Black Widow

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Rotten Tomatoes has Black Widow at 80%, placing it in the lower half of the MCU in terms of quality and below most films featuring heartthrob Jeremy Renner's Hawkeye.

Ant-Man and the Wasp - 87%
Black Widow - 80%
Captain Marble - 79%
 
This movie was already in an unenviable position being the first movie in Phase 4, particularly following Endgame which gave off the impression that it was the capstone to this decade long plan (looking at the individual films show that it was a much looser process than the people who make prediction videos would want to believe). And her death in Endgame made this project seem like an anticlimactic afterthought. And being delayed for a year hasn’t done it any favors. The streaming shows have been generally well received, but haven’t generated nearly the amount of hype that The Mandalorian did. And if they couldn’t get that kind of heat with Loki, what hope do they have that She-Hulk will fare better?
 
Product Placement dijo:
This has the same plot as Captain America: The Winter Soldier
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I actually thought it was closer to Ant-Man and the Wasp for a couple reasons I'll get into below.

TL;DR - I thought it was "fine." I wouldn't call it good, but it's not nearly as bad as the G&G will claim. It's forgetable, but (high praise alert), it's better than Wonder Woman 84.

First noticable thing: Are there any white people in Russia? I know in real life they are trying to send the "poor minority women being exploited message", but it's still jarring when this Russian-based program is at least half-black women and more Asian women than white women.

There are only four male characters in the movie: Red Guardian, Rick Mason, General Ross, and Harvey Weinstein errrr I mean General Dreykov. Red Guardian is a complete comedy character, Mason is just there to advance the plot by handing out equipment and being the butt of jokes, Ross is only in the opening scene where he does nothing, and Dreykov is clearly a Weinstein clone. Shocking, I know.

It was obvious where they were going with the Taskmaster character after they introduced the Natasha killed Dreykov's daughter storyline, although I will admit at first I thought the Taskmaster was their mother. The problem I had with the Taskmaster is that they set her up to be the biggest badass in the first two acts, then in the actual climax she gets in a ten-second fight with the "parents" and immediately trapped in a room like a geek, then she needs to be freed by Natasha or she would have just died in the explosion, then they fight for like 10 seconds and Natasha gives her the "free will spray", though that didn't make sense to me because I thought she was being controlled by the chips in her neck and not given the chemical compound? Also it was never established that Antonia would hate her father for any reason, but I guess we are automatically supposed to know that because he's Harvey Weinstein.

The reason why I say this movie reminded me of Ant-Man and the Wasp was being it felt like Taskmaster was written exactly the same as Ghost in that movie; a female badass being forced to do things against her will who was immediately deemed ineffective in the actual climax for the "real" villain.

Also as an aside, it seemed like things in the climax were WAY too easy. Like every obstacle was solved in like 10 seconds. Even the mother being trapped in the control room went nowhere because she immediately got out through a grate.

Did I forget something in a previous movie? So at the end, all of the new characters leave by plane and Natasha stays behind to confront General Ross. But before that could happen, it fades to black and cuts to two weeks later where she is free and now has the blond hair from Civil War. What happened there? Why did Ross let her go? Why was Ross in Russia at all? I feel like that fade to black was either a scene I was supposed to remember but didn't or the writers didn't know what to do so they just cut away.

Edit: Okay, at least I wasn't the only one who noticed this:

www.thewrap.com

Uh, Is a Scene Missing at the Very End of 'Black Widow'?

The ending of the movie left us with a pretty big plot hole -- a plot hole that was apparently left there on purpose
www.thewrap.com www.thewrap.com

TL;DR - Even the director of Black Widow doesn't know. They just cut away and "left it to your imagination".

One of my favorite scenes in MI:4 was the opening Russian prison escape. The scene in this movie was the exact opposite in every way: they had no real plan, they did everything stupid, and got out through sheer luck. Then it turns out, they didn't even fucking need him except he was the one that led them to the actual useful parent.


