Are Italians white?

[Rand /pol/]

This will piss off plenty of people, but most Northern Africans are actually white and middle eastern in appearance, primarily due to it being close to the Mediterranean, and the Sahara acting as a barrier between the north and south.

you aren't white

 

[Kirito]

They're part white, so no.

 

[Dragon Face]

Shhh, you're going to upset SJWs.

 

[I'm Just A Human Bean]

Italian Americans don't want to be white.

 

[Non-Threatening Niall]

That scene from True Romance comes to mind

"Do you know why the Sardinian flag has four niggos?"

 

[Ponderous Pillock]

Greasy dago wops, white?

Fuck off.

 

[Nazi vegeta]

White people dont exist, let alone white italiunz.
Sargyn said it so it must be true.

 

[Syaoran Li]

This thread strikes me as a case of "Obvious Troll is Obvious"

Italians are white. Anyone who says that Italians aren't white is either a dumb Sargon fanboy from /pol/ or is hopelessly stuck in the 1890's.

For fuck's sake, the core of white Western culture originated in Greece and Italy via the Greeks and Romans!

You might as well say that the Irish aren't white if you're wanting to go all 19th Century.

Seriously, I'm sick of this dumb "Italians Aren't White" meme.

 

[Kirito]

This thread strikes me as a case of "Obvious Troll is Obvious"

Italians are white. Anyone who says that Italians aren't white is either a dumb Sargon fanboy from /pol/ or is hopelessly stuck in the 1890's.

For fuck's sake, the core of white Western culture originated in Greece and Italy via the Greeks and Romans!

You might as well say that the Irish aren't white if you're wanting to go all 19th Century.

Seriously, I'm sick of this dumb "Italians Aren't White" meme.

You cry out "This is a troll thread!" and then immediately fall for the troll thread.
Italians have heavy north African and middle eastern admixture from after the fall of the Roman empire, which is the grounds for people claiming they're not white.

 

[Syaoran Li]

You cry out "This is a troll thread!" and then immediately fall for the troll thread.
Italians have heavy north African and middle eastern admixture from after the fall of the Roman empire, which is the grounds for people claiming they're not white.

Okay, I'll admit that I overreacted a little.

Most of the people who mixed in with the Romans in mainland Italy after the fall of the Empire were Germanic tribes such as the Goths and especially the Lombards, which is why the meme about Italians not being white really annoys me because it's not accurate and reeks of antiquated rhetoric from 19th Century WASP's.

Really it's only the Sicilians that got the North African or Middle Eastern mixed in large quantities. And most mainland Italians don't consider Sicilians to be true Italians. Even the Southern Italians look down on Sicilians.

 

[Sir Auroras]

Whiter than blacks and minorities. It's like looking at a monkey and seeing no minuscule distinction.

 

[UselessRubberKeyboard]

Tfw you find out you're half black.

 

[Mariposa Electrique]

The same race as Elizabeth Warren.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

It depends on how you define "white".

Are Spaniards white? Are Greeks white? Are Turks white? Are Syrians white?

Depending on where you draw the line, the answer could be anywhere between "no" to all above, and "yes" to all above.

If we're basing our assessment purely upon genetics, then I would say yes, simply because Italians are more genetically similar to other European populations than they are to the populations of any other continent, but I don't know if that's what your criteria is.

 

[HG 400]

This thread strikes me as a case of "Obvious Troll is Obvious"

Italians are white. Anyone who says that Italians aren't white is either a dumb Sargon fanboy from /pol/ or is hopelessly stuck in the 1890's.

For fuck's sake, the core of white Western culture originated in Greece and Italy via the Greeks and Romans!

You might as well say that the Irish aren't white if you're wanting to go all 19th Century.

Seriously, I'm sick of this dumb "Italians Aren't White" meme.

The Irish aren't white.

 

[Tookie]

The presence of a typical African marker (haplotype Gm 5*;1,17;…), especially in the genetic structure of Alia and Palermo, highlights the possibility of past contacts with peoples from Africa. […] Therefore, the introduction of an African polymorphism could have been due to the Phoenician colonization or to the more recent Arab conquest of the territory (9th century A.D.).

A study (Semino et al. 1989) carried out with restriction enzymes on mtDNA indicated the presence of African haplotypes (4.4%) in a sample of Sicilians.

The authors hypothesized an input of genes from Africa to Sicily (estimated at about 10%) brought by Phoenician migrations. The Cartheginians were called the Afris by the Romans.

SICULI: “Ancient Sicilian tribe that occupied the eastern part of Sicily. Old tales related that the Siculi once lived in central Italy but were driven out and finally crossed to Sicily, leaving remnants behind…. They are hard to identify archaeologically, although some words of their Indo-European language are known.”

