Capital Punishment

[autisticdragonkin]

Call a spade a spade a spade; that's not euthanasia, it's execution.

I guess I could just call it incapacitory execution as opposed to deterrent execution

There was an arms dealer taken down recently in Birmingham, can't remember the name. Honestly a lot more people turn a profit on crime than you'd realise, it's just most of them a pretty damn careful not to get caught; the fame isn't worth life in prison.

I do think this is the case but for the most case just losing everything you own and going to prison for an extended period is enough to counteract the incentive (of course probability needs to be taken into account for this so some of them might require execution)

 

[Lachlan Hunter McIntyre]

Prison exists to rehabilitate criminals and to teach them how to operate in society at large. Be productive members of humanity. The abolishment of the death penalty means the people who would otherwise be killed off now have to live in prison the rest of their lives. They cannot ever be returned to society, but without capital punishment there is nowhere else for them to go. Thus creating an ever-increasing need for more prisons and more people to run them. Making a larger and larger need for financing to house criminals that cannot ever return to society.

It is stupid and a waste of taxpayer money to provide housing for a serial killer just so he doesn't get the chair. There should be no life sentence. If you cannot be redeemed, you should be culled. It is unethical to put additional strain on both the economy and human resources just to keep an evil person alive.

 

[Marvin]

It is unethical to put additional strain on both the economy and human resources just to keep an evil person alive.

Not if you think the death penalty is equally (or more) unethical.

 

[Lachlan Hunter McIntyre]

Not if you think the death penalty is equally (or more) unethical.

Although I can understand that argument, what's more unethical. A mass murderer allowed to live out his life with free food and health care living off your and my money? Or using that money to actually help those that can be helped to be reintroduced to the populace?

 

[Marvin]

Although I can understand that argument, what's more unethical. A mass murderer allowed to live out his life with free food and health care living off your and my money? Or using that money to actually help those that can be helped to be reintroduced to the populace?

It quite possibly might be the former, if you think that way.

Death is pretty absolute, and arguments relating to it get pretty absolute as well.

 

[Lachlan Hunter McIntyre]

It quite possibly might be the former, if you think that way.

Death is pretty absolute, and arguments relating to it get pretty absolute as well.

Death is absolute. Exactly. Most people don't deserve to die. But someone who kills for fun? Eats a person's organs for fun? Slaughters innocent people just to see if they could? They're some of the very few who do deserve to die. They are owed no sympathy.

 

[Marvin]

Death is absolute. Exactly. Most people don't deserve to die. But someone who kills for fun? Eats a person's organs for fun? Slaughters innocent people just to see if they could? They're some of the very few who do deserve to die. They are owed no sympathy.

It's not about sympathy. It's about principles. Some people legitimately believe that killing someone is unacceptable, regardless of the circumstances. It's not the most uncommon belief.

 

[Lachlan Hunter McIntyre]

It's not about sympathy. It's about principles. Some people legitimately believe that killing someone is unacceptable, regardless of the circumstances. It's not the most uncommon belief.

And I truly don't understand that. Because otherwise they're just going to rot in prison for the rest of their life. Taking up space that could be used to HELP someone who can be helped. Prisons have finite area. And every cell dedicated to someone with a life sentence is a cell that can't be used to re-integrate someone. So more prisons have to be built. Which puts an even greater stress on infrastructure and the economy. And people question the for-profit prison system.

 

[Lachlan Hunter McIntyre]

It's not about sympathy. It's about principles. Some people legitimately believe that killing someone is unacceptable, regardless of the circumstances. It's not the most uncommon belief.

But hey, at least you don't have to have icky thoughts about a dead human.

 

[Marvin]

And I truly don't understand that.

Dude, people believe in god. Opposing capital punishment is one of the least bonkers beliefs people hold, especially considering all the flaws in the legal system.

And when you consider the numbers, death row inmates aren't remotely clogging up prisons. Shitty laws, particularly ones involving drugs, are what are clogging up prisons. Death row inmates aren't even a line item on a state budget.

 

[Tony Fuckin Abbott]

I've always liked the concept of an eye for an eye, The death sentence should be reserved for murderers and they should have the same fate as the people they killed if not worse

 

[Lachlan Hunter McIntyre]

Dude, people believe in god. Opposing capital punishment is one of the least bonkers beliefs people hold, especially considering all the flaws in the legal system.

And when you consider the numbers, death row inmates aren't remotely clogging up prisons. Shitty laws, particularly ones involving drugs, are what are clogging up prisons. Death row inmates aren't even a line item on a state budget.

Every single person on death row is a detriment. Even if it's only one, that's one space that could be used to help someone who can be helped. Death row should be like a production line. Hell, could build a big room you stick them in and gas them all at once. Tell them it's a shower, pump it full of carbon dioxide. They'll black out before they die, they'll never know it's happening. The concept of being on death row for decades is retarded.

 

[AnOminous]

It is stupid and a waste of taxpayer money to provide housing for a serial killer just so he doesn't get the chair. There should be no life sentence. If you cannot be redeemed, you should be culled. It is unethical to put additional strain on both the economy and human resources just to keep an evil person alive.

The system is vastly inefficient and there would be no way to make it more efficient that did not involve deliberately and knowingly executing a certain percentage of innocent people, or at least people whose crime doesn't merit being killed by the state.

Spending millions to determine whether some random drug dealer who shot another drug dealer should be put away for life or executed is just not an efficient use of money and resources.

