Black Widow

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KillThemCrackasBabies dijo:
"Confirmed spoilers" seem to confirm it's
not a Scarlett Johansson movie but a Florence Pugh movie
, and that seems to have pissed a lot of people off.

Bear in mind the guy who wrote the "worst" review for it thus far had raved over the 2017 Josstice League, so take his recommendation for what that's worth.
Presiona para expandir...
I guess that kind of makes sense given what they're trying to set up. Sucks for Scarlett though.
 
KillThemCrackasBabies dijo:
"Confirmed spoilers" seem to confirm it's
not a Scarlett Johansson movie but a Florence Pugh movie
, and that seems to have pissed a lot of people off.

Bear in mind the guy who wrote the "worst" review for it thus far had raved over the 2017 Josstice League, so take his recommendation for what that's worth.
Presiona para expandir...
He also praised WW84 so lol
Also
I mean duh Yelena is gonna take over as the new BW. Its like how Falcon is the new Cap, Kate Bishop is new Hawkeye, and Cassie Lang is new Ant/Wasp. Cate Shortland literally said it sets her up to take over but Florence has specifically said that its Nats story
 
Continuity is a fucking curse. Imagine wanting a Captain America movie but all you get is some scrawny black guy yelling at white people to do better.
 
The review embargo lifted a few days ago, it has 84% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 70 on Metacritic. Seems to be your standard MCU film. They're praising the performances of the main four and saying the third act is underwhelming, the villain is weak, and the apparent need for every MCU movie to end with a big CGI fight kinda brings it down a little but it's still pretty enjoyable. I've seen things that suggest the recent leak about Taskmaster being Dreykov's daughter was real so I'll give them props for that, they actually changed things up. I'm not a big fan of how it's apparently more Yelena's movie than Natasha's but idk maybe it works well and just sounds bad on paper.

Also I was looking at stills and I noticed that Red Guardian has "KARL MARX" tattooed on his knuckles. This isn't really an issue, I just think the whole Russia=Communism stereotype is kind of tacky but I don't know what I was expecting from a Marvel movie.
 
Internet's Boyfriend dijo:
The review embargo lifted a few days ago, it has 84% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 70 on Metacritic. Seems to be your standard MCU film. They're praising the performances of the main four and saying the third act is underwhelming, the villain is weak, and the apparent need for every MCU movie to end with a big CGI fight kinda brings it down a little but it's still pretty enjoyable. I've seen things that suggest the recent leak about Taskmaster being Dreykov's daughter was real so I'll give them props for that, they actually changed things up. I'm not a big fan of how it's apparently more Yelena's movie than Natasha's but idk maybe it works well and just sounds bad on paper.

Also I was looking at stills and I noticed that Red Guardian has "KARL MARX" tattooed on his knuckles. This isn't really an issue, I just think the whole Russia=Communism stereotype is kind of tacky but I don't know what I was expecting from a Marvel movie.
Presiona para expandir...

I wouldn't expect anything farted out by Disney to get bad ratings. Cruella has high ratings everywhere despite it flopping and being a punchline online the week of it's release.
 
Am I imagining things, or is Marvel gunning for the worst Advertising campaign of all time with this movie? Every time I turn around, it's like Marvel is distancing itself from the character saying that sexy white women are bad and this movie will make men squirm. Am I imagining all this or is this just Twitter projecting their biases onto the film?


thedirect.com

Marvel Producer Is Still Bothered By Robert Downey Jr. Line About Johansson's Natasha In Iron Man 2

Executive Vice President of Production at Marvel Studios, Victoria Alonso touched on a sexist line spoken about Natasha Romanoff when she was first introduced in 2010's Iron Man 2.
thedirect.com thedirect.com

time.com

Black Widow Began as a Sexist Stereotype. More Than a Decade Later, Scarlett Johansson Is Reclaiming Her Story

Behind the scenes of Black Widow's reinvention from sexist stereotype to superhero paving the way for other leading women in action movies
time.com time.com

comicbook.com

Black Widow Producer Says Marvel Studios Is Making Effort to "Not Objectify Women" in MCU

When it comes to female representation, the Marvel Cinematic Universe has come a long way in [...]
comicbook.com comicbook.com
 
Última edición:
Salubrious dijo:
Am I imagining things, or is Marvel gunning for the worst Advertising campaign of all time with this movie? Every time I turn around, it's like Marvel is distancing itself from the character saying that sexy white women are bad and this movie will make men squirm. Am I imagining all this or is this just Twitter projecting their biases onto the film?


thedirect.com

Marvel Producer Is Still Bothered By Robert Downey Jr. Line About Johansson's Natasha In Iron Man 2

