Chainsaw Man - Peak Fiction in the making

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Última edición:
Jace on ice dijo:
Dude international assassins is one of the best arcs I've ever read in a manga and Denji vs Makima is one of my favorite fights.

Ain't no way we doing this "it was always bad thing."
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It really seems like he didn't know what to do after part 1. He just threw things at a wall and tried to see what stuck. And then pulled a bunch of weird curve balls, added more than was necessary, kept going on, and realized in what was seemingly the grand final fight he wasn't interested in his own plot anymore, deciding to reset things to an idealized part 1.
 
God of Nothing dijo:
It really seems like he didn't know what to do after part 1. He just threw things at a wall and tried to see what stuck. And then pulled a bunch of weird curve balls, added more than was necessary, kept going on, and realized in what was seemingly the grand final fight he wasn't interested in his own plot anymore, deciding to reset things to an idealized part 1.
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I think Fuji moto at least had an idea to where he was taking the story, given that he already introduced the concept of the four horseman and the apocalypse prophecy on part 1.

Not to mention that he ended part 1 with a to be continued.

Obviously we can only guess, but I think Fujimoto lost control of the plot, double protagonists, a larger cast of characters numerous plot threads introduced that were not being developed or stuck, or even stuff from part one, like Power being back, that seems like Fujimoto couldn't work with.

And then there are some stuff that Fujimoto wrote himself into a corner, like Nayuta's death and how messy the story came to be.

And to untangle that mess, given the usual manga pacing, we would be looking at least 3 more so years of publication.

To give some perspective, Gege Akutami also " gave up" on his manga, and basically rushed into the big climatic fight, and even then, he had to spend a year and half on just that big Sukuna fight. And that was the bare minimum to at least end somewhat ok with the readership.

Fujimoto wanted out, and he wanted as fast as he could, so he just pulled the plug and said "fuck it I'm done, I'm gonna draw a big one shot about a ghost girl who is also an alien that can travel through the multiverse... Also she only talks doing movie references".
 
God of Nothing dijo:
ah, we are in the it was retroactively bad phase
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Good thing that you have this entire thread to go back and see my posts.

Jace on ice dijo:
Dude international assassins is one of the best arcs I've ever read in a manga and Denji vs Makima is one of my favorite fights.

Ain't no way we doing this "it was always bad thing."
Presiona para expandir...
Please go back and read more manga, you NEED to read more good stuff.

TommyHeavenly6 dijo:
>Speedread the entire first half of the series
>Kept reading weekly for Part 2 despite hating the entire premise of the series outside of the comedic bits
>"Boruto actually cares about it's story unlike Chainsaw Man"
Got me to reply at least. Excellent bait.
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The problem is that the entire worldview of Chainsaw Man is built on a dogshit execution.

You either have people totally afraid of devils from the beginning and built the entire premisse based on that. Devils in Chainsaw Man are like rain, it feels like you get bum out if you go outside and it is raining, after you go outside 2 days later it is not raining anymore. Then 3 days again it is raining again. Now change the rain for a devil killing everyone you know or razing an entire block of your city. For the normal characters it is just a Thursday for them. But in part 2 Fujimoto wanted to make a cult of Chainsaw man like he was a saviour or a pop star, except he wasn't the very first one to fight against Devils. Since there is a branch of the government that was already doing this shit in part 1.

It is like you get a job in civil engineer for the government, pave a road then suddenly people are loving you even when there was people doing it before in the same government.

And since our MC is a complete idiotic retarded person, he isn't the one who should learn about these kind of world building that would make the setting good for this story. In fact the very world building of this very series goes against the core concept since this world is in the past and not our present.

Do you know a series that does this very same concept of someone becoming a hero but in the present? Ultraman by Shimizu Eiichi and Shimoguchi Tomohiro. In this series we see how the populace see the heroes and how they view changes depending of the situation, how they are manipulated by media and aliens to view their heroes as the sole reason to why they are being attacked by Aliens. How both Aliens and Humans in Earth interact and how rifts starts showing up.

And I don't even think Ultraman is a very good manga, it is just a good one. I used Boruto as example but it could be Naruto, One Piece or whatever shounen jump slop manga from two decades ago. Compare to chainsaw man, see how much more it does offer for the reader in terms of narrative, world building, concepts, characters and so on.

