Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

[Wessex]

When Christ was crucified, the curtain to the Holy of Holies was torn and, because of His sacrifice, Christ has become the new high priest and allows us to be in the presence of God (Hebrews 10:19-22). Not only may we be in the presence Lord, but we have also been given the authority and a directive to correct, rebuke, and encourage others (2 Timothy 3:16-17, 4:1-5).

Through Christ's sacrifice, all believers are cloaked in him, and are made sanctified to speak with and pray to the Lord. This too, leads all of His children to be equal in His eyes.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3: 28-29 (for a full reading Galatians 3:23-29).

 

[Dan of Steel]

Atheists are like the MGTOW: nonstop seething impotently at another group that hardly thinks about them.

Back when I was an atheist/agnostic (I was never fully committed to being an atheist because even then I thought it was a bit presumptive to think you know with absolute certainty that there is no god), and the seething/raging at Christians even before mocking reddit atheists was a thing so pre-2013 or so. I just never got the impressions that any Christians I would meet were that much worse than any other group of people. Like I might disagree with their theology (ironically I'd never read a page of the Bible in my life when I was more agnostic), but never felt any acrimony from friends/family that were Christian and knew I wasn't. Maybe it would be different if I grew up in an area with a lot of Pentecostals or really hardcore evangelists or southern Baptists, but that was never my experience.

Not Catholic either, but I think it might have to do with people not realizing how much of a commitment it is to join a religion. People probably just assume it's like a social club you join and then you can just show up whenever you want.

I'm sure what stops some people too is thinking that all churches are either megachurches ran by shyster frauds, or any real churches consist exclusively of octogenarians with the congregation shrinking every year as more member die out. I know for me personally, because I'm not actively apart of any faith community/church I don't call myself a Christian even though I do believe in God and love the big JC, I'd feel like a fraud calling myself a Christian because being a Christian is being committed a local faith community that connects to the broader Church, and I don't want to steal Christbro valor.

 

[Generic Anime Girl]

Not Catholic either, but I think it might have to do with people not realizing how much of a commitment it is to join a religion. People probably just assume it's like a social club you join and then you can just show up whenever you want.

I know with Catholicism (correct me if I’m wrong), it’s a lifetime thing for people born into it. I don’t understand how someone claims to be part of a religion that emphasizes sacraments and participation, but drop off the face of the Earth only until it’s Holy Week or something. My parents stopped going to Church in college, but got a Catholic Marriage, and never stepped foot in a church for a Mass ever again. This happened a lot with my peers but for confirmations: Go to CCD, get confirmed, never go to church again.

People think baptism/confirmation is the end goal for some reason, rather than the beginning of the long narrow path.

You make a good point. I feel like secular society has given people an excuse to see religion like an obligation rather than a core part of your life.

I'm sure what stops some people too is thinking that all churches are either megachurches ran by shyster frauds, or any real churches consist exclusively of octogenarians with the congregation shrinking every year as more member die out.

Unfortunately, I see both megachurches (or strip mall churches) and boomer high church protestant churches a lot in my area. I know a lot more guys my age who are catholic make the effort to go to church or convert to it entirely, while there’s a local strip mall church that recruits straight from the community colleges and social media.
The English speaking service of my church is quite small and has a lot of older people, while the Spanish speaking ward has to be at least triple the size attendance wise and diverse age wise. Meanwhile, other churches in my state at least have a younger congregation. Demographics, I guess.

But I do disagree with mega churches as a concept. There’s no real sense of community if there’s a huge stadium full of people you’ll never get to know and the pastor is preaching repackaged, feel good Baptist theology wearing shoes funded with your tithe money. I’d prefer octogenerian church.

 

[Jotch]

Right! That's why I keep encouraging people to update their Pascal's wager: An atheist doesn't care about Hell, but you can tell them that despite the restrictions Christianity imposes, if it's true it profits Heaven and if it's false it still provides a healthier lifestyle than plain indulgence.

I remember someone talking about an approach to atheists like this called "black box", where the atheist is encouraged to judge Christianity not by the actual doctrine, but simply by looking at what the doctrine provides to believers, and how believers may benefit secular society at large.

I think Benjamin Franklin was one guy who believed in this strongly. He was an atheist, but strongly valued Christianity as a social benefit.

I'm no proper practiced apologetic/theologian of course, and this might or might not be a terrible way to start someone off, but I think about it a good bit sometimes.

 

[Cun75p4rkl35]

Back when I was an atheist/agnostic

What changed your mind, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[Dan of Steel]

What changed your mind, if you don't mind my asking?