Executive Vice President of Production at Marvel Studios, Victoria Alonso touched on a sexist line spoken about Natasha Romanoff when she was first introduced in 2010's Iron Man 2.
thedirect.com thedirect.com

time.com

Black Widow Began as a Sexist Stereotype. More Than a Decade Later, Scarlett Johansson Is Reclaiming Her Story

Behind the scenes of Black Widow's reinvention from sexist stereotype to superhero paving the way for other leading women in action movies
time.com time.com

comicbook.com

Black Widow Producer Says Marvel Studios Is Making Effort to "Not Objectify Women" in MCU

When it comes to female representation, the Marvel Cinematic Universe has come a long way in [...]
comicbook.com comicbook.com
Presiona para expandir...
I think it is in part their obsession with being "the first X movie" remember how Black Panther was the first black superhero despite blade existing before? Or how Captain Marvel was the first female led superhero movie despite Wonder Woman being a thing? They are probably lowkey trying to have this be "the first superheroine movie where the chick is not sexualized even tho we totally did a few movies back"
 
Última edición:
I saw this tonight. The first half is decent -- very strong Bourne Identity vibes from it. The second half degrades into typical MCU explosions , meaningless action, and a flying hi-tech fortress. I liked Yelena well enough, she's basically a younger and more quippy Natasha, which I'm sure people will hate. She'd probably work well on the Thunderbolts, if they ever get around to that.

The pacing and structure could have been a lot better but I think the film's biggest problem is that the plot's foundation just doesn't work very well. The lynchpin of the movie is that Natasha, Yelena, Mellina, and Alexei see themselves as a family... because they spent three years undercover as one more than twenty years ago. The connection between them is fairly weak and isn't developed well at all, especially the latter two.

In fact, you probably could've have completely written Alexei (the Red Guardian) out of the film, as he serves no real purpose in it. Mellina, too, probably could've have been removed or written as a supporting character that's just connected to the Red Room rather than Natasha and Yelena. Simply having Natasha and Yelena having a sisterly bond because they became close in the Red Room and did missions together would have been enough for what the film's plot needs.

Had they kept it a grounded spy thriller in the same vein as Casino Royale or Skyfall it probably would've been good. In the actual film, however, once the prison break happens it pretty much just devolves into noise.

I didn't really give much of a shit about the changes to Taskmaster. In the comics he's not a super well defined or in-depth character, so the changes don't much bother me. The problem with the character is that she's completely wasted. She's not used much and her ending is just sorta shitty. A more interesting ending I think would've been: have the antidote do nothing to her, she keeps fighting, and Natasha realizes she isn't mind controlled but just genuinely hates her due to what she did.
 
It was... alright. I read the leaks and a few reviews and I was also just kinda burned out on the constant marketing of how it's "so deep, so raw" so maybe that influenced how I saw this but I wasn't as into it as I thought I'd be.

I'll give them this, they actually speak Russian! I imagine they completely botch it but at least it's there. How sad that I consider it notable to have characters speak their native language to each other.

I feel like they really wanted to sell the emotional parts(mixed feelings over "fake" family, the trauma of the Red Room etc) but they were trying too hard so instead of feeling the emotion, it was like it was yelling "Look how emotional this is!!!" at me. I thought the opening credits montage set to the Smells Like Teen Spirit cover was kinda cringe, maybe it would've been better if they set it to a different song or something from the score but it was just a miss for me. Also I am so sick of those covers with moody female vocals like holy shit, please just let it die. I'd also argue that having opening credits spoils the Taskmaster reveal because Olga Kurylenko is credited, but I guess you'd probably forget about the credits once the movie gets going.

I'm also just sick of how they keep forcing feminism into shit like this. Like I agree that Black Widow and the Red Room is a good opportunity to talk about women being captured and having their free will taken away from them, but Hollywood doesn't know the meaning of subtlety. The scene near the beginning where a Widow gets Taskmaster ready and tells her to "smile" made me roll my eyes. Obviously you're not supposed to know that Taskmaster is a woman at this point but it's still pretty on the nose.

The fact that Dreykov literally says "The only natural resource that the world has too much of, GIRLS" is fucking astounding. Why not have him tell Natasha to get back in the kitchen too? Jesus fucking Christ.

The way Natasha acts when she's confronting Dreykov bothered me a little because she's being sort of aggressive and telling him he doesn't control her anymore, she's her own woman etc. It's a very "you go girl!" scene and it's just... tiresome. It's like they didn't bother putting any effort into writing it.

There's also a "joke" Yelena makes after Alexei makes a "time of the month" comment, where she goes on about how the Red Room performed hysterectomies on them. A few reviews I read mentioned how it was this poignant moment but this is the MCU so not only was it not poignant, it was also taken too far. Maybe a better way would've been for her to just bluntly say "They forcibly removed my uterus" then have a little awkward moment, I don't know, but I feel like the moment just overstayed its welcome for no good reason.

