Critical Role - Tabletop RPGs is serious business, man.

[FreedomMussel]

Despite what people will tell you, Matt Mercer's OC Donut Steel setting is very kitchen sink and about as bland as it gets. This show also exists in a weird nebulous zone where it's full of DnD stuff but I assume they didn't have the copyright for some stuff so they'll probably never mention anything but the most generic races. Elves, dwarfs, gnomes, the things with horns are probably tieflings. Mercer is a koolaid drinker so having all the disparate races treated 'equally' is why there's no clear differentiation between them, and why they're all crammed together in the same city with no unique culture separating the races or coming into play. So, yeah, everybody is just a blue or pointy-eared human.

Really? Oh no. One of the best parts of fantasy worldbuilding, like in real life, is the diverse cultures. One of the reasons why Planescape: Torment is considered classic literature by gamers is because it is dripping with diverse cultures, most of which are only ever alluded to. Each of the party members comes from a distinct culture that informs their worldview. Annah grew up as a member of a criminal syndicate, Dak’kon is a warrior monk, Nordom is from an inhumanly orderly hierarchical society, Fall-From-Grace was sold to devils as a child and now runs a “brothel” dedicated to philosophical discussions, Vhailor comes from an order of merciless judges, etc. Even within a single culture you’ll have numerous sub-cultures.

What’s the point of fantasy if you remove all that?

 

[Trenchgunner]

I mostly play and run OSR systems (currently Hyperborea) but I don't worship old school play to the point where im blinded to how poorly designed mechanics like save or die, descending AC, or level drain actually are. Modern sensibilities like advantage/disadvantage or uniform attribute mods are good things imo, but I also think mechanics like perception and persuasion really changed how the players engage in exploration and role play in a negative way.

My main issue above all is over the top high magic that's baked into the 5E system. It simulates fiction thats so far removed from classic fantasy like Conan or Elric or Lord of the rings that it's not worth it for me to try salvaging the system. The tendency of sessions becoming theatre club where the party is rail roaded through the DMs novella is also something that's become prominent in the modern gaming culture, along with some players apparently needing therapy in the event of a character death.

I wouldn't mind being a player in a 5E game so long as I knew the DM was good, but i wouldnt run it. I have in the past and it starts turning into a super hero game around level 5 or so, and the system actively works against the type of fiction that interests me.

I've been running a low-mid fantasy 5E game for about three years now and I do think it's do-able. Encounter design is critcally important to dealing with some of the more fucked-up classes like Warlocks. Limiting multi-classing helps a lot with reducing munchkinism.

 

[Trenchgunner]

Despite what people will tell you, Matt Mercer's OC Donut Steel setting is very kitchen sink and about as bland as it gets. This show also exists in a weird nebulous zone where it's full of DnD stuff but I assume they didn't have the copyright for some stuff so they'll probably never mention anything but the most generic races. Elves, dwarfs, gnomes, the things with horns are probably tieflings. Mercer is a koolaid drinker so having all the disparate races treated 'equally' is why there's no clear differentiation between them, and why they're all crammed together in the same city with no unique culture separating the races or coming into play. So, yeah, everybody is just a blue or pointy-eared human.

This, IMHO, is exactly what's gonna kill 5E faster than anything else.

 

[Mega Black]

Really? Oh no. One of the best parts of fantasy worldbuilding, like in real life, is the diverse cultures.

Yes, which is tied deeply into fantastical racism. DnD (And by extension Matt Mercer/Critical Role) are desperately sanding off that unpleasant aspect of their franchise for not being 'woke' enough. Everything gets blended into a boring kitchen soup of sameness where the only thing that differentiates you from the tiefling devil spawn at your side is the color of your skin and whether or not you like getting penises shoved up your asshole. The 'diverse' cultures exist but only in the broadest sense of looking a bit stylistically different from each other, and no culture can ever be 'better' than another.

This, IMHO, is exactly what's gonna kill 5E faster than anything else.

Doing away with racial traits will definitely be a sign of what's worse to come. I don't know if it will necessarily kill 5e but it will be the mark of a slide down a very unpleasant slippery slope of utter wokeness that will push the hardcore tabletop community either back to previous editions or new games altogether. Critical Role played a key part in bringing in a horde of danger hairs to the community and that's something I'll never forgive Matt for.

 

[FreedomMussel]

The 'diverse' cultures exist but only in the broadest sense of looking a bit stylistically different from each other, and no culture can ever be 'better' than another.

