Debate rando[Numbers] about AI (or something) - Certified Sperg Contaiment Thread

[rando[Numbers]]

LLM mania has taken over tech. And it’s magnified the worst parts of working in the industry. Software engineers already have an embarrassing turnover rate. "Engineers" aren’t engineers, they don’t even qualify as skilled labor. The average construction worker or truck driver is better qualified for their job than the average developer.

LLM Mania is primarily driven by a dopamine addiction: Watching LLM’s do shit is like watching loading bars on an idle mobile game. It’s mindless tech gooning. Anyone who calls "prompting" a skill is retarded. The startups that are always frantic about moving as fast as possible and eventually losing to a bigger, more structured companies with similar team sizes and budget, are still going to be utter failures.

"Vibe Coding" permits low-quality garbage software to exist: Most software companies have been get-rich quick schemes for decades. But they’ve also always been a little ashamed of the fact that they don’t test or don’t plan their architecture. When their systems start to crash, they hire contractors with some level of shame. With AI, the thought seems to be that generating 10,000 lines of bullshit code a day solves this problem. But it only makes it worse. The garbage being spit out nowadays is putting PII at risk, I wouldn’t be surprised if people’s lives already depend on some non-deterministic guessing.

Software "culture" is sensitivity and cancel culture: Half of people at tech companies are the biggest pussies I’ve ever met in my life. People are afraid to talk to each other. The amount of anxiety-driven defensive reflex conversations I’ve had to listen to. If any sentence even suggests that someone made a mistake, you’re done. The retarded system of wrapping software construction in agile practices misses the entire point of both agile and software *engineering. But when nobody there is qualified to be there, how would they know? When learning is considered offensive, well... fuck it. I guess it’s idiocracy now. As another fun note, I have seen three times someone get offended and run to a manager about static analysis rules straight from SonarQube and ESLint. "no-useless-var" WE DON’T USE LANGUAGE LIKE THAT HERE!

The Hype around AI is Misguided: Primarily driven by marketing from bullshit artists like Sam Altman. Google has done some cool things with research at DeepMind and AlphaFold. Generating React dashboards has existed for as long as React has existed. And existed in some form for decades with other languages.

Most Software "Engineers" clearly don’t want the job: Anyone who wants AI to do their job for them doesn’t want to do the job. This has generally been a problem before LLM’s. Because there is literally no barrier to entry, people treat it as an easy way to get a lazy 6-figures and never bother to learn how to do the work. Most of the work in software is cleaning up after these assholes. They never have to take responsibility for their work because they can quit for a new job every 1-2 years. Leaving a pile of shit behind every time.

Most people pursuing software engineering would be better in sales: Go bust your balls memorizing the perfect script to get old people to buy scam insurance. If all you do is leetcode interviews every two years, this is literally what you would rather be doing. Fuck off and go do it.

People said AI would allow them to expand their responsibility… LOL: If they weren’t concerned with the full body of software engineering before, they won’t be now. Vibe coders have moved from writing 1,000 lines of code a day to 10,000 lines of code a day... that is not an expansion of responsibility. That is literally pretending to do work.

I think SWE’s should require legal certification: Professional drivers require CDL’s, a clean driving record, and medical cards. Construction workers go through OSHA training and require certification on certain equipment. Plumbers and electricians have apprenticeship programs. Welders have formal schooling and certification. Nurses, accounting, shit even traditional IT did CompTIA and Cisco certification for dealing with network hardware.

I would suggest IEEE due to vendor neutrality and because they’ve been beating this dead horse since the 1990's. And they actually test knowledge that every SWE needs. Not some BS AWS cert that just means you know how to sell your boss on uber expensive and impractical Lambda+Dynamo setups.

Any SWE without basic certification is worth about $39,000 avg in the US. Really tired of idiots calling their ability to type some shit into a text box and watching some text scroll a "skill." If you gave a 13-year-old with a missing chromosome or two a script with prompts and a few blank underline spaces to fill in with a "feature," they’d do better work than these people.

 

[MrTroll]

Fuck Al? Doesn't this man have enough problems already?

 

[We Are The Witches]

Anyone who calls "prompting" a skill is retarded.

It's like people taking pride in being able to do basic multiplications, or writing basic english.

 

[rando[Numbers]]

It's like people taking pride in being able to do basic multiplications, or writing basic english.

