Abortion - An age old issue

[ProgKing of the North]

You mean like how your rights end where your fetus' begin?

The way I look at it is while it's inside a woman's body it's essentially a parasite kept there only because the host is willing to. The reason I don't think that applies to babies post-birth is that I feel that literally forcing somebody to carry a fetus around in their body is an unreasonable restriction on body autonomy, but forcing her to throw some money at keeping it alive until she can give it up for adoption or forcing a hospital to keep it alive isn't enough of an imposition on anybody for it to override the now-out baby's right to life.

At least that's how I, a single, childless male who is unlikely to get married, reconcile it in my mind.

 

[Sīn the Moon Daddy]

The adult life is worthless. It's illegal to buy or sell human beings, so they have zero value. Why should a fetus, which is not even capable of productive labor, be preserved?

In fact, abortion makes good economic sense- children produce nothing. They are a net drain on society.

 

[Eris!]

literally forcing somebody to carry a fetus around in their body is an unreasonable restriction on body autonomy

No one forced you to get pregnant. The only force involved is forcing you not to murder your baby.

 

[Sīn the Moon Daddy]

What is your personal stake in the survival of the human race? Do you have one?

Why is life so precious to you fags?

 

[ProgKing of the North]

No one forced you to get pregnant. The only force involved is forcing you not to murder your baby.

Nah, I'm a true and honest dude. If I become pregnant somehow, that fucker's getting aborted no questions asked.

 

[UQ 770]

I cannot be the first person to ask about this. But, has anyone ever considered the possibility that an unwanted baby might actually be affected while still in utero? We know stress is both caused by and releases certain chemicals. Is it possible that kids know right from the start that they're unwanted and may grow up stunted as a result of this? I'm aware this question is hard to parse since a lot of shitty parents have kids and then neglect them, so there's always the inevitable question of whether or not the kid got fucked up in the womb or fucked up by shitty parenting.

There's also rumors and urban legends of things like mothers having miscarriages due to sheer stress. I always assumed these were just a means of covering up a woman who tossed herself down the stairs or inhaled a liter of Jack Daniels to kill the baby, but I've wondered about that explanation. Stress can biologically fuck some people up, and there are some women who just do not handle pregnancy well.

Is a baby better off not being born at all than borne of biological resentment if indeed there is such a thing?

 

[The Final Troondown]

Tbf the prolife position just seems retarded to me.
It basically guarantees increasing the tax burden to lay for people who aren't your problem - I don't see how this makes these fetuses anything other than asylum seekers

The whole responsibility argument also struck me as backwards too - imagine you're in the kitchen and drop a jar of sauce that smashes all over the floor; which seems more responsible, to clean it up or just say 'oh well I guess it's happened now' and leave it to fester all over the floor
These arguments about taking responsibility always seem to originate from people lacking the fortitude to admit killing can actually be a solution

It's very soy

And as I've explained it doesnt, and even your rewrite is completely wrong. You arent allowed to drink and drive because that has a high chance in your freedom resulting in my death. You can't shoot guns in public because that can result in my death. You can't light your own house on fire because that can result in my death. There is a lot of shit you arent allowed to do because the right to life trumps that.

Does this not just result in the lowest common denominator determining policy though? Why should skilled drunken drivers or public shooters be punished because of the inept?

Make it a crime instead to shoot someone in public or crash while drunk

Honestly this puic fear is unbecoming

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

I'm okay with abortion in a few circumstances, but almost every pro-choice person I see who gives more of a shit about this topic than I do are easily the second most intellectually dishonest cunts imaginable in any political discussion, beaten out only by gun control advocates. Either that, or they're disgusting, whorish, petty, third wave feminists who would carry a pregnancy through two trimesters and abort it for the sole purpose of spiting the Alabama State Government, and would then make an instagram album about how they're shattering the patriarchy.

Legalize abortion, but call it what it is, killing a kid. No autistic splitting of hairs about how a fetus isn't a child. You fucking know it is, just be honest.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

We should offer sterilization to Blacks in exchange for $1000 cash.

They're stupid enough that they'll go for it (not realizing the lost future earnings from welfare payments for kids) and it'll prevent the need for any abortions.

 

[A Hot Potato]

I go a little more sterile everytime this thread is bumped.

 

[ProgKing of the North]

Abortion is literally not murder. Murder is defined as

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

and yet abortion is lawful. If it’s lawful, it can’t be murder.

 

[Sweetpeaa]

Low birthrates and abortion are actually a threat to capitalist economies. The higher ups know this which is why they're imposing these sudden ''bans'' and heavy restrictions. They have tried to supplement falling birthrate with immigration but that hasn't worked.

