Can God actually "die?"

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skykiii

skykiii

kiwifarms.net
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17 de Jun, 2018
So this is one of those things that comes up a lot in various places.

I'm not referring to the Nietzche quote--he clearly means it in a more philosophical way.

I'm talking about stuff like... the common belief that Satan has (or will eventually) lead armies in a war against heaven.

Or the recurring thing in a lot of JRPGs where the final boss is god and you kill him.

The more I think about it, the more it makes no sense whatsoever.

God created everything... presumably, that includes the afterlife. Which means God can just kinda freely travel between the realms of the living and the realms of what-we-humans-would-call "dead."

I'm honestly hurting my brain just trying to understand this concept.

And this raises other questions as well. Like the whole idea of Satan waging war on Heaven. Why would Satan bother if God is omnipotent and could just will the forces away without even having to move?

In fact, one of my problems with a lot of fiction (including classical mythology) in general is that it tends to treat gods as if they're just people. This is one place where you can see the limits of human creativity in those days--they tended to imagine Gods or whoever working just like a human would. So you get Greek stories of Hades wanting to bang Persephone, or Chinese mythologies saying Heaven is basically just China but the government is now set in golden buildings on clouds and a lot of historical figures live there. Or any of the millions of stories that show the afterlife as being run basically like a corporation.

The problem is, we humans work that way for very easily observable reasons. We want to bang because we have a biological desire to procreate, which is arguably necessary for the propogation of our species. Gods are already immortal so they would have no reason to fuck. But uncreative humans just assume "we fuck, therefore Gods must as well."

And this goes back to the whole "God dying" thing. Again this seems like just uncreative humans assuming that because we can die, that clearly God (or at least a god) can as well. Which maybe in some pantheons is valid. But applied to the Christian God, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Anyway, that's what's on my mind this morning when I'm unable to sleep.
 
HyperboreanRightsActivist dijo:
Your definition of "death" is vague as hell. What does "dying" mean to you?
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This is honestly a good question.

The best definition I can come up with right now is "losing the ability to interact with, or take part in, the reality I currently inhabit." That definition has some holes (ghosts, for example) but hopefully I'll refine it through discussion.
 
As a Christian, no, God cannot die (except, of course, as Jesus Christ did when he died to conquer death). The only victory of Satan’s rebellion is the souls he poisons and the grief he causes God, it’s simply not possible for him to destroy God.

I’m not sure in which JRPG you conquer “God” but that god is conceptually not the same entity as the Christian God. I’m sure you can kill ‘God’ in some conceptualisations, but that certainly isn’t possible when it comes to the Platonic God or Christian God.
 
skykiii dijo:
losing the ability to interact with, or take part in, the reality I currently inhabit
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In this case, no one really dies, especially not the saints, as their prayers can still influence the Earth. God cannot stay dead permanently either (which is to say He conquered death). This is how Christianity treats death: it was too insiginificant of a force to claim authority over the infinite power of God, and as a result, it no longer has any authority over the faithful either.
 
Yes, God can die. Think about it, there are multiple 'Gods' across various religions and beliefs and almost all of them are barely an afterthought in the minds of today's people. The most successful religion is the most powerful one, not necessarily what's actually true. Their beliefs were spread by missionaries though mostly at the point of a sword. To kill a God, ending that belief is how to do it. When the last believer ceases breathing and the survivors of battle forget about that old enemy, that God has no more power over this world. Pretty much how Lionhead's "Black and White" game series works.
 
some cunt dijo:
Yes, God can die. Think about it, there are multiple 'Gods' across various religions and beliefs and almost all of them are barely an afterthought in the minds of today's people. The most successful religion is the most powerful one, not necessarily what's actually true. Their beliefs were spread by missionaries though mostly at the point of a sword. To kill a God, ending that belief is how to do it. When the last believer ceases breathing and the survivors of battle forget about that old enemy, that God has no more power over this world. Pretty much how Lionhead's "Black and White" game series works.
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In all honesty that's another concept from fiction that doesn't quite make sense--that gods are powered by believers and prayer. Especially when the associated mythology also says the gods created mankind. So they're powered by their own creations. That would be like my cat being unable to exist until she had kittens.