So Black Widow isn't actually a super human, right? There were at least a half-dozen times she took a fall from heights she shouldn't have survived. If we can make fun of Dom Toretto for this, then I can make fun of it here.
 
Última edición:
Salubrious dijo:
I actually thought it was closer to Ant-Man and the Wasp for a couple reasons I'll get into below.

TL;DR - I thought it was "fine." I wouldn't call it good, but it's not nearly as bad as the G&G will claim. It's forgetable, but (high praise alert), it's better than Wonder Woman 84.

First noticable thing: Are there any white people in Russia? I know in real life they are trying to send the "poor minority women being exploited message", but it's still jarring when this Russian-based program is at least half-black women and more Asian women than white women.

There are only four male characters in the movie: Red Guardian, Rick Mason, General Ross, and Harvey Weinstein errrr I mean General Dreykov. Red Guardian is a complete comedy character, Mason is just there to advance the plot by handing out equipment and being the butt of jokes, Ross is only in the opening scene where he does nothing, and Dreykov is clearly a Weinstein clone. Shocking, I know.

It was obvious where they were going with the Taskmaster character after they introduced the Natasha killed Dreykov's daughter storyline, although I will admit at first I thought the Taskmaster was their mother. The problem I had with the Taskmaster is that they set her up to be the biggest badass in the first two acts, then in the actual climax she gets in a ten-second fight with the "parents" and immediately trapped in a room like a geek, then she needs to be freed by Natasha or she would have just died in the explosion, then they fight for like 10 seconds and Natasha gives her the "free will spray", though that didn't make sense to me because I thought she was being controlled by the chips in her neck and not given the chemical compound? Also it was never established that Antonia would hate her father for any reason, but I guess we are automatically supposed to know that because he's Harvey Weinstein.

The reason why I say this movie reminded me of Ant-Man and the Wasp was being it felt like Taskmaster was written exactly the same as Ghost in that movie; a female badass being forced to do things against her will who was immediately deemed ineffective in the actual climax for the "real" villain.

Also as an aside, it seemed like things in the climax were WAY too easy. Like every obstacle was solved in like 10 seconds. Even the mother being trapped in the control room went nowhere because she immediately got out through a grate.

Did I forget something in a previous movie? So at the end, all of the new characters leave by plane and Natasha stays behind to confront General Ross. But before that could happen, it fades to black and cuts to two weeks later where she is free and now has the blond hair from Civil War. What happened there? Why did Ross let her go? Why was Ross in Russia at all? I feel like that fade to black was either a scene I was supposed to remember but didn't or the writers didn't know what to do so they just cut away.

One of my favorite scenes in MI:4 was the opening Russian prison escape. The scene in this movie was the exact opposite in every way: they had no real plan, they did everything stupid, and got out through sheer luck. Then it turns out, they didn't even fucking need him except he was the one that led them to the actual useful parent.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=0vf5mf0NsEc

So Black Widow isn't actually a super human, right? There were at least a half-dozen times she took a fall from heights she shouldn't have survived. If we can make fun of Dom Toretto for this, then I can make fun of it here.
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lol, goes to show how forgettable it was that I literally can't remember the "real" villain of Ant Man 2. Was it Lawrence Fishburn's character (who's not really a real villain anyways) or did that movie just not have a proper villain after Ghost?
 
