kind of average joe needs a rifle and plates in his truck?

I can think of plenty of scenarios, but most of them happen when you are outgunned by other rifle owners. If somebody else attacks me with an assault rifle, I have to defend myself with another one. But that's the circularity of the issue. Assault rifles are creating the very issues where they are needed to solve them.

If there's an active shooter with an AR, an AR and plates are handy, but wouldn't it just be safer than a lot less people could have such a platform? Especially that the police has proven themselves totally useless and cowardly.

Alejo Garza Tamez needed an AR.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong but the problem with your argument is that gun control in America is largely futile at this point, there are too many guns in the hands of too many people to effectively control.

At the end of the day AR-15's and assault rifles like exist, so do crazy people and criminals and in a country where pretty much anyone could own one you would be a fool not to. We get back to my point, why would you gimp yourself when it's your life on the line?

 

[Justtocheck]

Alejo Garza Tamez needed an AR.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong but the problem with your argument is that gun control in America is largely futile at this point, there are too many guns in the hands of too many people to effectively control.

At the end of the day AR-15's and assault rifles like exist, so do crazy people and criminals and in a country where pretty much anyone could own one you would be a fool not to. We get back to my point, why would you gimp yourself when it's your life on the line?

Alejo was Mexican and he got killed and in exchange he dropped some Zeta Goons and nothing changed. No charges were leveled against the Zetas and they kept on business as usual, making billions.

Well, I see a fork in the road. Either stop pumping assault rifles and control the damage from being outgunned (by working with the police and minding one's security), or keep pumping them and just accept that massacres at public places are now part and parcel of the American way of life.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Well, the first mistake was already to move to a part of town where people take pot shots at your and you are unreachable by police. In that case have a safe room in the basement. Basic security. Arm your glock and wait for the firing to stop as you call the cops.

Crypto market went south, could've happened to anyone.

As you're thinking all that, another gunshot rings out, turning the family pet into a red smear on the floor and walls.

Sure would be nice if you could do something about it.

You finally managed to get through to the police, but they just laugh at you and say they'll be there in 48 hours.

 

[Justtocheck]

Crypto market went south, could've happened to anyone.

As you're thinking all that, another gunshot rings out, turning the family pet into a red smear on the floor and walls.

Sure would be nice if you could do something about it.

You finally managed to get through to the police, but they just laugh at you and say they'll be there in 48 hours.

My cat Tom is a fucking asshole who ruined my favourite leather couch. Good fucking riddance.

 

[glib]

I need more than an AR-15.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

My cat Tom is a fucking asshole who ruined my favourite leather couch. Good fucking riddance.

Then they break into your panic room and quite literally rape the shit out of you.

The scenarios why one would need an AR-15 are endless. Also because fuck you, it's none of your business, that's why.

 

[Ishtar]

The entire basis for gun control in the western world ultimately comes down to the assumption that the citizenry are and should hapless sheep-that possess no agency beyond voting in elections. The state will "graciously" take over matters of defense and security-and if some people die in the process because they were disarmed-then too bad.

Trudeau and Macron have explicitly said this-citizens should just lay down and die when attacked. As self defense by its very nature takes the control of one's own fate out of the state's hands.

Throughout most of human history-owning arms was the mark of actual independence, slaves didn't own arms, freemen did. This did mean private feuds, piracy, etc... occurred-but this was before the modern state removed such prerogatives.

My belief in gun ownership is ultimately derived from the belief that control over life and death is what really defines sovereignty and self agency. You either hold sovereign power over your life and indeed others' lives, or you don't. If you don't, you may be allowed to drive and you may be allowed to vote, but you are ultimately just cattle.

 

[Justtocheck]

Then they break into your panic room and quite literally rape the shit out of you.

The scenarios why one would need an AR-15 are endless. Also because fuck you, it's none of your business, that's why.

It must be awful being this stupid. Also don't speak in Russian to me again you fucking 5th column.

I need more than an AR-15.

What you really need is love

 

[Fools Idol]

Alejo was Mexican and he got killed and in exchange he dropped some Zeta Goons and nothing changed. No charges were leveled against the Zetas and they kept on business as usual, making billions.

Well, I see a fork in the road. Either stop pumping assault rifles and control the damage from being outgunned (by working with the police and minding one's security), or keep pumping them and just accept that massacres at public places are now part and parcel of the American way of life.

What's your point? Alejo Garza Tamez wasn't out to defeat the cartel, he just didn't want to be a victim. Shooting a crazy guy for trying to kill you because thinks you're the reincarnation of Hitter doesn't help the mental health care crisis in America, but you're not carrying a gun for that reason. You're carrying because you don't want to be a victim of a crazy guy or a criminal.

You're missing the point on the futile nature of gun control. It's that there are too many guns to control. Americans would still be the most armed people on Earth even if you stopped making guns and you somehow reduced the guns in circulation by half, which is imposable I might add.

The idea that a safe room in the basement is going to help a person when people break into a two story house at 1 in the morning is very silly. Oh, and this is in Florida so they don't have a basement. Maybe those things don't apply to you be they do for millions. When we talk about guns we are talking about ones own personal security. I agree that people should invest more in being prepared in general but rifles like pistols are a part of that conversation.

On you last point, lets say you get your wish and assault rifles and banned and we somehow magically remove the 10's of millions in circulation, how does that stop massacres? Most mass shooting could have been carried out with that Glock of yours.

 

[glib]

It must be awful being this stupid. Also don't speak in Russian to me again you fucking 5th column.