My PornHub searches are REAL specific. You won't get the good stuff unless you know what you're doing.

 

[Gog & Magog]

haha no

 

[satorrotas]

The average computerman's use case for AI is just as a replacement for the now fully-enshittified search engines like Google. You're better off asking for summaries and forcing linked sources. For small things, this is very convenient.
"Summarize the political career of Bill Clinton" and reading what's spat back out, vice reading a shitty editorial or a Wikipedia page.

If you're even remotely immunized against self-sampling and bad returns this is mostly threat-free.

 

[rando[Numbers]]

The average computerman's use case for AI is just as a replacement for the now fully-enshittified search engines like Google. You're better off asking for summaries and forcing linked sources. For small things, this is very convenient.
"Summarize the political career of Bill Clinton" and reading what's spat back out, vice reading a shitty editorial or a Wikipedia page.

If you're even remotely immunized against self-sampling and bad returns this is mostly threat-free.

I think the fact that there are no real use cases outside of this scares the shit out of the startups that poured billions into thinking LLM’s would somehow lead to AGI. They plateaued around GPT 2-3. But you can get software developers to spend literal thousands on API tokens generating code that will immediately break. Then they spend more $ telling it to fix their code.

Vibe coding gave permission to all the devs who never learned to do the job. When Zuck went on Joe Rogan and said it would replace mid-level engineers, they all rushed to prove it true. Then they’ll spout shit like, "If you’re not embracing vibe coding, you’re falling behind." There's nothing but fear in those words. They wish it were the case because in their minds, it means they don’t have to learn the job as a skilled discipline.

But if that were remotely possible... no one would hire them to begin with. Because it means the average online business doesn’t have to go to the agency that hired the dev. They can go straight to Lovable. Which is leaking data and creating bugged apps left and right. No better than the devs that think prompting is a job now.

LLM’s are a very loose text summarization and prediction. This had made it useful in some research. But not only does the average person not give a shit about "Amazon Rufus" but the average tech company has no real use for it as a tool. But BILLIONS $ have been spent marketing it as a great revolution.

 

[my penis is on fire]

nigger fart rape

 

[Fascist Frederick]

I don't know, seeing how AI has made "creatives" completely lose their shit makes it all worth it. The same people that used to quote South Park's "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS" when people cried about automation replacing workers are now the ones crying, and when you tell them "DEY TOOK ER JERBS" or "lol learn to code" they screech that it's completely different. Learn to panhandle, faggots.

 

[rando[Numbers]]

I don't know, seeing how AI has made "creatives" completely lose their shit is worth it. The same people that used to quote South Park's "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS" when people cried about automation replacing workers are now the ones crying, and when you tell them "DEY TOOK ER JERBS" or "lol learn to code" they screech that it's completely different. Learn to panhandle, faggots.

I don't what the fuck you're talking about, but I'm glad your keyboard is working.

 

[Fascist Frederick]

I don't what the fuck you're talking about, but I'm glad your keyboard is working.

You know, it’s genuinely amusing — in a kind of historically illiterate, “bless your heart” way — to watch modern creatives wring their hands about AI as if they’ve stumbled onto a completely new societal tragedy. It’s like watching someone discover the concept of gravity and start a protest against falling.

We’ve been here before. Over and over. The printing press, the mechanical loom, the camera, recorded music, digital photography, Photoshop — every single time, a certain segment of the “creative class” declared civilization was ending. Not because the art stopped existing, but because the method of making it changed, and suddenly the gatekeeping tools they relied on weren’t quite as effective. Heaven forbid more people have access to create things.

Do you think painters in the 19th century didn’t whine about photography “cheapening” their work? Or that musicians didn’t sneer when recording technology let the unwashed masses listen without paying for a live performance? These arguments are so recycled they might as well come with a bottle deposit.

And now here we are with AI — the 2020s’ version of the scary mechanical loom. The same tired script is playing out: “But this isn’t REAL art! This will put REAL artists out of work!” Yeah, and the automobile was going to put REAL blacksmiths out of work too. Which it did — and the world moved on, and somehow culture didn’t implode. We adapted. We always adapt.

It’s not that I don’t understand the discomfort — change is unsettling. But pretending that AI represents some uniquely evil existential threat to creativity is like a stagecoach driver insisting that trains are unethical because they don’t use horses. It’s nostalgia disguised as moral outrage. The tools evolve. The skillset shifts. The audience changes. That’s not the death of art — that’s the history of art.