Gar For Archer dijo:
lol, goes to show how forgettable it was that I literally can't remember the "real" villain of Ant Man 2. Was it Lawrence Fishburn's character (who's not really a real villain anyways) or did that movie just not have a proper villain after Ghost?
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He wasn't really memorable at all, and the climax was more about getting people out of the Quantum Realm, but I like Walter Goggins as a character actor. He's the closest thing this movie has to a villain.

antmanandthewasp-waltongoggins-lab-suv-700x322.jpg
 
Salubrious dijo:
TL;DR - Even the director of Black Widow doesn't know. They just cut away and "left it to your imagination".
Presiona para expandir...
The problem with Ross in the MCU is that he has never, ever been expanded upon. He shows up and is an authoritarian asshole. Full stop, no other characterization. He just exists to be an inevitably side-stepped road block. So the scene at the end with Ross getting glossed over, while glaring, ultimately has no impact.
It was obvious where they were going with the Taskmaster character after they introduced the Natasha killed Dreykov's daughter storyline, although I will admit at first I thought the Taskmaster was their mother. The problem I had with the Taskmaster is that they set her up to be the biggest badass in the first two acts, then in the actual climax she gets in a ten-second fight with the "parents" and immediately trapped in a room like a geek, then she needs to be freed by Natasha or she would have just died in the explosion, then they fight for like 10 seconds and Natasha gives her the "free will spray", though that didn't make sense to me because I thought she was being controlled by the chips in her neck and not given the chemical compound? Also it was never established that Antonia would hate her father for any reason, but I guess we are automatically supposed to know that because he's Harvey Weinstein.



The reason why I say this movie reminded me of Ant-Man and the Wasp was being it felt like Taskmaster was written exactly the same as Ghost in that movie; a female badass being forced to do things against her will who was immediately deemed ineffective in the actual climax for the "real" villain.
Presiona para expandir...
The Taskmaster seemed to setup/continue two ideas the movie had: How incredibly sociopathic and generally unlikeable Dreykov was and How he was ultimately still incompetent and could never hope to hold a candle to groups like Hydra. The sociopathy speaks for itself; no rational human would do that to their own child. The incompetency is shown through him doing dumb shit like just blathering on and on like a Bond villain while Natasha lets him, her being able to free herself from his 400th form of mind control, which was always known about, at any point. Taskmaster shows that even at his best, he still comes up short. He has someone who can perfectly mimic most of the avengers fighting styles, including Hawkeye's archery, but is still held off by a fat, aged, out of shape knock off Cap. America and an aged scientist spy.
I get what you're saying about the compound but I just assumed it was derived from Wanda since seeing it the first time, given the color and how they showed it affecting those hit by it, appearing to apply the same way as Wanda's mind control. It doesn't address the issues of the physical chips in her neck but I would assume either the Wanda compound or the station going down at least deactivated them. I'm probably reaching but it also plays into Dreykov's being shit at his job because a piece of Hydra derived tech ends up ruining his best creation.
ItAlso as an aside, it seemed like things in the climax were WAY too easy. Like every obstacle was solved in like 10 seconds. Even the mother being trapped in the control room went nowhere because she immediately got out through a grate.
Presiona para expandir...
I'll admit the ease things are solved is a negative. The mom getting "trapped" was less of a mortal danger and just meant they were stuck crash landing the aircraft/station thing, rather than having it intact for Natasha to use as a bargaining chip.
So Black Widow isn't actually a super human, right? There were at least a half-dozen times she took a fall from heights she shouldn't have survived. If we can make fun of Dom Toretto for this, then I can make fun of it here.
Presiona para expandir...
There may be hints of a watered down super soldier serum being used on black widow(s) but I may be mixing comics and MCU here. The scene where the widow shoots herself in front of Nat when she lands on her feet after hitting everything on the side of a building is the most glaring, I'll agree.
 
I enjoyed it well enough. More so than most of the MCU movies. I think only the Antman movie and Dr. Strange movie would I rank higher. But then my tastes run much more to the human emotion and relationship aspects than quippy action. And thank the gods, this movie was a lot less quippy.

