Xbox Game Studios Stupidity Hate Thread Game Pass Edition

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There's very high odds that changes. Bethesda takes way too long to make a game and Asha Sharma (Blessed be her holy name) said she wants it to be a core of the Xbox brand along side the Elder Scrolls and Halo.
Handing off a New Vegas remake to a different studio would be the best outcome, but I dunno what contemporary studio would be capable of not fucking it up.

Maybe Night Dive? People didn't seem happy with System Shock though.
 
Handing off a New Vegas remake to a different studio would be the best outcome, but I dunno what contemporary studio would be capable of not fucking it up.

Maybe Night Dive? People didn't seem happy with System Shock though.
Owlcat would follow the lore and setting very well, but they have never made a game like this before so I don't know if I would trust them fully with it.
 
Handing off a New Vegas remake to a different studio would be the best outcome, but I dunno what contemporary studio would be capable of not fucking it up.

Maybe Night Dive? People didn't seem happy with System Shock though.
Either Owlcat or Larian but Sven has said in a bunch of interviews that working with Wizards Of The Coast and dealing with their retardation drained his sanity meter to zero and he's not interested in working on outside IPs anymore after BGS3.
 
There's very high odds that changes. Bethesda takes way too long to make a game and Asha Sharma (Blessed be her holy name) said she wants it to be a core of the Xbox brand along side the Elder Scrolls and Halo.
Nothing can save Bethesda. The only talent that works there know of one very outdate engine and little more. Todd's direction has failed to futureproof the studio.

Handing off a New Vegas remake to a different studio would be the best outcome, but I dunno what contemporary studio would be capable of not fucking it up.

Maybe Night Dive? People didn't seem happy with System Shock though.
New studio and new engine. I do not see who would want to have to deal with a Bethesda IP though. Can't use the original buggy code, most people had enough of them and Skyrim and F4 are enough for most fans.

Owlcat would follow the lore and setting very well, but they have never made a game like this before so I don't know if I would trust them fully with it.
Could work out but still their own original IPs are a better choice.

Either Owlcat or Larian but Sven has said in a bunch of interviews that working with Wizards Of The Coast and dealing with their retardation drained his sanity meter to zero and he's not interested in working on outside IPs anymore after BGS3.
Can't blame them. WOTC are one of the most retarded IP holders in the world.
 
lmao

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There is no situation in which Game Pass works. Either they dump a ton of money to get good games for it at a pretty good clip, and thus make it into a money furnace because no amount of subs can sustain it, or get a big library by filling it up with cheap slop, but then nobody gets it because headliners are few and far between.
 
I think Game Pass could have worked if they hadn't been so gung-ho about day 1 games. Realistically the only people who care about playing a game on the day of release would probably buy it; everyone else is content to wait til it goes on sale.

If it had been a significantly cheaper subscription to access the full 360 library and had the EA/Ubisoft add-on tiers it could have been a decent little side hustle, but putting all the Xbox eggs in the Game Pass basket was beyond retarded because all it did was devalue every big IP Phil had spent billions acquiring.

It also has the same problem as every other subscription service in that it can't be infinitely scaled. Eventually everyone who wants it is gonna have it, so monthly revenue plateaus while the costs of producing/acquiring new games keep rising.
 
I mean, that applies to the XBox brand as a whole.

Sometime in the past decade both Sony and MicroSoft forgot they're in the business of selling games. Better hardware is a plus, but the end user could give less of a shit about Aloy's peach fuzz being rendered on her chubby, avocado face so long as the game is good, runs well and isn't an assault on the senses.

Nintendo keeps printing money despite relying on much weaker hardware, and the simple reason is that they have a strong library of exclusives that people want to play (or at least used to, until recently).

Meanwhile, Sony went and gutted their first-party studios, reducing them to a few monolithic Western teams that all churn out the same kind of game, and require a whole console generation to do so. Long gone is the PS1, PS2 and PS3 era of unique and quirky experiences that you couldn't find anywhere else.

MicroSoft went to the other extreme, they bought up a bunch of once-good studios with the hope that at least a few of them would shit out something worthwhile, but also mandated and encouraged those same studios to hire people that hate the audience and to make games that are actively repulsive to the vast majority of consumers. They had all these quirky chungus titles that nobody wanted because they were made by gay race communism for a nonexistent audience.