So when I see the modern crop of “art is dying” doomsayers, all I can think is: congratulations, you’re the 21st-century version of the guy in 1811 smashing weaving machines because he thinks fabric made without his personal touch isn’t legitimate. The technology won’t stop because you disapprove. You’ll either adapt and learn to use it, or you’ll be a quaint anecdote in the next century’s history book about people who thought progress was optional.

 

[DumbDude43]

I think SWE’s should require legal certification: Professional drivers require CDL’s, a clean driving record, and medical cards. Construction workers go through OSHA training and require certification on certain equipment. Plumbers and electricians have apprenticeship programs. Welders have formal schooling and certification. Nurses, accounting, shit even traditional IT did CompTIA and Cisco certification for dealing with network hardware.

this is something that you really do NOT want to be a reality.
you know first hand what type of people have control and influence in the industry. do you really want to hand them more power to enforce their ideas as legally binding standards and certification?
cause lets be real, an official certification for SWE would most likely end up pushing shit like agile/scrum culture even more than it already is, and entrench that shit in the industry forever.

also, minor pet peeve of mine: i don't like the term 'software engineer' period. we're not engineers, we don't do any actual engineering,
people using that term always irks me, gives me stolen valor vibes. better to just refer to the profession as software development and to the people in it as software developers.

 

[YautjaWeeb]

People are legit using it for therapy.

They are legit using it for companionship.

There are realish cults forming around AI and the slot machine effect on people seems very real.

I hate the corporate side of it. Its like the 90s again and every dick sucker in a suit shitting all over the entire concept of the internet and home computing until it could spit shekels out then they can't shut up about it. Except way, way worse this go around the way AI spending has dwarfed consumer spending and the absurd promise of eliminating a majority of humans from employment on the road to 'unlimited gainz''.

Something low cost horrible or ultra cool will come from it somehow. Either way I'm an eager voyeur and faithful.

 

[Professor G. Raff]

It's true, AI prompting is NOT a skill and using AI does NOT make you an artist. AI will NOT ever replace real art.

That said, the absolute retarded zeal with which the anti-AI crowd never stops whining has turned me against them as people - as I am fond of saying, they have basically become AIs themselves with the lack of ability to create and only to regurgitate. AI will not do what the investors think it will for a very long time, but AI art being quick and easy has a use case. I've gone on a longer speil of my thoughts in the AI thread (which is probably where THIS post should have been) but needless to say I have gone from being somewhat against AI art as someone always in close contact with artists and a hobbyist myself to having absolutely no sympathy for the faggots who won't shut up about it.

So, get fucked I guess. Wanting more legal bullshit is just another reason to dislike anti-AI types.

 

[rando[Numbers]]

this is something that you really do NOT want to be a reality.
you know first hand what type of people have control and influence in the industry. do you really want to hand them more power to enforce their ideas as legally binding standards and certification?
cause lets be real, an official certification for SWE would most likely end up pushing shit like agile/scrum culture even more than it already is, and entrench that shit in the industry forever.

also, minor pet peeve of mine: i don't like the term 'software engineer' period. we're not engineers, we don't do any actual engineering,
people using that term always irks me, gives me stolen valor vibes. better to just refer to the profession as software development and to the people in it as software developers.

I don't understand this argument, because it's not based on anything. It's more an emotional reaction. Should truck drivers not require a CDL, to prove they're physically capable of the endurance required, to not have to log their hours and drive 16-24 hours straight? Because without regulation, that's exactly what happens.

I suspect you don't like agile because you've never worked in a professional environment? Just these bullshit small companies that have stand-ups and throw around 3 word tickets and poorly written Google docs?

If that's the only experience I had, I wouldn't understand the purpose of all that agile talk. But working for the EPA and Relx was the only time I saw real team competence. The kind of competence I saw in a good Army unit that had been sleeping side by side for months.

I'm not pitching "agile" or "lean" or whatever word you're afraid of. I'm pitching basic industry standards. IEEE SWEBOK guide covers I think 13 knowledge areas in software requirements, testing, construction, architecture, design, and others. Most developers only know construction.

And this exactly why no one outside of tech is happy with the tech they have to use. Broken, shitty garbage. Within the industry we accept and expect broken shitty garbage, as long as you're shipping LOC as fast as possible like a coke addicted retard.

