Animal Conservation - Why I’m honestly ok with some animals going extinct.

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I'm a conservationist because I'm a conservative, which means I like things pretty much the way they are and do not want to see big changes. That includes environmental changes.

Specialist animals, like Pandas and Koalas, are always doomed. The evolved into a corner so I don't care, might as well turn them into chinese dick-pills. Apex animals like Elephants, Rhinos, and Polar Bears I should care about, but I kinda don't. Humans can fill that ecological niche by killing more seals and trampling more niggers.

Lower food chain extinctions and disruptions are what concern me more.
 
I'm a conservationist because I'm a conservative, which means I like things pretty much the way they are and do not want to see big changes. That includes environmental changes.

Specialist animals, like Pandas and Koalas, are always doomed. The evolved into a corner so I don't care, might as well turn them into chinese dick-pills. Apex animals like Elephants, Rhinos, and Polar Bears I should care about, but I kinda don't. Humans can fill that ecological niche by killing more seals and trampling more niggers.

Lower food chain extinctions and disruptions are what concern me more.
Best bears are Asiatic Black Bears and Eurasian Brown Bears. Fite me.
 
historically these areas were regarded as the spawning ground of fever and clearing them was progress. given the size of the frontier world, it was a fair assessment for the time. today "miasma" isn't a threat (or a real thing)

Isn't malaria caused by mosquitoes? Where do mosquitoes like to breed again? Just a minor point but this is some of that folksy wisdom that certain people seem to elide over; it's not exactly a stupid idea that wetlands might be a breeding ground for disease. But I guess it's because they were pre-germ theory so they had the wrong explanation for WHY it was happening so they were just bad stupid and wrong.

areas like Cape May NJ are today wealthy tourist locations because the wetlands and beaches are well managed, in part through efforts of conservation societies. it is a beautiful reprieve from the rest of shithole Jersey and NYC. could cape May have turned into a fucking shit hole too?

If the whole world were Cape May would we have the carrying capacity for 7 billion humans plus all the new ones we're popping out daily?

yeah. but some group of people were smarter than that. everyone benefited because they didn't believe sort of folksy, anti-science idiot shit getting posted in this thread.

It's interesting that you attribute it all to rational scientific advancement instead of, say, the fact that some rich people liked the view from their Cape Cod better without a bunch of factories around. Everybody who agrees with you is top scientist and everybody who dissents is mouthbreather, is that the idea?

so there's a simple explanation without even touching upon any emotive, spiritual or philosophical arguments, or our responsibility to posterity, or a broader discussion about the state of the planet.

Most people aren't autistic robots who only take the 'science' into account, however. By the time we've stripped out those elements most people have peaced out because we find the philosophical and ethical arguments much more germane than assertions that 'science knows best so sit down, plebians'

the point isn't to build noahs fucking arc. civilization is trying to balance the tangible negative side effects of uncoordinated growth. where to draw the line is a discussion with many competing interests, and you'll get nowhere purposefully misunderstanding the other side.

I wasn't aware that civilization was trying to do anything; it seems like a largely uncoordinated effort toward some future that none of us is certain of. The only thing it seems like we're trying to do is make things easier and more habitable for humans. As for purposefully misunderstanding the other side; Pot, meet kettle.

t. actual crybaby

No u.

 
It's interesting that you attribute it all to rational scientific advancement instead of, say, the fact that some rich people liked the view from their Cape Cod better without a bunch of factories around.
I cite it as a concrete example of where conservation knowledge positively intersects with commerce and culture, preserving an empirically verifiable environmental necessity. not that conservation controlled the politics, or that it is societies only concern, and I said as much. I literally gave an example of clearing wetlands being a good thing. which clearly went over your head.

Most people aren't autistic robots who only take the 'science' into account,
why do you even assume I'm discarding the moral, philosophical, and religious value of nature? I was showing this shit should be common sense to even the most material and morally disinterested.

Everybody who agrees with you is top scientist and everybody who dissents is mouthbreather, is that the idea?
I also literally stated the exact opposite of this in my post. you can't even read and understand a whole KF post.
 
I cite it as a concrete example of where conservation knowledge positively intersects with commerce and culture, preserving an empirically verifiable environmental necessity. not that conservation controlled the politics, or that it is societies only concern, and I said as much. I literally gave an example of clearing wetlands being a good thing. which clearly went over your head.
I don't think that you write with as much clarity as you think you do. Reading back I can see that you may have been making that point but no, it wasn't immediately obvious at first blush. Maybe try breaking your thoughts up a little bit more instead of taking jabs at unenlightened ideas of miasma interspersed with acknowledging that clearing wetlands wasn't a bad idea or whatever your point was.
why do you even assume I'm discarding the moral, philosophical, and religious value of nature? I was showing this shit should be common sense to even the most material and morally disinterested.
Because again, you're not as intelligible as you might like to think. Also, you didn't address it. Do you think that might lead an observer to believe that you're discarding it?

I also literally stated the exact opposite of this in my post. you can't even read and understand a whole KF post.
I honestly can't find that anywhere, or even an implication of it. Why didn't you paste the relevant quote so we could all have a good chuckle at my illiteracy? I'd be interested to know if anybody else got that read from what you posted.
 
