Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 209 - We cannot get a real satisfaction out of our work unless we pause, frequently, to ask ourselves why we are doing it, and whether its purpose is one (of which) our minds wholeheartedly approve.
 
I'm "stuck" for want of a better word and frustrated.

I've been looking into all of the denominations and between the many different beliefs on how salvation works, creation, and views of the sacraments and the Anathemas the Catholics and Orthodox Churches have thrown at others, I've all ended up being was frustrated, bitter and without a clue of what to do. It genuinely makes me wonder if going back to church and trying to be an actual Christian is just a waste of time and I should just go back to being how I was and living in sin. All of the Tradcath and Orthobro shitfliging at everyone who isn't in their specific group doesn't help either.

Sorry if this sounds stupid or whatnot, i'm just upset and don't know what to do about it.
Have you tried going inside a church and seeing how it feels, see if you like it?
 
Have you tried going inside a church and seeing how it feels, see if you like it?
Yeah, I've been going to a Lutheran Church for three weeks and I appreciate how small and simple it is, but I can't really accept some of the stuff the LCMS believes. That's all secondary stuff though, I know that.

There's a small Anglican church nearby which I plan to see what it's like.
 
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Did Jesus' death on the cross represent any real cost to God the Father?
Yes, the Undying God truly died, and by His death killed death. The Trinity is indivisible in essence; What one person does, all three do as God.

Unless you’re asking if Christ paid the price for humanity’s sins for the Father in the sense of Divine Retribution. That’s a whole other can of worms.
 
Unless you’re asking if Christ paid the price for humanity’s sins for the Father in the sense of Divine Retribution. That’s a whole other can of worms.
Which does need to be addressed. The death on the Cross is a requirement for Grace to be possible. Gods infinite mercy has to exist with his infinite justice. I would not characterize God's justice as "Divine Retribution" though.
 
Yes, the Undying God truly died, and by His death killed death. The Trinity is indivisible in essence; What one person does, all three do as God.

Unless you’re asking if Christ paid the price for humanity’s sins for the Father in the sense of Divine Retribution. That’s a whole other can of worms.
So what does that mean, for God to be able to die? Is He somehow different now? Did death represent some kind of setback to His goals? I imagined God as this kind of infinite, impervious pool of energy that could never be reduced or permanently changed, but maybe it kind of fluctuated?

And why did He choose for this change event to occur at a specific point in what we perceive in liner time? Is it because we need an idea of before and after in our cultural memory?
 
Yes, the Undying God truly died, and by His death killed death. The Trinity is indivisible in essence; What one person does, all three do as God.
You have to be more careful here.

The Roman Empire was pretty impressive but they can't kill God. Jesus is fully human and fully divine, and he died on the cross like any human would have and his soul didn't dissipate, same as any other human's. The hypostatic union between the human nature of Jesus and the divine nature of Jesus remained unbroken. The existence of the hypostatic union is what allows for infinite atonement to come from Christ's human nature.

So what does that mean, for God to be able to die? Is He somehow different now? Did death represent some kind of setback to His goals? I imagined God as this kind of infinite, impervious pool of energy that could never be reduced or permanently changed, but maybe it kind of fluctuated?
The sort of tl;dr version without getting into atonement theories is that this was all part of God's divine plan. It was necessary for God to incarnate in the flesh and then die to serve as a sacrifice for the sins of humanity. It wasn't a setback, and you are correct that God is essentially immutable (in stricter terms, finite humans cannot have a causal effect on an infinite God.)
 
Which does need to be addressed. The death on the Cross is a requirement for Grace to be possible. Gods infinite mercy has to exist with his infinite justice. I would not characterize God's justice as "Divine Retribution" though.
Forgive me, the proper term I meant was Penal Substitution. His justice is not exercised on an innocent Man; It is His mercy that he bears the sins like the goat that was driven from the camp to be sent into death. His justice is in paying back all that was owed to whom it was owed. For death, he gave death. For the repentant, he gives life. Sin is the debt we owe to the ruler of this world. We offer it up to Christ our King, who forgives our great debt, and sends it home. It’s not a scourge to be held against us, but an ailment to be healed.
So what does that mean, for God to be able to die? Is He somehow different now? Did death represent some kind of setback to His goals? I imagined God as this kind of infinite, impervious pool of energy that could never be reduced or permanently changed, but maybe it kind of fluctuated?

And why did He choose for this change event to occur at a specific point in what we perceive in liner time? Is it because we need an idea of before and after in our cultural memory?
God is more than we could ever fully know. God’s death is a mystery beyond answering, in the same way that His birth is. But Christ is fully God and fully man, and in order to free us from sin did he die. Christ, being God, is the only truly free man; His death was not demanded, nor forced upon Him, as death is for us. When He died, He fully and totally chose to die out of love for the world.

