Butter, Lard, and Beef Tallow - And when to use them

[NoReturn]

I've been really tempted towards a anti seed oil thread broadly but it kind of intersects with this for alternatives, god I hate the discourse right now (since RFK hates them you're a chud if you hate them too!!!)

Infuriating shit. Eating food should not be fucking political.

But why seed oils in particular?

My understanding is that it isn't that they're necessarily bad, but that the process of making them pushes the oils past their smoke point, robbing them of most of their nutritional value and adding a burned flavor before you even put it in your food.

Easiest "elevator answer" is that you have negative health consequences if you fuck up the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids in your diet, and the foods currently available to us push us towards more omega-6s by default, so if you avoid seed oils, they can try to keep that ratio closer to where it should be.



See also:

• Effect of conjugated linoleic acid on body composition in mice
• Replacement of saturated fatty acids with linoleic acid in western diet attenuates atherosclerosis in a mouse model with inducible ablation of hepatic LDL receptor
• The importance of the ratio of omega-6/omega-3 essential fatty acids
• The omega-6/omega-3 fatty acid ratio: health implications
• The Importance of Maintaining a Low Omega-6/Omega-3 Ratio for Reducing the Risk of Autoimmune Diseases, Asthma, and Allergies

 

[werbwub]

After hearing arguments for and against seed oils, I would try to avoid them. Even assuming seed oils are good for you, you should still avoid them since junk slop that you should avoid eating almost certainly has them. Go to your local store and look at the ingredients list of any junk food, 95% chance there is going to be seed oils.

 

[AnOminous]

After hearing arguments for and against seed oils, I would try to avoid them. Even assuming seed oils are good for you, you should still avoid them since junk slop that you should avoid eating almost certainly has them. Go to your local store and look at the ingredients list of any junk food, 95% chance there is going to be seed oils.

I'm never going to avoid sesame oil, peanut oil, or grapeseed oil. That's almost vegan levels of avoiding shit there's nothing wrong with.

I'll agree canola/rapeseed oil is absolute garbage, basically industrial waste. Never use that shit.

Just treating anything from a seed as ontologically evil is bullshit, though.

 

[WilliamDeLaPole]

This thread has turned into a health debate, but I suppose that was inevitable!

Personal anecdote, but I noticed an extreme positive change in overall health when I switched to eating more meat fats than plant fats. Could just be the fact that my overall diet changed, but I can understand why people get spastic about seed oils. It doesn't help that ingredients lists are full of totally unnecessary shit in things that aren't even considered junk food. Even something like pork rinds. Why make pork rinds fried in anything other than lard? Yet so many brands use seed oils instead. It doesn't make sense, regardless if all seed oils are safe or not.

 

[AnOminous]

Personal anecdote, but I noticed an extreme positive change in overall health when I switched to eating more meat fats than plant fats.

Meat fats generally contribute way more flavor, mouthfeel, and just general satisfaction, so you need to use less of them. Even the more neutral meat fats like leaf lard just generally bring a "meatier" flavor. They may be highly saturated fats, but unless you go nuts with them, you just don't need much of them to spruce up a dish.

And with seed oils you really need to consider what specific oil it is. Canola is crap. Corn oil is crap. Soybean oil is crap. Cottonseed oil is crap. A lot of seed oils are in fact really fucking awful.

Sesame isn't, though. Of course, you generally add sesame oil at the end of cooking for flavor, and a lot of the problem with seed oils is they generate toxic shit at high temperatures, that is, when deep frying in them. That and the processing of the cheap ones like the ones I listed (and others similarly processed) turns them toxic.

Even the "bad" oils are only often bad because of how they're processed. The raw version of the same oils could be fine.

Too bad we can't just fry everything in duck fat, because we'd run out of ducks too fast.

 

[NoReturn]

I'm never going to avoid sesame oil,

Seasoning

peanut oil,

Seasoning

or grapeseed oil.

Salad dressing

Just treating anything from a seed as ontologically evil is bullshit, though.

Yep

This thread has turned into a health debate, but I suppose that was inevitable!

Personal anecdote, but I noticed an extreme positive change in overall health when I switched to eating more meat fats than plant fats. Could just be the fact that my overall diet changed, but I can understand why people get spastic about seed oils. It doesn't help that ingredients lists are full of totally unnecessary shit in things that aren't even considered junk food. Even something like pork rinds. Why make pork rinds fried in anything other than lard? Yet so many brands use seed oils instead. It doesn't make sense, regardless if all seed oils are safe or not.

It's all about the ratio.
If you eat way too many omega-6-heavy foods, and not enough omega-3-heavy foods, that ratio in your diet is gonna get messed up and you're gonna get sick.

 

[AnOminous]

Seasoning

Sesame oil maybe.

Seasoning

Salad dressing

Grapeseed is an excellent deep frying oil because of its very high smoke point and neutral flavor, but pricy. Peanut oil is somewhat cheaper but also has a reasonable smoke point if you're not doing something like trying to flash fry at a very high temperature. It also has a neutral flavor, so I'm not exactly sure how it's a "seasoning." It just tastes like oil.