I honestly can't find that anywhere, or even an implication of it. Why didn't you paste the relevant quote so we could all have a good chuckle at my illiteracy? I'd be interested to know if anybody else got that read from what you posted.
where to draw the line is a discussion with many competing interests, and you'll get nowhere purposefully misunderstanding the other side.
wow you're a dummy
 
yeah. but some group of people were smarter than that. everyone benefited because they didn't believe sort of folksy, anti-science idiot shit getting posted in this thread.
that's quite the contrast with this putative olive branch:
where to draw the line is a discussion with many competing interests, and you'll get nowhere purposefully misunderstanding the other side.
Anyways, done shitting up the thread with this. Let's wait for some new content and try to win other people's hearts and minds over to our respective viewpoints. Robots make me squicky anyways.
 
that's quite the contrast with this putative olive branch:

Anyways, done shitting up the thread with this. Let's wait for some new content and try to win other people's hearts and minds over to our respective viewpoints. Robots make me squicky anyways.
what people are posting in this thread is not the articulated economic or civil counterpoints. it's dumb folksy shit.
 
Everything becomes extinct at some point. It's how the world works. Your gay ass polar bears will be extinct and eventually so will humans.

You can try to conserve as much as possible, you're just delaying the inevitable.

Well if it's inevitable why don't you just fucking kill yourself right now you edgelord faggot
 
I tend to think that anthropogenic extinction events are a symptom of a deeper problem. If ecosystems are being thrown out of balance because of human activity to the point that entire species are being wiped out, then we are clearly not acting as good stewards of the natural world, and since we exist as a part of this balance, then it is in our self-interest to improve our relationship with it.

For me, conservation is something of an emotional distraction. It's all well and good to not want cute-looking animals to die forever, but the much more pressing concern, from our perspective, is the fact that we are causing damage to a larger ecosystem that our own survival ultimately depends upon. If we can start to take this concern seriously, then the threat of species going extinct isn't something we'll have to worry about.
 
Imma just leave this here again from that one opinions place

But my philosophy is that in order for wildlife and wild places to truly thrive, it needs to have some sort of value to the people who live around it.

Also with the big charismatic species, they have a major benefit to them. If you save 2000 sq km of land for gorillas in the Republic of Congo, for instance, you save countless other lesser known species.
 
In my opinion, I think it's better we try to keep as many species alive as possible, and interfere as little with nature and animals as we can. We are constantly learning new things, and many assumptions are later proven wrong, take the guy who killed 40.000 Elephants becuase he thought they caused desertification in Africa, only to find the opposite (no, seriously, this is real (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Savory)).

As a conservative, I think we should mess as little as possible with things we do not fully understand yet.
 
I'm nominally very much in favor of avoiding fucking shit up and attempting to unfuck fucked shit, so conservationism is A-OK in my book.

That being said, fuck this stupid fish and the people who insist on continuing to dump shittons of fresh water into the goddamn sea just to try and keep it from vanishing. The delta smelt is probably by itself indirectly responsible for a goodly part of Cali's water woes.
 
Playing God for vanity reasons and bringing back naturally extinct species? There can be scientific gain from the de-extinction of some species like the woolly mammoth and the possible revival of the "mammoth steepe" (Earth's largest biome), that being said, it involves a lot of time and money, testing on elephants and further messing with nature for something with possible consequences that can be accomplished by other means. Just leave it be, don't mess with shit that doesn't need to be messed with.

Attempting to prevent the extinction of species driven to extinction due to human interaction? That's not a case of natural extinction, I'm of the belief that it's not cruel to attempt to fix your mistakes and prevent further decline.
 
Saving the environment that existed for all of human history is now impossible, but we can try making the world a tropical Mesozoic Eden as fast as possible if saving this one can’t be done.

Remember, for most of the time life has existed there wasn’t ice at the poles and forests or deserts covered the globe, if saving OUR Eden is impossible then we can create a new one and try seeing it through.
 
I'm of the middle ground when it comes to conservation. There's a certain line where a species is either doing fine and we personally fucked everything up for it one way or another, or a species is already so pathetically outclassed on a natural level that they deserve to be allowed to be wiped out provided they aren't a cornerstone species that's essential to the environment they inhabit. I'll give an give an example of each category, and to make it spicier have them both be cute critters that pull on humanity's fragile heartstrings.

Sea otters. These little guys were nearly exterminated because we found their pelts oh-so-valuable. In other words we killed them off for an unnecessary luxury (such fur would only go to the elite and not people who needed fur to survive, at least when their population REALLY started to take a dive). But as a consequence, their very biome, kelp forests, suffered heavily from their removal as they had kept sea urchins, who can fell kelp in vast qualities like overzealous beavers, in check. Which in turn was disastrous for countless other species who called such forests their home. In areas where the otters have bounced back, once barren no man's lands have become bountiful, productive forests once more.

Giant pandas. These lazy fucks nearly died out from little else but their own incompetence. They eat bamboo, and only bamboo, which to add is an extremely nutritiously poor food source, doubly so for an animal with the digestive system of a carnivore. And guess what bamboo tends to do? All flower at once every several decades and then die. These dumb animals based their entire livelihood on a food source that can just disappear in a moment. What's more, they don't offer any ecological advantage like sea otters do. They could disappear and life would be no different for other species. To top it all off, they're so damn finicky and pathetic we literally had to force them to fuck to get their numbers back up. All in all, they only still exist because they just happen to pander to our stupid cuteness factor bias. If they were an insect, salamander, plant, or other such far more unpopular species, they would've rightfully died off a long time ago.

Bottom line is, even after you discount mankind's stake in the world there will always be species that just flat out fail in this sick and twisted game we call life regardless of what we're doing. It's but the natural cycle that they're phased out by something that does the job of survival better, and we're just wasting time and money trying to keep them alive for the sake of our precious sensibilities.
 
I think the one thing with conservation is that it needs to be done for human purposes. Other species don't have an inherent value. We certainly don't have to protect them from natural destruction. But, there's value in conservation because it preserves species for human enjoyment, as zoo animals, tourism, hunting, etc.

That's why small bugs shouldn't be conserved, but tigers and elephants should. Nobody gives a shit about bugs, but we enjoy having tigers and elephants around.
 
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