Business Buy Now, Pay Later Keeps People Spending—Without Credit Agencies Knowing - And several anecdotes from people with impulse spending issues

Buy Now, Pay Later Keeps People Spending—Without Credit Agencies Knowing
S - https://www.wsj.com/personal-finance/credit/buy-now-pay-later-industry-watchdog-groups-beed96c8
A - https://archive.is/Rtno0

Priscilla Rodriguez, an overnight stocker at a Walmart, has a strategy to protect her credit score as she and her husband look to buy a house.

The Sunland Park, N.M., resident uses installment loans from Afterpay to buy groceries, her pricey skin-care products and art supplies for her 10-year-old son, which keeps the balance on her two credit cards low—and the credit agencies in the dark.

“Afterpay doesn’t report to Equifax,” Rodriguez, 31, said. “That was very appealing to me.”

Consumers are shifting more of their spending to so-called buy now, pay later lenders, a trend that is only accelerating as high interest rates dent budgets and pandemic savings dry up. That is sounding alarms at consumer-advocacy groups that say companies like Afterpay, Affirm and Klarna provide fewer protections than credit cards and encourage shoppers to take on more debt than they can afford.

A quarter of all American adult consumers have used buy now, pay later loans, according to LexisNexis Risk Solutions. Over Black Friday and Cyber Week, such payment plans accounted for 7.2% of all online sales, a 25% jump from last year, Adobe found. (They were also a big factor in the declining use of store credit cards.)

Buy now, pay-later firms can extend loans as large as $25,000, offering annual interest rates ranging from 0% to 36%. The rates offered are dynamic and depend on the borrower’s standing, payment timeline and the item being purchased. Retailers can also pay fees to offer better terms, such as 0% interest, at checkouts. In comparison, the average annual interest rate on credit cards is 21.19%, according to the Federal Reserve.

What started as a payment option mostly for luxuries like beauty products and purses is rapidly expanding to other categories, including groceries and medical procedures. Shoppers’ use of these payment plans for “necessary” and “everyday” purchases expanded 434% from 2020 to 2021, according to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

Paden Brown, a truck driver from Texas, uses Affirm to buy groceries and household essentials on slow driving weeks when his pay is low. A recent bill at Walmart was roughly $465, and Affirm offered him a choice of three payment plans. He chose a six-month loan with a 36% interest rate that didn’t require a down payment.

He has also used the service to buy nearly $4,000 of gaming equipment and $1,100 in tickets to WrestleMania events, both on interest-free payment plans with longer timelines.

Brown, 35, said his father damaged his credit score when he was younger by taking out cards in his name. Though he has built it back up, he is still wary of credit cards.

“The difference between this and a credit card is that Affirm won’t threaten to garnish your wages,” Brown said. “They’ll just say, ‘We’re not doing business with you anymore.’ ”

Stigma around credit cards has driven people away from them, even though they are better regulated and come with fraud protections and other perks, said Peter Smith, senior researcher at the Center for Responsible Lending, a consumer-advocacy group.

His group and others are calling on regulators to develop a framework to oversee the buy now, pay later industry. “We see this as the Wild West right now,” he said.

Roughly a year ago, CFPB director Rohit Chopra said his agency intends to regulate the industry the same way it regulates credit cards, noting, “It’s critical that this growing category does not hide in the shadows.” Putting that into practice has been slow-going, though Affirm has said it is subject to CFPB supervision and supports the agency’s efforts.

Kristina Koltyk, 38, uses credit cards only for essentials such as groceries and gas, which keeps her credit score high. For most everything else, the postal-service worker uses installment loans from Affirm.

Koltyk, who lives in Garden City, Mich., has taken out over $30,000 in loans since 2021 to buy items including car parts for her boyfriend’s Dodge Challenger, a Samsung 55-inch television and Nike Air Force 1s.

“Affirm is cool because it doesn’t mess with your credit score at all,” she said.