If you want high smoke point and really, really want to avoid seed oils, there's also avocado oil but it's absurdly expensive.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Did a test with popcorn for fun:

Try ghee and duck fat. The former ends up basically pre-buttered, while the latter has a rich taste that I can't really describe. It's good with a little salt and pepper.

edit: for the record, I didn't mean at the same time. That would be weird. Although, I now want to try it just to see what would happen...

 

[Maori Kiwifruit Growers]

Try ghee and duck fat. The former ends up basically pre-buttered, while the latter has a rich taste that I can't really describe. It's good with a little salt and pepper.

sir your arteries called. They're begging you to stop.

 

[teriyakiburns]

sir your arteries called. They're begging you to stop.

I'll stop when they apologise.

 

[NoReturn]

sir your arteries called. They're begging you to stop.

It's not dietary cholesterol's fault your circulatory system is unhappy.

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

Sesame oil maybe.

Grapeseed is an excellent deep frying oil because of its very high smoke point and neutral flavor, but pricy.

Heh - my primary use for grapeseed oil is to season my cast iron and carbon steel cookware. Just wipe a very thin layer on a freshly stripped pan and toss it in the oven at 450F for a couple of hours. It polymerizes into what is basically natural Teflon. I admit that the smell is not awesome.

As for animal fats, butter all the way, though I keep bacon fat, duck fat and lard around for very specific purposes.

 

[AnOminous]

As for animal fats, butter all the way, though I keep bacon fat, duck fat and lard around for very specific purposes.

My main use for lard is biscuits. Nothing else really does the trick. Butter is okay, but doesn't beat lard. I also like lard for dumplings, but they're nearly identical as dough.

 

[Oh Darn]

60/40 combo lard and butter for pie crusts is my favorite. Structurally sound while still light and flaky. Pure butter pie crusts are are super finnicky and infuriating to work with. Lard crust at least tolerates being worked with better and has better elasticity, but the butter flavor is better than a pure lard crust. Might try a tallow crust soon since it’s what I have on hand, in which case I’ll report back.

Threw out all my seed oils a couple years ago and exclusively use tallow, olive oil, butter, coconut oil, and lard these days. Definitely feel like my metabolism has improved as a result.

 

[WilliamDeLaPole]

too many omega-6-heavy foods

Funnily enough, I mostly ate white meat and fish before, but now I exclusively eat ruminants when it comes to meat. From my brief stint researching the carnivore diet, the double stomachs and grass diet is what creates a healthier omega 6 to 3 ratio. It's weird to think white meat was also part of my health problem, but every doctor I've had suggested avoiding red meat at all costs and eating more plant fats.

use for grapeseed oil is to season my cast iron and carbon steel cookware

Yeah but have you tried seasoning your cutting board instead?

 

[AnOminous]

Yeah but have you tried seasoning your cutting board instead?

Calm down Adam.

 

[chromiclarpwr]

I always use butter in my cooking, never bothered with anything else really

 

[Joe Shmoe]

Hey guys so I just recently made some demiglace, it's in the fridge rn and as you know there is a layer of fat on the top. What you're supposed to do with it is to scrape it off but I was wondering if it might be good to be used for something? Like as a butter replacement. Adam Ragusea said that this fat tastes horrible and you should throw it out but he is a trannyloving soycuck so I don't really trust him on this

 

[WhatInTheActualFuck]

Hey guys so I just recently made some demiglace, it's in the fridge rn and as you know there is a layer of fat on the top. What you're supposed to do with it is to scrape it off but I was wondering if it might be good to be used for something? Like as a butter replacement. Adam Ragusea said that this fat tastes horrible and you should throw it out but he is a trannyloving soycuck so I don't really trust him on this

Save that shit. Use it to add flavor to anything you fry.

Demiglace is also best stored by freezing it into ice cubes and transferring those into a freezer bag. Anything that needs a serious hit of beefy flavor gets a demiglace cube or two melted in.

 

[WilliamDeLaPole]

Try ghee and duck fat

I hate ghee, but I finally found some duck fat. First tried a little taste test at room temperature, then refrigerated, and I'm shocked it didn't make me want to gag. I think this is the only rendered fat I can stand eating raw besides lard.

You said it's a rich flavor, but it tastes very mild to me. Popcorn had no notable difference in taste. It's like a weaker version of chicken fat.

$15 for 11 oz and you have to refrigerate it for such a mild flavor? Not sure what the hype has been in this thread lol. Maybe I just have toddler taste buds.

I will say, the hunt for this has been amusing. Asking grocery store clerks if they have duck fat and always getting the same "I didn't even know that existed" response was funny. The places that did regularly stock duck fat had it in spray cans for some reason. One place had it in a jar, but only with rosemary added.

Tomorrow I'm going to try to make some potatoes with it, then wanna try frying some meat and making flatbread. Might be better with something besides popcorn. Other suggestions welcome.