And the big truth: there is nothing that Chainsaw Man does that Devilman already didn't do back in the 70s. Chainsaw Man is derivative as fuck that their only interesting element is that the main character is incredibly stupid and this lead to comedy. (And even this comedy is quite juvenile)

And part 2 in the end is what we got: an unfocused mess of whatever he would throw in the week, new characters to kill, the same dogshit artstyle from before and an ending that would only piss blind people that didn't realize that this manga was stupid from day 1.
 
Bolo_the_Second dijo:
I think Fuji moto at least had an idea to where he was taking the story, given that he already introduced the concept of the four horseman and the apocalypse prophecy on part 1.

Not to mention that he ended part 1 with a to be continued.

Obviously we can only guess, but I think Fujimoto lost control of the plot, double protagonists, a larger cast of characters numerous plot threads introduced that were not being developed or stuck, or even stuff from part one, like Power being back, that seems like Fujimoto couldn't work with.

And then there are some stuff that Fujimoto wrote himself into a corner, like Nayuta's death and how messy the story came to be.

And to untangle that mess, given the usual manga pacing, we would be looking at least 3 more so years of publication.

To give some perspective, Gege Akutami also " gave up" on his manga, and basically rushed into the big climatic fight, and even then, he had to spend a year and half on just that big Sukuna fight. And that was the bare minimum to at least end somewhat ok with the readership.

Fujimoto wanted out, and he wanted as fast as he could, so he just pulled the plug and said "fuck it I'm done, I'm gonna draw a big one shot about a ghost girl who is also an alien that can travel through the multiverse... Also she only talks doing movie references".
Presiona para expandir...

Yeah probably this. Murdering all the main cast save Denji in act I damaged the story a bunch but was recoverable from. but after killing Nayuta everything started to flounder and he didn't know where to go anymore.

I don't think any of it was inevitable either, he could have developed threads, had more of an actual ending happy or sad, at least made it a complete story. Instead it was a lot of hype and setup and then it fizzled out and just stopped.
 
Bolo_the_Second dijo:
I think Fuji moto at least had an idea to where he was taking the story, given that he already introduced the concept of the four horseman and the apocalypse prophecy on part 1.

Not to mention that he ended part 1 with a to be continued.

Obviously we can only guess, but I think Fujimoto lost control of the plot, double protagonists, a larger cast of characters numerous plot threads introduced that were not being developed or stuck, or even stuff from part one, like Power being back, that seems like Fujimoto couldn't work with.

And then there are some stuff that Fujimoto wrote himself into a corner, like Nayuta's death and how messy the story came to be.

And to untangle that mess, given the usual manga pacing, we would be looking at least 3 more so years of publication.

To give some perspective, Gege Akutami also " gave up" on his manga, and basically rushed into the big climatic fight, and even then, he had to spend a year and half on just that big Sukuna fight. And that was the bare minimum to at least end somewhat ok with the readership.

Fujimoto wanted out, and he wanted as fast as he could, so he just pulled the plug and said "fuck it I'm done, I'm gonna draw a big one shot about a ghost girl who is also an alien that can travel through the multiverse... Also she only talks doing movie references".
Presiona para expandir...
Bullshit, if he was burned out he could have just taken a vacation writing for as long as he wanted, even for years without any pushback. Instead the ending he shat out is worse than not having any ending made and his editor didn't do the sane thing of screaming on him after he submitted it.
 
wtfNeedSignUp dijo:
Bullshit, if he was burned out he could have just taken a vacation writing for as long as he wanted, even for years without any pushback. Instead the ending he shat out is worse than not having any ending made and his editor didn't do the sane thing of screaming on him after he submitted it.
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Fujimoto's editor could've screamed till he was blue in the face, and he probably did, still wouldn't have made a difference.

Mangakas, for the most part, are independent contractors, they might not have the benefits that come from being directly employed, such as health care, profit share, stable income etc, but they do have a certain degree of independance when it comes to their creations.

It is a two edged blade for the publishers, it allows them to exploit young creators with low pay and a larger variety of opportunities to hit an IP jackpot. That is why Shueisha is constantly on the Axe grind, they keep going throught mangakas that till they hit on a My Hero Academia or Demon Slayers, because they can pull the plug anytime since the Mangakas aren't under direct employment.

But they also have to give up a certain amount of control when it comes to publication, they can't force a mangaka to work if they don't want to and they are not allowed to continue a series without the creator's say so.