To be fair, in video games I understand it as a gameplay mechanic. Gameplay mechanics don't have to make sense logically (nobody questions why Pawns in Chess can't move diagonally except in one specific circumstance, or why the Contra characters seemingly have unlimited ammo, after all). It's more of an issue when its in a novel or something where you're meant to take the concepts more seriously.
 
A god dies when nobody recalls him anymore. Thus any religion ends with its last practicioner.

This has happened to the old gods of Egypt, Rome, Greece, etc.

The current record holder is Hinduism at 4000 years. So we can poo safely knowing that India will be around for future farmers as an eternal content farm.
 
If you are alone in the universe is there a difference between having a godley intellect or being a unconscious rock?
 
If you mean "God" as a metaphor for a super-ego that controls your actions- yes, it can die and it is dying all the time.
Stupid people brake the rules their super-ego dictates and when they see no punishment- they escalate it until they find themselves arrested for drug and fireams possession and child endangerment.
This isn't rocket science. The more you give in, the more you want and you need to police that shit.
 
God would never be able to die by Satan or anything in the world even , Satan got clapped by Michael who mind you was one of the WEAKEST angels and then Michael was promoted to a higher rank.
 
Depends on the mythology. Christian God obviously cannot die, but some Norse gods had been killed, IIRC.
skykiii dijo:
Why would Satan bother if God is omnipotent and could just will the forces away without even having to move?
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Why didn't God just will Satan away? Why did he place the tree of knowledge in such an easily reachable place if he knew that Adam and Eve would try to eat its fruit? Why did he get so mad at them when they did it, if he knew ahead of time they would do it? None of this makes sense, God works in mysterious ways, don't question it.
 
skykiii dijo:
In all honesty that's another concept from fiction that doesn't quite make sense--that gods are powered by believers and prayer. Especially when the associated mythology also says the gods created mankind. So they're powered by their own creations. That would be like my cat being unable to exist until she had kittens.
Presiona para expandir...
Hardline Traditionalist dijo:
Why didn't God just will Satan away? Why did he place the tree of knowledge in such an easily reachable place if he knew that Adam and Eve would try to eat its fruit? Why did he get so mad at them when they did it, if he knew ahead of time they would do it? None of this makes sense, God works in mysterious ways, don't question it.
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this sounds dangerously like heresy, friend. you're not a heretic, are you?

this is roughly how the Bible sketches it out subtextually: since God is perfect, He is also the most valuable thing in existence. therefore, it is Correct and Good that all existence praises God. humans were created to serve as an army of voluntary worshippers to give glory to God. this is why humans were created in such a context that they exist in a constant state of moral peril. the humans that choose God get to hang out with Him eternally, which is the highest possible state of bliss since it is the purpose humans were expressly created for. the ones that rebel against God get to hang out with The Satan in the lake of fire forever, which also gives glory to God (i.e. perverts who rebel against the Cosmic Good get fucking owned).

God does not need believers or prayer to do anything. God can do whatever the fuck He wants, whenever He wants. prayers are merely pleasing to Him. believers are just a Correct expansion of the cosmic order. God's nature might be such that He is compelled to create things like this.

it's important to remember when considering things like this that God is not human. things like selfishness or conceit do not apply to God; if God believes He is better than everything else in existence, He's merely being objectively correct. since He is also perfect and incorruptible, it's also not possible for Him to be an unjust asshole. if you don't like how God has things laid out, it is in fact you who is wrong.
 
skykiii dijo:
This is honestly a good question.

The best definition I can come up with right now is "losing the ability to interact with, or take part in, the reality I currently inhabit." That definition has some holes (ghosts, for example) but hopefully I'll refine it through discussion.
Presiona para expandir...
Your OP was a bit lame, how about we ponder something genuinely mind boggling such as this:

Can God create a rock so heavy that even He cannot lift it?
 
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