Eventually both companies coalesced to the same spot, they had no games anyone wanted to play, and more importantly, are unable to make games people want to play.
 
Sometime in the past decade both Sony and MicroSoft forgot they're in the business of selling games. Better hardware is a plus, but the end user could give less of a shit about Aloy's peach fuzz being rendered on her chubby, avocado face so long as the game is good, runs well and isn't an assault on the senses.
Stylized games look better, are future proofed visually and require less powerful hardware. I think that the cult of the graphics has ruined gaming. Everyone is looking for games that have realistic graphics that will look outdated in 5 years and I think that isn't optimal.

Nintendo keeps printing money despite relying on much weaker hardware, and the simple reason is that they have a strong library of exclusives that people want to play (or at least used to, until recently).
They still do, just less so. They have the best strategy of the console maker: making good games. Unfortunately, they are kings purely because the other two shat the bed. What made Nintendo good has greatly diminished.

Meanwhile, Sony went and gutted their first-party studios, reducing them to a few monolithic Western teams that all churn out the same kind of game, and require a whole console generation to do so. Long gone is the PS1, PS2 and PS3 era of unique and quirky experiences that you couldn't find anywhere else.
Amen to that. Sony landed themselves some idiots that ruined the company. I recall the "weak link" speech from The Prince of Egypt. Sony had a bad hand with their increased arrogance and stupid leadership.

MicroSoft went to the other extreme, they bought up a bunch of once-good studios with the hope that at least a few of them would shit out something worthwhile, but also mandated and encouraged those same studios to hire people that hate the audience and to make games that are actively repulsive to the vast majority of consumers. They had all these quirky chungus titles that nobody wanted because they were made by gay race communism for a nonexistent audience.
They acquired hungry wolves, turned them into fat pugs and then complained that they do not chase as well anymore. They made them forget their hunger and that made them a bad investment. They should have kept them hungry.

Eventually both companies coalesced to the same spot, they had no games anyone wanted to play, and more importantly, are unable to make games people want to play.
The industry never relied on third parties this hard before.
 
Stylized games look better, are future proofed visually and require less powerful hardware. I think that the cult of the graphics has ruined gaming. Everyone is looking for games that have realistic graphics that will look outdated in 5 years and I think that isn't optimal.
I don't mind good graphics, but the issue for a long time now has been that developers have been facing diminishing returns, implementing fancy graphical features that most people wouldn't be able to notice unless the developers made a video pointing out all the sparkly new effects.

Instead of using the ever-increasing power of the hardware to create more more ambitious games, they've all become obsessed trying to turn games into photorealistic movies where gameplay, player agency, reactivity and everything else that makes games special and distinct from other entertainment mediums.

They still do, just less so. They have the best strategy of the console maker: making good games. Unfortunately, they are kings purely because the other two shat the bed. What made Nintendo good has greatly diminished.
Agree fully, and the only reason Sony and MS are still in business is that they're both so incompetent they are incapable of capitalizing on the fuckups of the other one. Long gone are the days of Sony announcing the price of the PS4 right after Microsoft's disastrous presentation, and then throwing more salt into the wound with the skit where the two Sony guys exchange a game disk.

Sony had a bad hand with their increased arrogance and stupid leadership.
And the kicker is that they keep doubling down on this. No sane company would let Hermen Hulst keep shitting out more Horizon slop, especially since nobody gives a fuck about that IP and never did.

They acquired hungry wolves, turned them into fat pugs and then complained that they do not chase as well anymore. They made them forget their hunger and that made them a bad investment. They should have kept them hungry.
To be fair, they mostly bought devs based on their previous reputation, without stopping to check if the people that actually made all the games the devs are famous for were still working at these companies.

Turns out it was not the case. Then again, Sony is no better, they spent 3.6 billion dollars to acquire a Bungie where nobody that was responsible for making Halo games great was still around.

If I was buying Obsidian the first thing I'd do during the audit was request a list of writers and their CVs. That would have quickly clued the MS corpos onto the fact that all the writers behind Alpha Protocol, Mask of the Betrayer, New Vegas, KOTOR II had left the company long ago, and had been replaced by dangerhairs.

A smarter move would have been to headhunt all the good former Obsidian writers and build a studio around them.

The industry never relied on third parties this hard before.
You look at the credits for a modern AAA turd, and it's an endless list of jeets, jeet sweatshops and jeet contractors.