Do these people even know what multiculturalism is? The United States is a melting pot of many different cultures, many of which are unique to the United States, united by their shared vision of The American Dream™. None of them are better or worse than the others and all have a right to exist.

Why should fantasy be any different?

 

[TinCan Wizard]

Americans have no concept of culture other than globohomo brands.

 

[Trenchgunner]

Doing away with racial traits will definitely be a sign of what's worse to come. I don't know if it will necessarily kill 5e but it will be the mark of a slide down a very unpleasant slippery slope of utter wokeness that will push the hardcore tabletop community either back to previous editions or new games altogether. Critical Role played a key part in bringing in a horde of danger hairs to the community and that's something I'll never forgive Matt for.

I’m genuinely curious to see what’s going to happen to the hobby as companies like WotC slide into insanity trying to please the Theatre Kid crowd.

I get the feeling Crit Role will eventually run its course if/when the original cast gets sick of pandering to their insane fanbase, and then hopefully the bandwagoners will move on.

Dunno how much of D&D will be left by then, though.

 

[ZMOT]

I’m genuinely curious to see what’s going to happen to the hobby as companies like WotC slide into insanity trying to please the Theatre Kid crowd.

I get the feeling Crit Role will eventually run its course if/when the original cast gets sick of pandering to their insane fanbase, and then hopefully the bandwagoners will move on.

Dunno how much of D&D will be left by then, though.

wouldn't worry too much, the hobby is more than dnd. I'd go as far and say most people who are in it for the hobby play something else or an older version.

once the fad is over there will still be the original core demographic playing because they never gave a fuck about CR or wotc in the first place.

 

[Trenchgunner]

wouldn't worry too much, the hobby is more than dnd. I'd go as far and say most people who are in it for the hobby play something else or an older version.

once the fad is over there will still be the original core demographic playing because they never gave a fuck about CR or wotc in the first place.

I hope you're right. I'm old enough to remember the Satanic Panic idiocy and this feels eerily similar, but much, much worse.

 

[Steinercard]

Really? Oh no. One of the best parts of fantasy worldbuilding, like in real life, is the diverse cultures. One of the reasons why Planescape: Torment is considered classic literature by gamers is because it is dripping with diverse cultures, most of which are only ever alluded to. Each of the party members comes from a distinct culture that informs their worldview. Annah grew up as a member of a criminal syndicate, Dak’kon is a warrior monk, Nordom is from an inhumanly orderly hierarchical society, Fall-From-Grace was sold to devils as a child and now runs a “brothel” dedicated to philosophical discussions, Vhailor comes from an order of merciless judges, etc. Even within a single culture you’ll have numerous sub-cultures.

What’s the point of fantasy if you remove all that?

One of the most interesting parts of fantasy is how all these cultures interact with one another. How they are seperated into actual cultures. They should never just get along and become one "diverse" mass of people who think the exact same. The Dwarven lust for gold clashes with the worldly wisdom of the Elves. Tieflings are literal demonspawn and should NEVER be trusted on principle. And human cultures alone have many separations that can not be reconciled. Every culture has biases informed by their culture and history towards other races. That is way more interesting than "here's some elves and dwarves and they do things I guess like my hipster friends, idk."

Just saying "they all live together in fantasy land with no tension whatsoever because TRANS RIGHTS!" is the laziest shit ever.

 

[Trenchgunner]

One of the most interesting parts of fantasy is how all these cultures interact with one another. How they are seperated into actual cultures. They should never just get along and become one "diverse" mass of people who think the exact same. The Dwarven lust for gold clashes with the worldly wisdom of the Elves. Tieflings are literal demonspawn and should NEVER be trusted on principle. And human cultures alone have many separations that can not be reconciled. Every culture has biases informed by their culture and history towards other races. That is way more interesting than "here's some elves and dwarves and they do things I guess like my hipster friends, idk."

Just saying "they all live together in fantasy land with no tension whatsoever because TRANS RIGHTS!" is the laziest shit ever.

I gave up on CR after Campaign 1 ended and they went fully woke, but I'm curious how much of their fanbase is sticking around for the descent into woke, lukewarm mush? The danger hairs are there for the slash porn, obviously, but the actual gamers have got to be getting bored AF.

WotC is going to have a hard time selling splat books if they're busily trying to appease the CR fangirl nutjobs by erasing any distinctions between class and race in the name of diversity. Let alone campaign books where every culture is an oh-so-inclusive mishmash of everything and nothing where no white cultures exist at all, and every non-white culture has to be SUPER AWESOME, YOU GUYS.