What you really need is love

What i really need is a high trust society, justice done unto traitors and criminals, and my people together in harmony.
Because I have love, and this love should be protected.

 

[Stan]

To shoot at people. In a life or death situation why would you deliberately gimp yourself?

In life or death situations people tend to panic and fire randomly into the crowd is why. When one person starts firing, everyone else with arms starts shooting without knowing why or what they’re even supposed to be aiming for. It’s called contagious shooting,

Don’t kid yourselves, nerds. You’re not Rambo and you’re not The Punisher. You’re not Seal Team 6. If you tried to be the proverbial “good guy with a gun” in a life or death situation, you’ll be remembered as “that asshole who shot 5 people on his own and caused a stampede.”

 

[Fools Idol]

In life or death situations people tend to panic and fire randomly into the crowd is why. When one person starts firing, everyone else with arms starts shooting without knowing why or what they’re even supposed to be aiming for. It’s called contagious shooting,

Don’t kid yourselves, nerds. You’re not Rambo and you’re not The Punisher. You’re not Seal Team 6. If you tried to be the proverbial “good guy with a gun” in a life or death situation, you’ll be remembered as “that asshole who shot 5 people on his own and caused a stampede.”

Crowd? Why would there be a crowd of people in my house at 1 in the morning? Or in the woods? Or in my car? I'm not trying to be a hero, I don't own a gun so that I can run in the direction of gunfire, I just don't want to be killed or maimed by somebody.

You seem to have a very narrow understanding of what a self defence situation is and why people feel they might need to protect themselves.

 

[Stan]

In 1:1 self defense situations youre either going to be too slow on the draw or shoot your own dick because you’re carrying a loaded gun in your waistband 24/7. There’s a reason people who need guns get training.

Same with home defense. If you store the gun in a safe you won’t have time to ready it. If you store a loaded gun in your nightstand you’re asking for bad things to happen. You’ll end up mistakenly shooting your own family in the dark, thinking they are the assailant.

Oscar pistorius managed to kill his own gf “defending” himself this way. He shot her through the bathroom door because he thought he was being burglarized.

 

[Wormy]

Well, the first mistake was already to move to a part of town where people take pot shots at your and you are unreachable by police. In that case have a safe room in the basement. Basic security. Arm your glock and wait for the firing to stop as you call the cops.

Ah yes, the Cops, the guys who have zero obligation to protect you, very reliable.

Go look up Warren vs DC, lunchmeat. I'm keeping my firearms.

Glad you're rich enough to afford an armored safe room, though. I don't have that luxury.

You’re not Rambo and you’re not The Punisher.

Good thing you don't have to be.

Same with home defense. If you store the gun in a safe you won’t have time to ready it.

It's why my shotgun ain't in a safe. I have no children, and my wife and I sleep in the same bed, so if someone's breaking in the trailer unnannounced, they don't belong there...

 

[Stan]

It's why my shotgun ain't in a safe. I have no children, and my wife and I sleep in the same bed, so if someone's breaking in the trailer unnannounced, they don't belong there...

It's easy to talk tough on Kiwi Farms, but keeping a loaded shotgun in the corner seems impractical. Misfires can happen, firearm accidents can happen. It could fall over and blast a giant hole in the wall. If your theoretical home invader gets the drop on you, he grab it and shoot you in your own bed. And if you don't secure it, then the shotgun is easy to steal when you aren't at home. Buy better window locks, better deadbolts, and a floodlight. Get a dog; they'll alert you if someone's skulking around in the yard at night by barking their heads off. As Benjamin Franklin said "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

That said I agree that different places need different rules about guns, and a shotgun is way safer than an AR-15. A rural person may need a gun like yours to dispatch rattlesnakes in the playground, rabid raccoons, coyotes eating their chickens. There are some legitimate and utilitarian uses for guns around the farm and in the field, but an AR-15 doesn't meet those needs, it's just a killing machine. The only real use case it has is a battlefield.

 

[Fools Idol]

In 1:1 self defense situations youre either going to be too slow on the draw or shoot your own dick because you’re carrying a loaded gun in your waistband 24/7. There’s a reason people who need guns get training.

Same with home defense. If you store the gun in a safe you won’t have time to ready it. If you store a loaded gun in your nightstand you’re asking for bad things to happen. You’ll end up mistakenly shooting your own family in the dark, thinking they are the assailant.

Oscar pistorius managed to kill his own gf “defending” himself this way. He shot her through the bathroom door because he thought he was being burglarized.

If you carry a gun then you most likely have some type of holster. There's a whole community of gun owners who spend more time talking (and arguing) about holsters than they do about guns. I'd say it pretty rare for a gun owner who carries to not have a holster. The number of people who have survived self defence situations invalidate the idea that you're going to be to slow.

People who are concerned about a home defence situation don't keep their home defence gun of choice in a safe. They keep it somewhere easily accessible to them. You can say that "you're asking for bad things to happen" but plenty of people have a gun on their nightstand and nothing bad happens. Sure their have been unfortunate accidents but their have also been people killed by home invaders.

You are 100% correct that people who carry guns need to get training, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the idea of gun control. You need to give a good reason why a law abiding citizen doesn't need to carry or don't need AR-15's, yet all you've done is advocate for training and preparedness. Which is something most gun people completely agree with.

You seem pretty ignorant about guns and gun culture. You should probably educate yourself of the subject before coming to conclusions.

 

[Justtocheck]

I'm sure if Shinzo had been packing a loaded MP5k under his coat, he would have survived the deadly encounter where he got shot in the back.