And sure, Chainsaw man could've have been put on a Hiatus... but Fujimoto made so much money under this license that he doesn't have to if he doesn't want... and turns ou Fujimoto doesn't want to do CSM anymore.

"Fuck you money" means just that, Fujimoto gets to say fuck you and the publisher has to take it.
 
Última edición:
Registration dijo:
And part 2 in the end is what we got: an unfocused mess of whatever he would throw in the week, new characters to kill, the same dogshit artstyle from before and an ending that would only piss blind people that didn't realize that this manga was stupid from day 1.
Presiona para expandir...
Well hopefully you'll like the second manga you read more than chainsaw man.
 
Bolo_the_Second dijo:
Fujimoto's editor could've screamed till he was blue in the face, and he probably did, still wouldn't have made a difference.

Mangakas, for the most part, are independent contractors, they might not have the benefits that come from being directly employed, such as health care, profit share, stable income etc, but they do have a certain degree of independance when it comes to their creations.

It is a two edged blade for the publishers, it allows them to exploit young creators with low pay and a larger variety of opportunities to hit an IP jackpot. That is why Shueisha is constantly on the Axe grind, they keep going throught mangakas that till they hit on a My Hero Academia or Demon Slayers, because they can pull the plug anytime since the Mangakas aren't under direct employment.

But they also have to give up a certain amount of control when it comes to publication, they can't force a mangaka to work if they don't want to and they are not allowed to continue a series without the creator's say so.

And sure, Chainsaw man could've have been put on a Hiatus... but Fujimoto made so much money under this license that he doesn't have to if he doesn't want... and turns ou Fujimoto doesn't want to do CSM anymore.

"Fuck you money" means just that, Fujimoto gets to say fuck you and the publisher has to take it.
Presiona para expandir...
Editors exist to tard wrangle mangakas, the most famous example is Akira Toriyama having a lot of retarded ideas that were prevented by his editor, and it ended up creating some of the best parts of Dragon Ball. Either Fujimoto decided to ignore his editor, or the editor was such a ball sucker he never shot down anything Fujimoto did, but the end result is that, at best, Fujimoto destroyed an entire franchise and alienated a large chunk of future readers. At worst he created so much damage to a multiple companies that sunk a lot of money into the franchise that he will be blacklisted.
 
wtfNeedSignUp dijo:
At worst he created so much damage to a multiple companies that sunk a lot of money into the franchise that he will be blacklisted.
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Is failing upwards not a thing in Japan, like how it is in the Western video game industry where devs involved with massive game failures (i.e. Jon Weenieskeet working on Concord and then finding a job at Blizzard) still manage to find work?
 
Thiletonomics dijo:
Is failing upwards not a thing in Japan, like how it is in the Western video game industry where devs involved with massive game failures (i.e. Jon Weenieskeet working on Concord and then finding a job at Blizzard) still manage to find work?
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Only if you are well connected, if not then you are a prime target to be taught a lesson to warn everyone else.
 
wtfNeedSignUp dijo:
Fujimoto destroyed an entire franchise and alienated a large chunk of future readers. At worst he created so much damage to a multiple companies that sunk a lot of money into the franchise that he will be blacklisted.
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Maybe, or maybe not.

Here is the thing, Mangakas, at least the ones under Shueisha, have creative rights only to the manga, and while they get the residuals over adaptations, like anime, they don't get any say besides being a consultant.

And we have multiple examples of anime adaptations diverging from the original manga due to public reception, it is a lot more common than one would think. That is why people joke about "it's gonna get fixed in the anime".

Now, are they going to do this with CSM? Hard to say, if they keep going with Studio Mappa, a mismanaged slave driving hell-hole, we are going to see part 2 only by the end of this decade and who knows if people would be still be interested.

Yes Fujimoto's stunt has soured the waters, but who can tell? maybe the next arc turns out to be so good that CSM is back on people's good graces, audiences are fickle after all, and that Reze movie made so much money that it would be foolish to let this IP to be dormant.

As for Fujimoto, sure, people back in the Shonen Jump officies mut hate the motherfucker, but you can count on one hand current mangakas with international recognition, and he is one of them. They will publish him again, and if his next work is as good as "Goodbye Eri" or "Look Back", then the public will forgive him and he is back on good graces.
 
First time I came across this, I just thought it was cute fanart but this is actually by Fujimoto, alongside him endorsing the Texas Chainsaw Massacre digital remaster

HJ6-XSfbwAA_xWq.jpg
 
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