Brianna Wu / John Flynt - Original Thread

[ZehnBoat]

here's the thing these morons don't get about sexism in games
yes, there is sexism in games
no, playing games don't make you sexist
if you're already sexist, then you'll enjoy sexism in games, just like if you're violent, you will enjoy (too much) violence in games.

but here's the catch
that sexism stems from society, multiple societies (anita sarkessian thinks american and japanese society are one and the same)
the way to get rid of sexism from games requires you to pull sexism from the roots, you need to get rid of it from movies, comics, etc.

but there's another catch
sometimes sexism is used for humor, or to show a person is bad
and in the end to remove all sexism and every other way of being "problematic", you'll end up with bland villains.
remember when tumblr cried over the fact that the villain in far cry 4 was RACIST? how dare a villain be villainous!
yeah, these people just want games where you walk from A to B, and the antagonist goes "I'm sorry, i now see you're right mighty trans-woman-poc-kin. here's the ending of the game"

also anita sarkessian needs to see a psychologist on her harming women fetish

 

[Peace and Harmony]

There was an image macro from /b/ that I saw a long time ago and I regret never saving, where it listed dozens of various combinations of genders and plotlines and how an SJW will always find some way to get offended by any of them.

There's basically no way to win. If a game has mostly dudes, it's sexism. If a game has an ass-kicking female protag, it's male power fantasy. If a game has a male villain, it's exclusionist. If a game has a female villain, it's misogyny. If there are female supporting characters, it's tokenism. If there aren't any, then it's sexism again. Male-female romance is heteronormative. Male-male romance is anti-feminist. Female-female romance is male sexual wish fulfillment. So on and so on. You just can't take these people seriously at all because they're immune to any kind of reason. Much like OPL, the only thing that works is the warped reality created in their own minds that the rest of the universe should kowtow to.

 

[Andy27]

2. Me soggy knees and totally not a biased source
[MEDIA=twitter]589182789469220864[/MEDIA]

I don't really see anything counting as "harassment" presented in that marysue article. So Wu is talking out of her arse again.

And MarySue doesn't seem to understand the difference between "censorship" and "asking questions"

 

[Slowboat to China]

Spoiler: Sperging about character development

Wu's complete boneheaded ignorance of everything related to storytelling (games or otherwise) is giving me a headache.

There is no such thing as a Strong Female Character, any more more than there is a Strong Male Character. Half the problem is slapping a gender label on it, because that risks limiting your expectations for the character. There's just characters, strong or weak. And Wu's cast of Bratzassins is one of the weakest lineups I've seen in a long time.

A strong character is one that grows and develops--strong not necessarily in the physical or even mental sense, but strong as in strongly resembling a real personality. Holiday and company are Strong Female Characters in the shallowest of shallow ways. They're snarky, aggressive, and unemotional, as if the creator went down a checklist of Joss Whedon traits. I have no idea why any of them joined Chessboard, what motivates them, whether they have family, what they do for fun, anything. Just hollow posturing by empty shells.

TL;DR: Go take a writing class, Wu, and read something besides retweets. Anything. Please.

"Manspreading" is ridiculous. I've never seen a dude with spread legs purposely taking up a ton of space; usually if they're sitting like that, there's room to actually do it. An acquaintance of mine posted a pic of a stranger on a train at rush hour, complaining how he was manspreading into empty seats on either side of him when there was no room elsewhere for anyone to sit. My reaction was "Then go ask him to budge up so you can sit down, idiot." They'll do it! If you want to talk about space infringement on public transportation, I've had my personal bubble encroached on by hugely overweight weird-smelling people way more than dudes with spread legs.

Also, re the male privilege tweet: Brianna doesn't seem to realize that she's doing exactly the same thing, weighing in (loudly) on a ton of stuff she has no expertise in. Irony!

 

[Positron]

An acquaintance of mine posted a pic of a stranger on a train at rush hour, complaining how he was manspreading into empty seats on either side of him when there was no room elsewhere for anyone to sit. My reaction was "Then go ask him to budge up so you can sit down, idiot." They'll do it!

Make sure that is really a man before you attempt it. If that person is a genderfluid hambeast you'll be guilty of fatshaming.

 

[AnOminous]

"Sexism in 2015 is more subtle and insidious. . ."

If by "subtle" Wu means "undetectable by objective measurements," it's basically rejecting facts for feels again. If it can't be detected, it isn't there.

Funny, since I doubt Wu has any problem mocking right wingers who reject climate science, but engages in exactly the same kind of pseudo-logical magical thinking.

"Manspreading" is ridiculous.

No shit. We should be snapping photos of fat people in subways and shaming them for "Fatspreading."

Not really, that would be a really shitty thing to do, but so is this "manspreading" shit.

 

[MayMay]

Spoiler: Sperging about character development

Wu's complete boneheaded ignorance of everything related to storytelling (games or otherwise) is giving me a headache.

There is no such thing as a Strong Female Character, any more more than there is a Strong Male Character. Half the problem is slapping a gender label on it, because that risks limiting your expectations for the character. There's just characters, strong or weak. And Wu's cast of Bratzassins is one of the weakest lineups I've seen in a long time.

A strong character is one that grows and develops--strong not necessarily in the physical or even mental sense, but strong as in strongly resembling a real personality. Holiday and company are Strong Female Characters in the shallowest of shallow ways. They're snarky, aggressive, and unemotional, as if the creator went down a checklist of Joss Whedon traits. I have no idea why any of them joined Chessboard, what motivates them, whether they have family, what they do for fun, anything. Just hollow posturing by empty shells.