 

[Mega Black]

I gave up on CR after Campaign 1 ended and they went fully woke, but I'm curious how much of their fanbase is sticking around for the descent into woke, lukewarm mush? The danger hairs are there for the slash porn, obviously, but the actual gamers have got to be getting bored AF.

WotC is going to have a hard time selling splat books if they're busily trying to appease the CR fangirl nutjobs by erasing any distinctions between class and race in the name of diversity. Let alone campaign books where every culture is an oh-so-inclusive mishmash of everything and nothing where no white cultures exist at all, and every non-white culture has to be SUPER AWESOME, YOU GUYS.

Pretty much anybody who actually plays DnD has dropped them, they get a lot of people 'into' the hobby, apparently, but it's mostly just their own little fanbase of sycophantic emotional parasites. Campaign 2 was a complete mess of abandoned plotpoints and shitty playing by the end, it even felt like the table was over it. When they did that 8 session campaign with Mica Burton on for the sole purpose of appealing to the woke audience their viewership dropped down to like a 5K average by the end, way less than their usual.

I think it's safe to say that anyone who was interested in watching a game take place have hopped ship.

 

[FreedomMussel]

I gave up on CR after Campaign 1 ended and they went fully woke, but I'm curious how much of their fanbase is sticking around for the descent into woke, lukewarm mush? The danger hairs are there for the slash porn, obviously, but the actual gamers have got to be getting bored AF.

WotC is going to have a hard time selling splat books if they're busily trying to appease the CR fangirl nutjobs by erasing any distinctions between class and race in the name of diversity. Let alone campaign books where every culture is an oh-so-inclusive mishmash of everything and nothing where no white cultures exist at all, and every non-white culture has to be SUPER AWESOME, YOU GUYS.

Actually, it’s highly unlikely they’ll depict cultures based on non-European cultures as multiracial (in all senses) because that would be racist. Yes it sounds stupid, but that’s woke logic for you.

I don’t like anime anymore, but what I find an interesting contrast is that the European-inspired cultures seen in D&D-descended fantasy anime are typically racially homogeneous and race wars are a recurring theme. Typically along the lines of “those evil racist humans are enslaving those poor catgirls, elves, or other cutesy characters.”

 

[PaladinBoo]

Pretty much anybody who actually plays DnD has dropped them, they get a lot of people 'into' the hobby, apparently, but it's mostly just their own little fanbase of sycophantic emotional parasites. Campaign 2 was a complete mess of abandoned plotpoints and shitty playing by the end, it even felt like the table was over it. When they did that 8 session campaign with Mica Burton on for the sole purpose of appealing to the woke audience their viewership dropped down to like a 5K average by the end, way less than their usual.

I think it's safe to say that anyone who was interested in watching a game take place have hopped ship.

Had a feeling that would happen. Critical Role was more or less a fad that gained popularity mostly from COVID. Can't begrudge people for wanting to find some entertainment when they are stuck in their house for weeks on end. Now though, many players are heading on over to OSR as many players have stated that 5e is either too easy and they want something more challenging or they are turning away from Critical Role because the fanbase is, in my opinion, one of the most toxic fanbases in fandom right now. Such is the case when you pander to the woke Twitter crowd and shippers. Woke politics and shippers are a key way to kill off a fanbase and drive people away. It doesn't help that Mercer and his crew are utter twats on Twitter and shame people for not being woke enough and embolden the more toxic fans of their community by pandering to them. Between Mercer and his crews toxic politics and the fanbase toxic attitude it was only a matter of time before people jumped ship and look for something else.
I don't think Critical Role will end though. They still pull in some decent numbers for livestreaming but I don't think they will be as popular as they was were during the COVID era. WoTC will still keep them around so long as they continue to pull in some profit.

 

[Dang Woodchucks!]

I don't know what the fuck this thing is, and I don't want to know.
Ver archivo adjunto 2927720

Set it on fire, if it moves, shoot it until it stops.

 

[UnKillFill]

It took me a while to get to the most recent cr episode... and, uh yeah...

I'm about an hour in, and it very much seems like Travis/Chetney just arbitrarily decided to buy a women's dress for himself to wear...

To a formal event that the entire group is about to attend, where they have already said they weren't trying to draw too much attention to themselves... (Which is the literal reason why they're all buying formal attire in the first place.)

This didn't just come entirely the fuck out of nowhere for the character in general... It came entirely the fuck out of nowhere from him in the same episode same episode even.
Earlier in the same episode, he asked for men's clothing, and noped out when he found out how expensive it was.