Most buy now, pay later companies say they conduct a “soft” credit-check primarily to help determine the interest rates offered. These checks are designed to not affect a borrower’s credit score, unlike the “hard” credit checks typically required for credit cards and mortgages.

That leaves lenders with an incomplete picture of the debts people are carrying when approving them for new credit. It also means shoppers can take out loans at multiple buy now, pay later companies, and each wouldn’t know about the other.

Affirm said the company is motivated to extend credit only to consumers who can pay on time because it doesn’t charge late fees.

While the three major credit reporting bureaus, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion, gave buy now, pay later companies the option last year to report payment-plan activity, the majority aren’t yet doing so. Affirm said it reports some longer-term loans to Experian and might report to others in the future. Afterpay—which is owned by Jack Dorsey’s payments company, Block—doesn’t report to U.S. credit bureaus. Neither does Sweden-based Klarna.

Afterpay and Klarna have argued that reporting to U.S. credit bureaus would hurt their customers even when they are making payments on time.

Kerry McKinley, 27, used Afterpay to buy $500 of clothes from Fashion Nova, an online-only retailer. Her payment plan carried no interest and she paid it off using her credit card.

In the following months, McKinley, who lives in Hercules, Calif., had car troubles and an emergency visit to the veterinarian’s office after her dog rifled through the trash. Her rainy-day fund was depleted, and she incurred late fees on her credit card.

McKinley regretted the Afterpay purchase for setting her back. “It’s just an easier way for big companies to convince you to spend money you don’t have,” she said.

Gabriel Racela of Vancouver, British Columbia, in Canada, uses buy now, pay later options as a litmus test. If a purchase qualifies for an interest-free loan, the 27-year-old gaming company project manager will spend the money, which was the case for a recent $4,300 laser eye surgery. Otherwise, he will pass.

But he does make exceptions. He and his sister recently bought two sectional sofas for around $2,700 using a one-year loan with a 17% interest rate.
 
Tens of thousands in debt that is not being factored into mortgage calculations?

What could go wrong!

Oh it is not fraud at all to lie about your financial situation to a mortgage company...Man this Sunday is making me so angry.
Stigma around credit cards has driven people away from them, even though they are better regulated and come with fraud protections and other perks, said Peter Smith, senior researcher at the Center for Responsible Lending, a consumer-advocacy group.
Kind of seems like Pete is a credit card advocate.

Pete is a fucking scumbag.
 
It became a big stink here in Texas the past few years when bars started using Afterpay. So you could go to the bar, spend all your money then the bar will use Afterpay to give you another $45 in drinks. The Afterpay service charges no interest but if you don't pay back the money after like 14 days or something the overdue fee is $10. Which is what makes the business model work. You can only do like $100 at a time in Afterpay so its minimal amounts overall, but you can see how the service would print money.
 
I like how all the testimonials are of people buying dumb shit they probably shouldn't be buying considering the state of the economy. These agencies know exactly who their clientele is and how irresponsible their spending habits are. It's scummy but it's hard to be upset when the people taking advantage of it have this much of a lack of fiscal responsibility. $4000 of "gaming equipment"? $500 of designer clothes? $30,000 of Challenger parts and Nikes? Nigger, tighten the fucking belt!
 
This is like regular Jewing, but with multiple layers.

Also:

Priscilla Rodriguez, an overnight stocker at a Walmart, has a strategy to protect her credit score as she and her husband look to buy a house.

The Sunland Park, N.M., resident uses installment loans from Afterpay to buy groceries, her pricey skin-care products and art supplies for her 10-year-old son, which keeps the balance on her two credit cards low—and the credit agencies in the dark.

:story: "If they don't see my awful spending habits we will certainly save up for a mortgage down payment and have no issues later on whatsoever!"
 
McKinley regretted the Afterpay purchase for setting her back.
>For Setting Her Back

These people have votes that count for the same as mine, and that feels wrong somehow. How completely ignorant do you have to be to look at this and think the business is the problem. Are they offering you a potentially useful service hoping to monetize the people who fuck up with it? Absolutely. But its also blatantly obvious that's what it is, and yet you still use it to excess for stupid fucking reasons. Especially when you take an 'interest free' payment setup and then pay it down with a credit card anyways, transcendently smoothbrained.