It's unethical to waste money just so someone's modern enactment of lex talionis can be satisfied.

Every single person on death row is a detriment. Even if it's only one, that's one space that could be used to help someone who can be helped. Death row should be like a production line. Hell, could build a big room you stick them in and gas them all at once. Tell them it's a shower, pump it full of carbon dioxide. They'll black out before they die, they'll never know it's happening. The concept of being on death row for decades is retarded.

If killing innocent people is so terrible that the only proper punishment is death, then anyone willing to work on death row should be put to death themselves.

 

[Lachlan Hunter McIntyre]

The system is vastly inefficient and there would be no way to make it more efficient that did not involve deliberately and knowingly executing a certain percentage of innocent people, or at least people whose crime doesn't merit being killed by the state.

Spending millions to determine whether some random drug dealer who shot another drug dealer should be put away for life or executed is just not an efficient use of money and resources.

It's unethical to waste money just so someone's modern enactment of lex talionis can be satisfied.



If killing innocent people is so terrible that the only proper punishment is death, then anyone willing to work on death row should be put to death themselves.

Simple. Abolish life sentences. Anyone with a life sentence or something that is functionally a life sentence (like 200 year sentence) should instead be culled. Move the dregs to make way for the people who can be helped. And the 'innocent person wrongly convicted' just speaks to the reforms that're required for the judicial system in America. The abolishment of the death penalty because of 'morality' and muh feels is retarded. They showed no sympathy, so why should we? The families of those killed should be the ones to pull the trigger. Hell, we could make it a sport. Drop them in a cordoned off area with no supplies, and let some people pay to hunt them down like the beasts they are. Would make for great pay-per-view. What's wrong with a little blood sport, anyway?

Should've never gotten rid of barbaric capital punishment. Yeah, it's disgusting. But it worked. Most people wouldn't steal if they knew if they got caught they'd lose a hand. Wouldn't murder if they knew they'd be drawn and quartered. The only ones that'd even try are the ones who don't deserve to be alive anyway.

Burn people at the stake. Have them impaled in the spirit of Vlad of Transylvania. Scare people into not doing shit. And those that still do it? At least we're weeding out the evil people.

 

[AnOminous]

Simple. Abolish life sentences. Anyone with a life sentence or something that is functionally a life sentence (like 200 year sentence) should instead be culled. Move the dregs to make way for the people who can be helped. And the 'innocent person wrongly convicted' just speaks to the reforms that're required for the judicial system in America. The abolishment of the death penalty because of 'morality' and muh feels is retarded. They showed no sympathy, so why should we? The families of those killed should be the ones to pull the trigger. Hell, we could make it a sport. Drop them in a cordoned off area with no supplies, and let some people pay to hunt them down like the beasts they are. Would make for great pay-per-view. What's wrong with a little blood sport, anyway?

Should've never gotten rid of barbaric capital punishment. Yeah, it's disgusting. But it worked. Most people wouldn't steal if they knew if they got caught they'd lose a hand. Wouldn't murder if they knew they'd be drawn and quartered. The only ones that'd even try are the ones who don't deserve to be alive anyway.

Burn people at the stake. Have them impaled in the spirit of Vlad of Transylvania. Scare people into not doing shit. And those that still do it? At least we're weeding out the evil people.

Seriously? A triple post? Use the fucking edit button please.

 

[Vitriol]

Just let them die through starvation and you remove all the ethical issues since you are not actually killing them (they can pay for food with their own money so that ethical issue is not the case either)

This kind of autism is what got you a Shallow Thoughts ban the first time.

I realise you enjoy pushing the limit but your posts are becoming so retardedly and deliberately inflammatory im considering a permanent shallow thoughts ban.

This is your final warning.

 

[Strelok]

This kind of autism is what got you a Shallow Thoughts ban the first time.

I realise you enjoy pushing the limit but your posts are becoming so retardedly and deliberately inflammatory im considering a permanent shallow thoughts ban.

This is your final warning.

Why did you unban him in the first place. This is the guy who tried to use math to prove polyamory was more efficient or something retarded like that.

 

[The Great Chandler]

I remember seeing a John Oliver on this. He claimed that capital punishment is "more expensive than life sentences" and used 'statistics' to back it up. I'm not sure if that's true.

 

[TowinKarz]

I don't doubt it, but that's mostly because death sentences are rarely carried out at this point due to it being a political hot potato and requiring years of legal wrangling to get the final go-ahead. A "condemned" defendant is just as likely to live out their life in prison, and they still have to eat, be guarded and see the doc like everyone else, with the appeals process and cost of administering the actual execution only making it worse.

 

[MMMMMM]

I remember seeing a John Oliver on this. He claimed that capital punishment is "more expensive than life sentences" and used 'statistics' to back it up. I'm not sure if that's true.

This is actually true, it's been known for a while. Basically the consequences of fucking up and executing the wrong guy are pretty severe as you can imagine, so everybody involved has to work more to ensure their work is to the highest standard. You definitely don't want to be the guy who gets blamed for an innocent man on death row. Then there's the cost of death row itself, and the execution chamber etc etc.

Of course, you could cut some corners and make it cheaper, but then you'd be sending more innocent people to death.

The biggest argument against capital punishment IMO is that it's percieved as a solution, it's how you "fix" society. But society improves dramatically when that's taken off the table, because now the money can go to preventing crime instead of chasing after it.