The women's dress he bought was admittedly cheaper I'm not so sure how realistic that is, I've never had to buy women's clothing before, but from what I've seen they're always bitching about how much more expensive women's shit is... So I going to assume not very likely. But alright.

After seeing Travis buy a dress, for whatever reason, that faggot Taliesin said this...

I'm going to be mad if the joke is "Travis is a tightwad, and he just bought the dress because it was cheaper." (He never looked for cheaper men's clothing, he immediately went to the dress.) And that still doesn't make any sense at all with the character we've been presented with so far, or the story that they're trying to tell, that an elder lycanthropic male gnome would choose to wear a (dwarven) women's dress to a party, when they weren't trying to draw too much attention to themselves.

I don't think I like Chetney so much anymore. Great job, I'm pretty sure they're all unlikable now.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Actually, it’s highly unlikely they’ll depict cultures based on non-European cultures as multiracial (in all senses) because that would be racist. Yes it sounds stupid, but that’s woke logic for you.

I don’t like anime anymore, but what I find an interesting contrast is that the European-inspired cultures seen in D&D-descended fantasy anime are typically racially homogeneous and race wars are a recurring theme. Typically along the lines of “those evil racist humans are enslaving those poor catgirls, elves, or other cutesy characters.”

It's pretty hypocritical that anime usually does it to contrast evil Euros with GLORIOUS NIPPON MORALITY, despite that morality being taken wholesale from 20th century europe, and Japan back then had people compete who can chop the most Chinese babies with a katana.

Anyways wokers tend to take the easy route of taking multiple distinct cultural identities from close places in the world, squishing them to some vaguely exotic "culture" (ie, funny dresses and talks about spirituality with nature, but never actually delving outside Christian morality) and having brownish/asian-ish people in that culture depending on the origin. It's insanely racist and disrespectful but it doesn't matter since it caters to white people and minorities who never left the USA.

 

[FreedomMussel]

It's pretty hypocritical that anime usually does it to contrast evil Euros with GLORIOUS NIPPON MORALITY, despite that morality being taken wholesale from 20th century europe, and Japan back then had people compete who can chop the most Chinese babies with a katana.

Anyways wokers tend to take the easy route of taking multiple distinct cultural identities from close places in the world, squishing them to some vaguely exotic "culture" (ie, funny dresses and talks about spirituality with nature, but never actually delving outside Christian morality) and having brownish/asian-ish people in that culture depending on the origin. It's insanely racist and disrespectful but it doesn't matter since it caters to white people and minorities who never left the USA.

That’s very strange. The USA is composed of multiple states with distinct local cultures. You’d think that would influence how yankee creators would world build, but oddly no?

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

That’s very strange. The USA is composed of multiple states with distinct local cultures. You’d think that would influence how yankee creators would world build, but oddly no?

The opposite, due to how much gaslighting there is in the entertainment industry their worldview is that America is divided into two cultures: The good globohomo tranny loving, and the evil bible waving homo burning.
Even if the did come from outside a big city they'll quickly delude themselves to thinking it was full of terrible people and they are enlightened for working in an industry that's filled with sex for benefits.

It's like how the use of "white people/culture" is ridiculous due to the ethnic variety and history of europe. The woke worldview revolves around immediately judging everything around the most basic components.

 

[The Ugly One]

Doing away with racial traits will definitely be a sign of what's worse to come. I don't know if it will necessarily kill 5e but it will be the mark of a slide down a very unpleasant slippery slope of utter wokeness that will push the hardcore tabletop community either back to previous editions or new games altogether. Critical Role played a key part in bringing in a horde of danger hairs to the community and that's something I'll never forgive Matt for.

5e's business model is based on relying on biannual book-length campaign releases. As the content becomes ever more woke under the guidance of Jeremy Crawford, even though the people who buy those books tend to lean left, they'll cross a point where the stuff stops selling.

Earlier in the same episode, he asked for men's clothing, and noped out when he found out how expensive it was.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=h6AkvAj_hao:3335The women's dress he bought was admittedly cheaper I'm not so sure how realistic that is, I've never had to buy women's clothing before, but from what I've seen they're always bitching about how much more expensive women's shit is... So I going to assume not very likely. But alright.

Men's formal wear is more expensive because you don't buy a new one for every occasion. This is also why the cuts don't vary as much with trends. Your typical man wears a suit until either he gets too fat to fit into it or the elbows wear out. Your typical woman buys a formal dress and wears it maybe twice.