TL;DR: Go take a writing class, Wu, and read something besides retweets. Anything. Please.

Spoiler

Even if development isn't really in the question (think purely episodic format and such) you could still get a similar "strength" by, y'know, making them interesting or say, enjoyable to be around and maybe actually writing them as people instead of some smudged flowchart of what makes a "strong female character"

Also a thing about "manspreading". People slouch a lot on public transport, probably because they're bored as shit.
Guess what happens when you slouch? Your legs spread since the body is practically idle compared to sitting up straight.

This isn't even a male psychology issue in that regard, it's basic human behaviour applicable to both sexes. If this "manspreading" proves anything it's just that guys slouch more. The horror.

 

[NegaCWC]

5. Wu posted her thoughts about a recent study about how modern video games don't cause sexism. Posted here in quotes and my favorite parts in bold.

[MEDIA=twitter]589213092623552513[/MEDIA]
And here's the article: http://venturebeat.com/2015/04/14/g...searcher-finds-but-one-critic-is-unconvinced/

All this hypocrisy triggers me. Whenever someone disagrees with Brianna regarding technology related issues, she accuses them of mansplaining and says she's a "software engineer" (even though she has no formal training in STEM) so her opinions trumps the opinions of laymen. I would expect her to apply the same standards when issues relating to social sicences are discussed and defer to the conclusions of the authors of this study, all of whom are more qualified to speak on this matter than Brianna.

 

[ZehnBoat]

i think people who bitch about manspreading should have to wear fake testicles that give you a shock if you squeeze them too hard, and make you uncomfortable if you let them get into a strange position.

 

[MiloWuCollusion]

This really reminds me of when I went to a sci-fi con last year. There was a Sailor Moon panel and it was VERY evident that the speaker had no idea what she was talking about. She had a VERY basic knowledge of the first season and was trying to make it about feminism, but completely fell flat. Even the little kids knew she was full of crap and wasn't a real fan. Someone asked her if she was going to watch Crystal and she said that if there weren't too many episodes. -- Crystal had just been announced... Pretty much after that everyone left because there was no point.

.

Sounds like Dashcon in panel form.

I can see Wu doing panels like that and thinks she's doing well, when actually everyone is just tolerating her because they were required to go, or just out of sheer politeness or awkwardness.

Some people seems to still believe in her, Patrick Klepek even dared to writte "mansplaining" as a serious term

 

[tepid]

When will the sexism in gaming end

 

[CWCissey]

When will the sexism in gaming end

I'm working on a mod for realistic ball physics as well as for drainpipes and spandex.

 

[Dr. Boe Jangles Esq.]

When will the sexism in gaming end

I will back the fuck outta this on Greenlight.
The funny part is? It could actually be better than anything Wu will ever make. Strategic seat selection, mansplaining minigames, defending your posture from triggered idiots... And gameplay is interactive, instead of a series of quick time events.

 

[ChuckSlaughter]

I will back the fuck outta this on Greenlight.
The funny part is? It could actually be better than anything Wu will ever make. Strategic seat selection, mansplaining minigames, defending your posture from triggered idiots... And gameplay is interactive, instead of a series of quick time events.

This shit would be great, if you made it right it could be a good simple touch scren game too.... one where you don't actually kill things. Just use the sight of your cloth covered package to oppress the hell out of w boryn womyn and trynswomyn with various sized hands and hair colors.

 

[MayMay]

This shit would be great, if you made it right it could be a good simple touch scren game too.... one where you don't actually kill things. Just use the sight of your cloth covered package to oppress the hell out of w boryn womyn and trynswomyn with various sized hands and hair colors.

Make it a mobile game so you can play it while manspreading IRL!

 

[Pickle Inspector]

When will the sexism in gaming end

"My body, my rules!"

 

[Ruin]

Thing is I see way more women than men taking up seats by putting their bag's/purses there, and then refusing to move them forcing others to stand.

 

[Sarcastic Username]

Sorry. I considered the fact both him and his wife are insufferable cunts and assumed the worst. We should look into him more. I saw some stuff earlier that he might be a domestic abuser. Does anyone know if that was a hoax? Anyone that's willing to live with her is certainly not right in the head.

It's entirely he-said / she-said. Both parties in Frank's former marriage accuse the other of being a monster, which isn't all that unusual in divorces, especially among kids that got married young.

 

[Coldgrip]

This isn't even a male psychology issue in that regard, it's basic human behaviour applicable to both sexes. If this "manspreading" proves anything it's just that guys slouch more. The horror.

Which if you explain this to them you'd be accused of mansplaining and using scientifically approved misogyny (because to many people like Wu science is misogynistic because there were/are white guys in it).

I wonder how if Wu honestly believes that manspreading is a legit threat to her or if she's just doing this for attention.

 

[wheat pasta]

"Sexism in 2015 is more subtle and insidious. . ."

If by "subtle" Wu means "undetectable by objective measurements," it's basically rejecting facts for feels again. If it can't be detected, it isn't there.

Funny, since I doubt Wu has any problem mocking right wingers who reject climate science, but engages in exactly the same kind of pseudo-logical magical thinking.

Subtle?!? Insidious?? She's actually really fucking transparent. Her sexism isn't subtle at all.