Google, who is winning the AI wars thanks to DeepMind, Genie, and other projects, was counted out in the beginning then slapped the fuck out of the incompetence of the startups after a few years. You know why? Because they have competent teams. That doesn't mean they're perfect, it means project managers, QA, and developers (the "three amigos") as they call it, communicate, work together on goals, practice TDD and take quality seriously.

Elsewhere teams with the same number of people and budget are dealing with 3 word tickets, random poorly written Google docs, QA doing drag and drop E2E tests after work is done... This isn't a smart strategy, or just the result of being small. This is the result of not knowing how to do the job.

You're right, we're not engineers, and we're definitely not creatives. I don't know what that idiot before you is taking about. But we should be, because the job implies a responsibility.

Or you can just be the moron behind the Tea App and leak 60GB of data, or when businesses place trust in your software and lose hundreds of thousands in value when everything comes to a halt you can tell them, "I don't know bro, I'm not an engineer, and certification is gay."

 

[rando[Numbers]]

People are legit using it for therapy.

They are legit using it for companionship.

There are realish cults forming around AI and the slot machine effect on people seems very real.

I hate the corporate side of it. Its like the 90s again and every dick sucker in a suit shitting all over the entire concept of the internet and home computing until it could spit shekels out then they can't shut up about it. Except way, way worse this go around the way AI spending has dwarfed consumer spending and the absurd promise of eliminating a majority of humans from employment on the road to 'unlimited gainz''.

Something low cost horrible or ultra cool will come from it somehow. Either way I'm an eager voyeur and faithful.

No doubt it's being used. I use Gemini more than Google search. Or expect an AI summary at the top of search.

Does this new search capability mean robots will be pegging you tomorrow? That makes no sense.

A new tech is not automatically equivalent to revolution. People need to learn the tell the difference between marketing and real world results.

Among researchers it's well accepted that LLMs peaked awhile ago.

But because of the marketing of startups, people think text generators will replace them. And what's weird, this is my point, they are taking that and trying to make it a self fulfilling prophecy.

Someone invented a new dildo and half the population bent over and said, "Ok rape me."

 

[Otis Boi]

I love Machine Learning especially since my job requires lots of data analysis and it basically trivialize some of the repetitive task I do.

As for the LLM shit and Gen Ai its all faggoty bullshit and I have never found a good use for it besides as a idea sounding board and it was barely possible for that. Outside of goofing around I dont see it long term use if you have a decent brain.

 

[Neodanthril]

I wouldn’t be surprised if people’s lives already depend on some non-deterministic guessing.

United healthcare was using "ai" to deny 90% of the insurance claims being made by their customers, which certainly led to many uneccessary deaths. The CEO was murdered btw

 

[rando[Numbers]]

United healthcare was using "ai" to deny 90% of the insurance claims being made by their customers, which certainly led to many uneccessary deaths. The CEO was murdered btw

Watch it sneak it's way into law and healthcare.

Actually I think I saw a story of a judge chastising a lawyer because his case was full of AI hallucinations.

That kind of fucktard should lose his license. At a minimum have to re-earn it after a suspension period.

Using truck drivers again, 3 tickets in 3 years and they can't drive for a year. That includes personal vehicles and simple speeding tickets. The trucking companies pay legal fines, suffer audits, and can lose the business altogether.

Software Engineers... or as many like to say, "I'm not an engineer, I'm just a developer" have no standards, no discipline, and their work can't be trusted. GDPR isn't enough.

Market is saturated with morons looking for easy pay and don't want the job. They think having no skills can get them 6 digits.

All I'm saying, if you work for a company and it leaks PII, they pay a GDPR fine, but if it's clear an obvious that was the result of individual incompetence... they should lose their license.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

It's true, AI prompting is NOT a skill and using AI does NOT make you an artist. AI will NOT ever replace real art.

AI can make good enough art sometimes -- when it doesn't make eldritch abominations -- despite delusions that AI art is "never real art" and is "always soulless" and is "art theft". That said, writing prompts and getting AI art does not make one an artist. And other than art, the Current Year AI trend is annoying so far to me. From the "answers" on search engines, to that unnatural dialog when trying to imitate human speech, to robocall scam BS, to lobotomized "ChatGPT" that gives SJW-approved "answers" and results.

Like I said, AI should sound like 20th century scifi robots.