Florence Pugh was very good. And her character and delivery convincingly cynical enough that I could believe she was Russian. Scarlett Johanssen remains a reliable actress - this isn't exactly the deepest character movie but she invests a lot in it and I enjoyed her performance. I liked Red Guardian a lot. A guy I felt I could relate to. And David Harbours performance was great. I did wonder when he left in the jet with all those Black Widows how he's going to handle all those peak fitness young women given he has "a lot of energy". Frankly I'd have liked to see him beat Task Master but the movie was never going to let that happen. I mean, even if Task Master can mimic any fighting styles, he's got mild super-strength and resilience. You can throw a punch exactly like Mike Tyson but if you don't have his years of physical training behind it, it's not going to be the same. And we see Red Guardian literally snap someone's forearm one-handed in the prison sequence. But anyway, I'd just like to see him be allowed at least one really meaningful victory - he deserved it both for being so likeable and because frankly, his character background and abilities owe it to him.

I didn't find it excessively woke. Obviously there's something slightly implausible about picking exclusively women for your elite physical assassins program but it's a comic book thing and watching them throw around large, armoured guards. Teenage boys liked the idea of sexy all-female assassins so that's what the comic book delivers. It's not a big deal.

Ray Winstone is very good at playing someone utterly repugnant. I'm not entirely sure why the Russian villain has a cockney accent, though.

EDIT: Someone above said of Taskmaster it would have been better if she had not been mind-controlled but was just psychopathic full stop. I agree with them.
 
Última edición:
Salubrious dijo:
So Black Widow isn't actually a super human, right? There were at least a half-dozen times she took a fall from heights she shouldn't have survived.
Presiona para expandir...
Black Widow has been pulling superhuman feats for most of the MCU, in the first Avengers she gets thrown by Hulk into a metal thing and seemingly takes no damage, and in the beggining of Civil War she pulls a Chuck Norris, where she throws a grenade inside a tank, takes out like 4 soldiers then strikes a pose and the grenade explodes, being someone who knows very little about marvel comics I always assumed she was a sort of super soldier, turns out she's supposed to be normal
 
Stab You in the Back dijo:
Rotten Tomatoes has Black Widow at 80%, placing it in the lower half of the MCU in terms of quality and below most films featuring heartthrob Jeremy Renner's Hawkeye.

Ant-Man and the Wasp - 87%
Black Widow - 80%
Captain Marble - 79%
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It is better than Captain Mary Sue so therefore it is superior.

People are mad about Taskmaster but honestly it doesn't bother me. MCU desperately needs more female villains though.
I appreciate how they showed the Red Room in a non-sanatized state in the beginning. Is it comparable to #metoo? Absolutely not.

Natasha killing the daughter (or so she thought) was interesting because it is a callback to the comics. She had a mission where she was to assassinate a family. Her and another Widow. What happened was she killed them all including the Widow and a cat. It's one of the reasons she became cold and distant

But the film was indeed about family and taking back control of one's life. I get what they were doing with the stinger but they seriously fucked up by killing Nat. While it does give Yelena motivation and a plot to follow it still should not have been her that dies. It should have been Flopeye.

JLD at the end helped ease the pain of her death with her sarcasm and shit tbh.

Also there were so many doubles and symbolism in the movie. The song, the head touch, the two sisters, the pose, etc etc
Now we know what Loki taunted her about in Avengers too.

It sucks Nat died for no reason but Florence will do a good job. She was most impressive here.

The film gave off shades of Leon The Professional, La Femme Nikita, The Winter Soldier, and Atomic Blonde and it was very effective tbh.
 
At the end of the movie, Taskmaster after getting sprayed, should’ve continued trying to kill Natasha because SHE MELTED HALF HER FACE what the hell why did she stop.

I also don’t understand the beginning at all.
Where did the vials come from in the first place? Not Melinda, she was still actively working for Dreykov. SHIELD? They didn’t know the Red Room was still active. No idea.
 
Los Pollos Hermanos dijo:
I also don’t understand the beginning at all.
Where did the vials come from in the first place? Not Melinda, she was still actively working for Dreykov. SHIELD? They didn’t know the Red Room was still active. No idea.
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There's a quick, off-hand reference that it was former Widows that made the antidote. Definitely something that should've been explored more.
 
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