A combination of a few things. One, being a big fan of history, and eventually you get to a point reading history if you have empathy for the people you're reading about that a lot of times they're smart rational people working in the frameworks they have, and just because they don't heckin love science that doesn't make them dumb. A lot of history is humanity being very irrational as well, but I digress. Secondly it would be my natural inclination towards things that cannot be explained by science or the material world. I've always liked the quote from Hamlet "There are more things on Heaven and Earth, than are dreamt of in your philosophies, Horatio". As a kid I grew up listening to things like Coast To Coast AM, and that gave me an inclination to the supernatural, and a fascination with all things occult and esoteric. I would spend nights reading the fringiest of fringe shit on Hermetics, Theosophy, Rosicrucianism etc. without even considering picking up the Bible. Not out of a sense of pride or anything like that but just lack of interest. Third because I have a bad habit because of my upbringing of constantly being self-critical and what I like to call "self auditing" my own beliefs. When I got into meditation in my early 20s I discovered that I could take my brain out of my head in a metaphorical sense and examine how I thought about things looking for inconsistencies and things I believed purely out of emotion. This partly also comes from being raised/being a low self-esteem kid growing up but I've PL'd enough as it is.

So because of all those things, it lead to gain an interest in the Bible critically once I learned what was in it. The historicity of various books, letters, and how they each have a story and the richness of the stories because they're all 2000-years-old+ means you can get really deep into something like Mark, even though it's the shortest of the Gospels. Looking at the Bible critically and the teachings of Jesus eventually lead me to finding it the most rational and simultaneously emotionally satisfying life philosophy. I've always believed that true evil exists in the world too. But the good news is, that means true good has to exist as well, and that true good comes from somewhere. You can probably imagine my bad habit of constantly "self auditing" can lead to being agnostic on pretty much everything. So Christ's teachings give me a foundation of principals to rely on that were already there, I just didn't know how to describe them intellectually.

So that leads me to where I am now, which I like to autistically call nondenominational Christian mysticism. I've enjoyed learning about all the different aspects of the Church, from Protestantism which I'm more familiar with, Catholicism and Orthodoxy. and I think there's wisdom in all of them.

 

[Koomala Sharrtis]

Atheists are like the MGTOW: nonstop seething impotently at another group that hardly thinks about them.

Christianity is absolutely obsessed with what it considers anti-Christianity. It is absolutely its foundation to constantly compare itself to atheists. Atheists and Christians were both led to the same altar, and essentially it's easy pickings everywhere because of how much ideological bullshit cucks both sides. It is truly a love-hate relationship. Christians passively-aggressively try to hide they have all the intellectual integrity in the world, literally lying outright that you require "muh faith". They don't think it's faith at all, they literally think it's the most rational damn thing to imagine they haven't converged on their "faith" through actual thought processes and a bunch of exercises in rationalization. It's impressive how superior it makes them feel, but this is just as when muh secular skepticism atheist cucks pretend they are being neutral or impressive in their Christianity-targeted deranged analyses of all this crap that obscures even any actual consideration of what theology ought to be, i.e. what it would mean without the context of the goyslop story the entire West has been inundated with. It's the ocean the fish aren't aware of.

 

[marlimar]

They don't think it's faith at all, they literally think it's the most rational damn thing to imagine they haven't converged on their "faith" through actual thought processes and a bunch of exercises in rationalization

What's your proposed alternative?

 

[Squanto Airi]

I'm sure what stops some people too is thinking that all churches are either megachurches ran by shyster frauds, or any real churches consist exclusively of octogenarians with the congregation shrinking every year as more member die out. I know for me personally, because I'm not actively apart of any faith community/church I don't call myself a Christian even though I do believe in God and love the big JC, I'd feel like a fraud calling myself a Christian because being a Christian is being committed a local faith community that connects to the broader Church, and I don't want to steal Christbro valor.

Why not start going to a church that preaches the gospel?

I know with Catholicism (correct me if I’m wrong), it’s a lifetime thing for people born into it. I don’t understand how someone claims to be part of a religion that emphasizes sacraments and participation, but drop off the face of the Earth only until it’s Holy Week or something. My parents stopped going to Church in college, but got a Catholic Marriage, and never stepped foot in a church for a Mass ever again. This happened a lot with my peers but for confirmations: Go to CCD, get confirmed, never go to church again.

I see that a lot with the Cradle Orthodox at my church. The converts are steadily coming, but the ones born into the church only come around Holy Week and Christmas.

You make a good point. I feel like secular society has given people an excuse to see religion like an obligation rather than a core part of your life.

It also focuses on saved v not saved rather than trying to have a personal relation with Christ.

 

[LightDragonman1]

To think, some turned away from following Christianity because of colonialism.




Some always, especially in this day and age, see anything regarding spreading the faith, even if it wasn't part of the extreme parts of that aspect, imperialism.

 

[Neverender]

Christianity is absolutely obsessed with what it considers anti-Christianity. It is absolutely its foundation to constantly compare itself to atheists. [...] Christians passively-aggressively try to hide they have all the intellectual integrity in the world, literally lying outright that you require "muh faith". They don't think it's faith at all, they literally think it's the most rational damn thing to imagine they haven't converged on their "faith" through actual thought processes and a bunch of exercises in rationalization.