SICANI: “According to ancient Greek writers, the aboriginal inhabitants of western Sicily, as opposed to the Siculi of eastern Sicily. Archaeologically there is no substantial difference between Sicani and Siculi (Sicels) in historical times; but ancient authorities believed the Sicani to be Iberians from Spain….”

THE IBERIANS

Historians have suggested that they may have originated in North Africa. This portion of the theory is supported by an observation of C. Michael Hogan who points out similarities between Chalcolithic artefacts in Iberia with Neolithic pottery in parts of Morocco.

The Iberians would have initially settled along the eastern coast of Spain, and then possibly spread throughout the rest of the Iberian Peninsula….

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberians

By the time the Greeks placed their own colonies in western Sicily, the Carthaginians had already occupied the western end of the island, and for centuries the two sides struggled indecisively to seize control of the whole island. In 264, the Romans began a major war with the Carthaginians in Sicily (the First Punic War, 264-242), eventually wrestling away Sicily, Corsica and Sardinia from the Carthaginians. During the Second Punic War (218-202), the Carthaginian general Hannibal inflicted major defeats on the Romans, who eventually won the day, restricting the Carthaginians to their own immediate territory in Africa.” See http://www.ualberta.ca/~csmackay/CLASS_110/Hittites.html

In 210 BC, the Roman Consul M. Valerian informed the Senate that “no Carthaginian remains in Sicily.” See http://www.onlineencyclopedia.org/s/si/sicily.html

Scozzari et al. (2001) identify a Y-chromosome mutation that “diverged from the ancestor HG25.1 somewhere in North Africa a few thousand years ago”, and is thus indicative of recent gene flow from North African males. The authors report that the marker “HG25.2 was seen at generally low frequencies in Spain, France, and Italy”…

Cruciani et al. (2004) confirm the above, using the frequencies of ‘Berber’ mutations (now labeled E-M81 and E-M78?) in large sample populations to estimate that North African paternal admixture within the past 5000 years amounts to 1.5% in Northern Italians, 2.2% in Central Italians, 0% in Southern Italians, 1.4% in Sardinians and 1.4% in Sicilians…

See Cruciani et al. (2004) Phylogeographic analysis of haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y chromosomes reveals multiple migratory events within and out of Africa. Am J Hum Genet; 74

AND YET MOOR AFRI ROMAN GENES….

Blood group phenotypes and the origin of sickle cell hemoglobin in Sicilians.

Sandler SG, Schiliro G, Russo A, Musumeci S, Rachmilewitz EA.

As an approach to investigating the origin of sickle cell hemoglobin (hemoglobin S) in white persons of Sicilian ancestry, two groups of native Sicilians were tested for blood group evidence of African admixture. Among 100 unrelated Sicilians, the phenotypes cDe(Rho) and Fy(a-b-), and the antigens V(hrv) and Jsa, which are considered to be African genetic markers, were detected in 12 individuals. Among 64 individuals from 21 families with at least one known hemoglobin S carrier, African blood group markers were detected in 7 (11%). These findings indicate that hemoglobin S is only one of multiple African genes present in contemporary Sicilian populations. The occurrence of hemoglobin S in white persons of Sicilian ancestry is considered to be a manifestation of the continuing dissemination of the original African mutation.

The history of Sicily begins with the history of Europe, during the upper Paleolithic (20,000 – 10,000 bC): it was populated by peoples of the modern human type. Settlements and new civilizations followed in waves, then followed by new ones over and over: the Phoenician, the Greeks, the Arabs (the Moors)…..

The most ancient Sicilian culture we know is dated around 10,000 bC (as established from rock carvings at Mount Pellegrino), followed by others until in the Eneolithic (Copper age, 3,500-3,000 bC) the island began to be subjected to ever increasing influences by oriental and Mediterranean civilizations.

Sicily used to have a different name before the current one (we would call it Sicania): it originated from the “Sicani” people : anthropologists tell us that the “Sicani” had nothing in common with the “Siculi”, who came later.

The former originated from Libya, and geologists admit they could have come to the western part of the island when a strip of land emerged during glacial eras used to connect Africa to Sicily, therefore these people where of Camitic origin. About 1,000 bC these people were subjugated ed by the Carthaginese.

 

[Londo]

Pasta Niggers. That is all.

 

[Crunchy Leaf]

let's see what esteemed American Ben Franklin has to say:

Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in Mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.

In honesty, I think it depends. Most Italians are white, but some of them aren't. I went to high school with this Italian kid who is definitely brown (he looks just like his older brother but darker so I don't think he's mixed). If his last name weren't DiMento, nobody would ever think he was white.

 

[Nazi vegeta]

yeah, it is somewhat easy to spot those who have mongrel blood in them.
they show brownish skin and black hair, eyebrows and eyes, usually.

 

[BeanBidan]

OP, some people say the Irish aren't white.

Irish harps doing a job for a nickel a nigger does for a dime and the white man used to get a quarter for.
I.e. they aren't.