Afterpay didn't set shit back, for any of these people - The logic that made them reason that they needed $500 of fast fashion right now when they evidently did not have $500 to spend is what set them back. These services and their users should be rightfully mocked for being enablers and retards respectively, but its not even true that these companies are making money off the financial irresponsibility of their customers. Only a fraction of their revenues come from the late payments, most of their money comes from taking a cut from retailers, and selling user data. Stores that use Afterpay basically sell at a discount and the loan retailer pockets the difference, because this shit coaxes people into purchases they might otherwise not make, presumably leading to a net increase in sales.

Even then, I'm pretty sure these companies lose money and make up the difference burning investor capital, so really what we're seeing is dumbfuck silicon valley investors subsidizing dumbfucks inflated spending habits. Truly the circle of Techbro's brings nothing but wealth unto the world.
 
This is effectively a shadow banking system…which is fine to have but regardless people deploying the use of a shadow system typically pay higher rates - whether stated or not - through the use of such a system.

It’s fine to use if you want to pay more; but if you are rejected or restricted for credit there is usually just cause in the regular system.

But the increased us if such a system is always indicative of stress in the real market; and it means the real market is under more stress than what is being reported.

All it will take is a little recession and these shadow companies will be left holding a lot of debt - regardless of how much gouging interest they have been able to collect.

With retailers often absorbing the cost of these services by masking it through higher up front purchase cost; they are also artificially inflating consumer prices which makes the Feds job just a little more difficult.
 
Paden Brown, a truck driver from Texas, uses Affirm to buy groceries and household essentials on slow driving weeks when his pay is low. A recent bill at Walmart was roughly $465, and Affirm offered him a choice of three payment plans. He chose a six-month loan with a 36% interest rate that didn’t require a down payment.
lol imagine making pay installments on food
 
A recent bill at Walmart was roughly $465, and Affirm offered him a choice of three payment plans. He chose a six-month loan with a 36% interest rate that didn’t require a down payment.
thirty six fucking percent man. holy shit. for just a "slow week"?! I just can't imagine the mindset. Like, yeah, living paycheck to paycheck sucks, and having a high credit utilization isn't great either, but even if you make the purchase just before your billing cycle ends you have an entire month to pay it interest free (and usually a grace period for a slightly missed payment with a fee much lower than 36% interest)... man!
 
I've held the viewpoint for a while that this shit is going to contribute to a fuckup that will rival the mortgage crisis. Too many gullible people are just clicking on this shit and promising away money they probably won't be able to afford later any more than they can afford now, and if it comes time to choose down the line between keeping their iPhone they used Affirm to buy or paying a mortgage payment they'll choose to keep the immediate comfort. A lot of times these places are also charging more for the item than would otherwise be paid up front, so people don't even realize they are setting themselves up to pay more over time unless they do the math themselves and make sure the totals add up.

Notice how commonplace these "buy now pay later" things became once the economy started going tits up? It's a two way parasitic benefit - the big players of the system get to keep the spending going so they can keep the economy from completely sinking with their fortunes and the smaller firms get to bilk unwary people who are financially hurting - but it can't last forever.
 
thirty six fucking percent man. holy shit. for just a "slow week"?! I just can't imagine the mindset. Like, yeah, living paycheck to paycheck sucks, and having a high credit utilization isn't great either, but even if you make the purchase just before your billing cycle ends you have an entire month to pay it interest free (and usually a grace period for a slightly missed payment with a fee much lower than 36% interest)... man!
i don't even think student credit cards fuck you as hard as affirm does

"BankAmericard® Credit Card for Students. 0% Intro APR † for 18 billing cycles for purchases, and for any balance transfers made in the first 60 days of opening your account. After the intro APR offer ends, a Variable APR that's currently 16.24% - 26.24% will apply."
 