You're not wrong. Being born again is partially an intellectual process. We can't separate reason and the rational from our process of accepting Christ. I don't agree that the experience of being born again is only because of intellectualization and rationalization strategies, if that's what you think/are implying.

 

[Dan of Steel]

Why not start going to a church that preaches the gospel?

That's my project next (I guess this month since it's already May fuckin hell) month is to attend a bunch of different church services each Sunday. See what I like, what I dislike, and if I can find a "home" so to speak.

 

[Catgirl Tyranid]

Christianity is absolutely obsessed with what it considers anti-Christianity. It is absolutely its foundation to constantly compare itself to atheists. Atheists and Christians were both led to the same altar, and essentially it's easy pickings everywhere because of how much ideological bullshit cucks both sides. It is truly a love-hate relationship. Christians passively-aggressively try to hide they have all the intellectual integrity in the world, literally lying outright that you require "muh faith". They don't think it's faith at all, they literally think it's the most rational damn thing to imagine they haven't converged on their "faith" through actual thought processes and a bunch of exercises in rationalization. It's impressive how superior it makes them feel, but this is just as when muh secular skepticism atheist cucks pretend they are being neutral or impressive in their Christianity-targeted deranged analyses of all this crap that obscures even any actual consideration of what theology ought to be, i.e. what it would mean without the context of the goyslop story the entire West has been inundated with. It's the ocean the fish aren't aware of.

Why are you so caustic?

 

[Soycast II]

Why are you so caustic?

I think in general it’s site culture (maybe he uses 4chan or the sharty as well) but he hasn’t quite figured out proper decorum for a Christian thread.

 

[marlimar]

I think in general it’s site culture (maybe he uses 4chan or the sharty as well) but he hasn’t quite figured out proper decorum for a Christian thread.

He is looking for a reason to hate, first it was no free will, now it's not allowing rationale in spirituality, any reason to get dunked on it seems. Enmity is a vice like real drugs, spreading it on KF is akin to obese folks at a buffet, there's plenty of targets of opportunity.

Going back to the verses from James: don't only hear the gospel and deceive yourself that you are doing God's will, but act upon it; so we are presented to meet hostility with kindness in the easiest place to do it, online anonymously.

We have the ability to just change tabs or turn off the computer and avoid the discord (I still struggle with this with the Catholic interpretation of scripture here, but patience is a learning process that requires time).

 

[Koomala Sharrtis]

Why are you so caustic?

I think in general it’s site culture (maybe he uses 4chan or the sharty as well) but he hasn’t quite figured out proper decorum for a Christian thread.

>muh caustic KW
Perfect display of passive-aggressive toxicity. You would not ask this anywhere on the forum, yet think that your cuck beliefs are the special kind of cuck beliefs that should be criticized in a special way because then your emotional pleading is easier to obscure. Your muh sense of community is too enticing for you to ever back up from and address any negative connotations without its huge biases. Why address anything of substance when you can't act high-and-mighty while deceiving people of your humility or presumedly superior epistemological or moral framework.

Christian identity is the driving force, and when the actual substance of anything in your faith is being discussed you will cling to your identity in ways that are plain to see. That's why evident logical contradictions are much less controversial to you and trivial to concede, whilst criticizing the culture that actively encourages them completely riles you up because muh faith so speshul iz still better if ppl acted like it tru. This very implicit claim is the foundation of your epistemology and the one you are least likely to be willing to accept criticism about, since it's so appealing for you to rationalize through some retrospective pretense with the thousand years of history and indeed assert any given "non-Christian" successful culture or idea derives from Christianity anyhow in some convenient manner.

He is looking for a reason to hate, first it was no free will, now it's not allowing rationale in spirituality, any reason to get dunked on it seems. Enmity is a vice like real drugs, spreading it on KF is akin to obese folks at a buffet, there's plenty of targets of opportunity.

You asked me what alternatives there are. To what? To Christianity?

You all got dunked on when I pointed out the glaring logical contradictions, nobody was able to address them rationally. The reacts to my posts? One or two MatIs and the rest were "Dumb" etc. You indeed have to pretend the causticity isn't there when it clearly is, just because it's backed up by actual arguments, so you have to pretend the arguments are the problem, lmao.

 

[marlimar]

so you have to pretend the arguments are the problem

Our argument is Christ crucified.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

I don't get what we're talking about here anymore

 

[Koomala Sharrtis]

Our argument is Christ crucified.

There is not even any evidence that he existed. Like, none. Your muh scholarly consensus cuckery is not the safeguard you think it is, but first you would have to actually care to examine what it incorrectly deems to be evidence, not just accept the claim itself because muh consensus. Have you actually ever done that? Have any Christians but a handful?

 

[Squanto Airi]

cuck

cuck

Awww you learned your first insult. Did your wife's boyfriend tell you that one?