Death wasn’t a setback; It was a mercy for us all, that we may not continue in our sinful state eternally, but that this may end so we can begin fully in eternal life. His death was the final victory for all. This inescapable end was turned from tragedy and suffering into triumph and joy.

God is an unchanging changingness. He is everywhere present and in all things. Where One is, all Three are there. God is unending and beyond all created things, even time.

It occurred at the time it did because it was the time appropriate for it. The perfect moment for God to be revealed for all. There are different reasons why it was that particular time; A time where Israel was reformed, yet subjugated, divided, and powerless. A time where a great empire existed that could (and did) scatter the seeds of Christ across the world easily, yet also resist and forge them to be strong and resilient. A time where that same empire also teetered between chaos, and had only just been established. A time in which the generations of man from Adam to Christ were fully and finally prepared. But ultimately, it was the right time because God knew it to be so. That it occurred for us in time is because we exist in time.
 
So what does that mean, for God to be able to die?
Well, the entire point is that he didn't die. He came back to life and was reembodied in the resurrection.

Is He somehow different now?
No.

Did death represent some kind of setback to His goals?
It was the goal.

I imagined God as this kind of infinite, impervious pool of energy that could never be reduced or permanently changed, but maybe it kind of fluctuated?
Its not really possible to comprehend God's totality. Thinking of him as some sort of energy or force of nature is one way people to try and articulate the concept. What is important to know though is that for the purposes of Jesus that "energy" was embodied within mortal flesh.

And why did He choose for this change event to occur at a specific point in what we perceive in liner time? Is it because we need an idea of before and after in our cultural memory?
Because he decided that was the place in time to do it. Keep in mind though that God exists outside of Time, so the death and resurrection of christ is as much retroactive back through time as it is carried foreword.
 
You ever have to deal with a really progressive branch of Christianity that basically denies everything that Christianity is in order to appease people who don't want to be Christian. Unitarians and the Church of Canada are what I mostly mean, but everything about them is hollow.

They're the type to ignore Paul and especially Corinthians. Just full rejection of the Resurrection. They're extremely frustrating people. Spiritually dead and pitiable.

Anti-Pauline "Christians" get on my nerves. Paul and Peter were imperfect, but that was why they were chosen. The people who paraphrase Ephesians and contextualize it with American Chattel slavery are almost always the type who want Christianity to move with the world.
 
Unfortunately they've shut down and Google maps hasn't updated so I guess thats a bust.
Here's a map of the most reverent Catholic Masses in America:

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a way to filter by liturgical rites, but there's a map specifically for Traditional Latin Masses:

For more traditional, non-liberal Anglican churches, there's this map:

And for Orthodox churches, this map will be helpful:
 
Here's a map of the most reverent Catholic Masses in America:

Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a way to filter by liturgical rites, but there's a map specifically for Traditional Latin Masses:

For more traditional, non-liberal Anglican churches, there's this map:

And for Orthodox churches, this map will be helpful:
'Preciate it, man.
 
Unfortunately they've shut down and Google maps hasn't updated so I guess thats a bust.
Sad truth. The mainline Episcopal/Anglican church was very effective at purging the true believers from the denomination. Most of the conservative Anglican congregations failed to hold together. Either dying off or just moving on to other places like Baptists or Catholics.
 
Pretty sure the thread consensus is any church that adheres to the Council of Nicaea is okay.

When it comes to online communities, it's useful to label people as Christian if they affirm the Nicene Creed as a bare minimum. I've seen a lot of Discord Christian groups do this. It is very helpful especially when you're dealing with people who pretend to be sheep but they're really wolves of some form.

Some servers will even put you into a timeout area and label you a tare among the wheat unless you repent.

New Kingdom Media (a Anglican YouTuber) did a good video recently about Denominational Apologetics, and how torturing yourself with overthinking ancient historical documents can be detriment to your wellbeing. It's important to touch grass and remember the basics of Christianity is true. People overvalue online Christian voices over their more educated clergy and the laymen in their congregation, it's like trying to live on a diet of Junk food alone.
 
Sad truth. The mainline Episcopal/Anglican church was very effective at purging the true believers from the denomination. Most of the conservative Anglican congregations failed to hold together. Either dying off or just moving on to other places like Baptists or Catholics.
It's been interesting watching the whole GAFCON thing play out. To me, anyway, because I am a dumb nerd.

It's like White Man's Burden 2.0 where Canterbury thinks they have a moral obligation to eliminate anti-LGBTQ thinking in the global south.
 
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