I don't understand how Antonia goes from being a schoolgirl when she gets exploded to being played by an actress older than Scarlett. Not that I don't like Olga, but she should be in her twenties.

The scene where all the Widows stand around Natasha, staring menacingly while taking turns kicking and punching her in slow motion was really weird. I know they needed to get them all together so Yelena could use the dust bomb on them but surely there was another way.

There were so many parts where I just wanted to turn it off. I don't know why but there was some part of me that just couldn't take this film like the others, maybe because I actually cared about this one? IDK. I actually paused it around the part where Alexei and Yelena start singing together because I just needed a break.

Honestly, this was just kind of a let down for me. I see where I'm supposed to feel things but this movie wants so much to make me feel things and be deep that it almost lacks sincerity and it just feels sort of shallow.

Tor Lugosi dijo:
I liked Yelena well enough, she's basically a younger and more quippy Natasha, which I'm sure people will hate.
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I feel like it wouldn't be such a problem if "quippy" didn't describe like 90% of the MCU, but yeah Yelena is one of the characters it works well for.

Tor Lugosi dijo:
I didn't really give much of a shit about the changes to Taskmaster. In the comics he's not a super well defined or in-depth character, so the changes don't much bother me. The problem with the character is that she's completely wasted. She's not used much and her ending is just sorta shitty. A more interesting ending I think would've been: have the antidote do nothing to her, she keeps fighting, and Natasha realizes she isn't mind controlled but just genuinely hates her due to what she did.
Presiona para expandir...
That would've been really cool, but it's both too smart for the MCU and goes against the "women being subjugated by men" point they're trying to push.

Poor Olga though. Such a waste.
 
Lol I watched it and she's as sexualized as usual. Twitter is projecting. There's a lot of low-from behind ass shots and they do end up on the floor crawling a lot but that's about it.

Overall very meh film. It's not offensive, insufferable or obnoxious, and it's not a feminist/SJW movie. It's a totally acceptable flick with strong women in it. I did like Red Guardian over though they reused the fat superhero storyline. They should have used him more (and he shouldve fought Cap before Endgame). I don't know why but I like the fact he's a prisoner and a charlatan who is secretly just super strong. I would love to see more of him.
 
I liked it. That opening scene with the little girls in a shipping container was haunting, and I had to check to make sure I didn't turn on a documentary about Jeffrey Epstein by mistake. The humour didn't feel as forced as in some other Marvel properties, and really felt like sisters ribbing each other, or Alexi telling tall tales to impress his fellow inmates. However, as much as I liked David Harbour, which was a lot, and I hope Red Guardian sticks around, I felt his Russian accent could've used some work. I was expecting some cringe #girlboss moments, but nothing comes to mind. During the latter, maybe 1/3(?), I felt like it lost steam as it devolved into punching and explosions, but that's generally what I expect from a Marvel movie. I know people are bummed about the changes to Taskmaster, but I've never really read many comics with him, so I didn't care about that. Julia Louis-Dreyfuss was a nice touch for that credits scene, and I'm interested in the team it seems like she's assembling. Obviously Yelena as the BW, John Walker as the Cap, Ross as Red Hulk, presumably, Kate Bishop as the Hawkeye, and maybe Justin Hammer as discount Iron Man? Also, it didn't help that there was never any real danger for Natasha or Yelena, because you know both of them make it out of this one alive, but, I was surprised that both Melina and Red Guardian survived. Consider my expectations subverted. Overall, out of all 20-something Marvel movies, I'd put this one in the top half, probably. I liked it more than a lot of their other movies, but I wasn't blown away
 
It’s weird. I used to be a huge Marvel/MCU fanboy when I was younger, but now that I’m older I just can’t bring myself to give a shit about this franchise anymore.

I just think it’s that I want something more challenging and less formulaic from my entertainment, and the MCU almost always plays it safe, and just when it looks like it might be taking some sort of risk, it walks it back while continually stringing you along with the promise of something greater that it never truly delivers on.

That, and the franchise seems to be so afraid of sincerity to the point where almost every genuine moment of gravitas has to be ruined by a joke because the people making these movies don’t seem to trust the audience to stay invested without nonstop quips flying out of the characters’ mouths (to paraphrase a certain mathematical genius, Joss Whedon and his influence has been a disaster for the entertainment medium).
 
Thinking about it, they probably could've kept most of the comic Taskmaster's characterization for the MCU one even with the changes. Just make her the teacher for the Widows' and could've even made her a psychopath both due to her past and because her dad's one, too. Instead they decided to make Taskmaster into a sort of Terminator, which just doesn't work because the character is used too sparingly throughout the film and she's just sorta a non-entity in general.
 
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