I've held the viewpoint for a while that this shit is going to contribute to a fuckup that will rival the mortgage crisis. Too many gullible people are just clicking on this shit and promising away money they probably won't be able to afford later any more than they can afford now, and if it comes time to choose down the line between keeping their iPhone they used Affirm to buy or paying a mortgage payment they'll choose to keep the immediate comfort. A lot of times these places are also charging more for the item than would otherwise be paid up front, so people don't even realize they are setting themselves up to pay more over time unless they do the math themselves and make sure the totals add up.

Notice how commonplace these "buy now pay later" things became once the economy started going tits up? It's a two way parasitic benefit - the big players of the system get to keep the spending going so they can keep the economy from completely sinking with their fortunes and the smaller firms get to bilk unwary people who are financially hurting - but it can't last forever.
I can see the movers and shakers moving to pull out the rug if Biden loses the election so they can pin the economic collapse on Trump.
 
I can see the movers and shakers moving to pull out the rug if Biden loses the election so they can pin the economic collapse on Trump.
It's feasible but even they have to know how dangerous that is. Too big of a collapse and instead of Orange "Hitler" you get actual Hitler 2.0, there's a natural alignment of survival interests when someone not only promises food after starvation but also revenge against those who starved you.
 
Paden Brown, a truck driver from Texas, uses Affirm to buy groceries and household essentials on slow driving weeks when his pay is low. A recent bill at Walmart was roughly $465, and Affirm offered him a choice of three payment plans. He chose a six-month loan with a 36% interest rate that didn’t require a down payment.

He has also used the service to buy nearly $4,000 of gaming equipment and $1,100 in tickets to WrestleMania events, both on interest-free payment plans with longer timelines.
lol. Lmao even.

I know I’m late on the first quote, it was missing the second part - but he basically did the payday advance thing for groceries and also…. Signed up for god knows what kind of fees for missing payments on $5k of entertainment.
 
It's feasible but even they have to know how dangerous that is. Too big of a collapse and instead of Orange "Hitler" you get actual Hitler 2.0, there's a natural alignment of survival interests when someone not only promises food after starvation but also revenge against those who starved you.
The competence crises is hitting all levels of society.
 
Speaking of poor people being dumb.

Was just playing BF2042. 75 iq squad mate had a hot mic the entire match. Got to hear him talk to I assume his girlfriend about why it wasnt a good idea for her to buy two pairs of boots when their cc is maxxed out and the internet bill hasnt been paid in months and is about to be disconnected.
 
Speaking of poor people being dumb.

Was just playing BF2042. 75 iq squad mate had a hot mic the entire match. Got to hear him talk to I assume his girlfriend about why it wasnt a good idea for her to buy two pairs of boots when their cc is maxxed out and the internet bill hasnt been paid in months and is about to be disconnected.
almost as entertaining as when niggers/beaners blast music into their microphones too
 
Speaking of poor people being dumb.

Was just playing BF2042. 75 iq squad mate had a hot mic the entire match. Got to hear him talk to I assume his girlfriend about why it wasnt a good idea for her to buy two pairs of boots when their cc is maxxed out and the internet bill hasnt been paid in months and is about to be disconnected.
I always find poor people spending on clothes to be a fascinating trend. I've never been a particularly fashionable guy so I'm sure I'm missing some aspect of the whole deal, but I really don't see why you'd want to spend hundreds of dollars on clothes when you're literally broke and already have a wardrobe full of them. It'd be one thing if you just wore out the heel of your last pair of shoes and needed to buy some new ones, its another when I see people rolling paycheck to paycheck and adding new collectors shoes to their closet, all on credit.

I get there's some social dynamics around pretending to be better off than you really are by presenting with brand clothes, combined with the psychology of them being 'on sale' to just tuck into the feasible part, but how long can you fake wealth, and why would you even want to bother? Anything where that wealth is actually relevant such as finances or relationships is immediately going to reveal the truth of the matter, and anything where its transient enough as to not matter is just wasting money to impress random fucking people who don't matter, isn't it?
 
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