You can feel free to disagree with me but it's not a far off theory. Especially since some U.S states are also banning (or in the process of banning) all hormonal birth control and IUD's. There seems to be desired ''baby boom''.

 

[ADHD]

Especially since some U.S states are also banning (or in the process of banning) all hormonal birth control and IUD's.

Which states?

 

[Sweetpeaa]

Which states?

Ohio. I have to do more reading on the others. It could be Utah as well.

 

[Sweetpeaa]

For religious people in the USA or elsewhere I should say Christianity doesn't really have a problem with abortion. Maybe they haven't read their bible close enough. Just like there is nothing in the Quran about a head scarf or full body covering for a woman. So what is up with that anyway?

 

[Jack Haywood]

I accept abortion as a necessity in an imperfect world, but in an ideal world where both man-made and natural evil was reduced to its minimum degree possible, it wouldn't be necessary. It's something to be avoided where humanly possible, by using contraception or abstinence or engaging in non-PIV sexual acts.

I'm a very family-oriented person and I am quite traditionalist in seeing a lifetime marriage, a family unit with multiple children as a very great thing for almost all humans to work towards.

(I'm not one of those people who minds gay marriage or gay adoption though. I don't really get homosexuality but I hold nothing against it or homosexuals.)

In terms of law rather than morality, I would say the minimum restriction on abortion has to be after the first trimester. Between 12 weeks to being able to survive if it was born premature, its a grey area. After its able to function independently in the womb, it's murder. The only exceptions I would accept is risk to the mother's health or life.

 

[Sweetpeaa]

I accept abortion as a necessity in an imperfect world, but in an ideal world where both man-made and natural evil was reduced to its minimum degree possible, it wouldn't be necessary. It's something to be avoided where humanly possible, by using contraception or abstinence or engaging in non-PIV sexual acts.

I'm a very family-oriented person and I am quite traditionalist in seeing a lifetime marriage, a family unit with multiple children as a very great thing for almost all humans to work towards.

(I'm not one of those people who minds gay marriage or gay adoption though. I don't really get homosexuality but I hold nothing against it or homosexuals.)

In terms of law rather than morality, I would say the minimum restriction on abortion has to be after the first trimester. Between 12 weeks to being able to survive if it was born premature, its a gray area. After its able to function independently in the womb, it's murder. The only exceptions I would accept is risk to the mother's health or life.

The earliest a fetus can survive is 21 weeks and that's pushing it. No fetus has ever survived at 12 weeks.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The earliest a fetus can survive is 21 weeks and that's pushing it. No fetus has ever survived at 12 weeks.

Why do people care about the point of viability? Mist pro-choice want that baby killable until the damn cord is cut, and maybe after if possible. Most pro-lifers acknowledge the scientific fact that life starts at conception and oppose ending that life at any point.

Viability, consciousness, ability to feel pain--it's all just bullshit talking points for arbitrarily justifying abortion. As if baby killers would just go "well gee golly, it's proven to feel pain, let's end our war we've fought to kill babies".

It's all so disingenuous and pointless.

 

[Jack Haywood]

Why do people care about the point of viability? Mist pro-choice want that baby killable until the damn cord is cut, and maybe after if possible. Most pro-lifers acknowledge the scientific fact that life starts at conception and oppose ending that life at any point.

Viability, consciousness, ability to feel pain--it's all just bullshit talking points for arbitrarily justifying abortion. As if baby killers would just go "well gee golly, it's proven to feel pain, let's end our war we've fought to kill babies".

It's all so disingenuous and pointless.

I think you need to accept that we don't live in some kind of heavenly wonderland where abortion isn't a necessity in very serious situations: i.e. reality. If you want those aborted babies to end up in the foster system without its original parents or abused/neglected or be unable to contribute anything to society or without the possibility of a good quality of life due to serious physical/mental illnesses or disabilities or grow up to become hardened criminals, be my guest.

Your emotionalism is getting in the way of pragmatism. That didn't end well for Corbynites in the UK or Trumpists in the USA and it won't end well for you either.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

I think you need to accept that we don't live in some kind of heavenly wonderland where abortion isn't a necessity in very serious situations: i.e. reality. If you want those aborted babies to end up in the foster system without its original parents or abused/neglected or be unable to contribute anything to society or without the possibility of a good quality of life due to serious physical/mental illnesses or disabilities or grow up to become hardened criminals, be my guest.

Your emotionalism is getting in the way of pragmatism. That didn't end well for Corbynites in the UK or Trumpists in the USA and it won't end well for you either.

So since they may end up abused in foster care they're better off getting killed? Or because they may be disabled?

Your side makes good arguments but not in the way you think. Just keep talking and you'll drive people to pro-life.