Poo goblins all the way down.

I sometimes ask myself what all those hundreds of devs working at these studios even do when literally everything about the creation of the game is subcontracted to some shithole in India.
 
Sometime in the past decade both Sony and MicroSoft forgot they're in the business of selling games.
It will never happen but it would be interesting if Sony released modern versions of the PS2/3 consoles and either reprinted discs or made them digital-only but with every game in their respective libraries available for sale and see what the profits were like compared to the PS5 and its zero games.

Maybe I'm putting too much faith in the modern consumer though.
implementing fancy graphical features that most people wouldn't be able to notice
Or even access. I think my TV is capable of 4k but if it's ever been turned on in any of the games I've played on PS5 then I haven't noticed, and I doubt it has because I always select Performance Mode because otherwise the games run like total shit (and even in PM some aren't great).

I notice they don't bring up 8K much at all any more; I guess because you'd need a TV the same size as the wall it's mounted on to appreciate the difference.
 
I don't mind good graphics, but the issue for a long time now has been that developers have been facing diminishing returns, implementing fancy graphical features that most people wouldn't be able to notice unless the developers made a video pointing out all the sparkly new effects.

Instead of using the ever-increasing power of the hardware to create more more ambitious games, they've all become obsessed trying to turn games into photorealistic movies where gameplay, player agency, reactivity and everything else that makes games special and distinct from other entertainment mediums.
The graphics themselves are not always the issue. They are the cause of the issues. Good graphics have one problem inherent to them: They become outdated. As you said, those graphics cause power (and price) of hardware to increase while removing the things that make games great. Give me good graphics but not at the expense of the things that make games timeless. Graphics will look dated, gameplay is forever.

Agree fully, and the only reason Sony and MS are still in business is that they're both so incompetent they are incapable of capitalizing on the fuckups of the other one. Long gone are the days of Sony announcing the price of the PS4 right after Microsoft's disastrous presentation, and then throwing more salt into the wound with the skit where the two Sony guys exchange a game disk.
Exactly, though I will argue that Nintendo's long term strategy was always the more evergreen. Nintendo wants to make good, innovative games at a low cost. They don't follow that strategy as closely as they used to but it is still there at a diminished effect.

Sony's strategy was to rely on third parties. That meant that they accrued a lower cost at making games but their output depended almost entirely on others. When the entire industry decided to spend half a decade to make a single game by each studio, the flaws of that strategy became apparent. Add how the industry alienated the audience with woke politics and you get a massive problem for Sony.

Microsoft's strategy was non-existent, at least long term. Each console generation had its own half-assed, poorly implemented strategy. Xbox: easy to port PC games. 360: really cheap hardware. One: TV, TV, TV, TV, Kinect. Series: buy studios and hope games spontaneously manifest because otherwise the Xbox brand is fucked. Also Game Pass (which destroys the idea of sales).
 
The graphics themselves are not always the issue. They are the cause of the issues. Good graphics have one problem inherent to them: They become outdated. As you said, those graphics cause power (and price) of hardware to increase while removing the things that make games great. Give me good graphics but not at the expense of the things that make games timeless. Graphics will look dated, gameplay is forever.
I'd argue that it's not just that they become outdated, but just how many resources need to be diverted to the graphics when working on high-fidelity games.

When playing through a game with demanding graphics I sometimes stop in a random room and contemplate just how many man-hours it has taken the developers to design the room, the props, the textures, lighting et al, and all for an environment the player will likely spend a scant few seconds in. And the problem is that it must look convincing because it would ruin the experience otherwise.

It's why, just like you said, highly stylized graphics always win in the end. Megaman Legends looks as timeless today as it looked when it released, Jagged Alliance 2 will look just as good in another 20 years, but we'll look back to the likes of TLOU2 and wonder why anyone ever bothered to praise its for their graphics.

And not just that, but with stylized, lo-fi graphics you can iterate on things faster. A character doesn't mesh well with the rest of the cast? Creating a new one is going to be very fast, compared to a modern game where they need to call in another actor, go through the whole bodyscanning, have him mocap the animations (because that's apparently something they insist on doing now), plus all the other insane tech that goes into implementing a new model - from simulating musculature, to body textures, lighting, hair, and all needing to be QA in minute detail to make sure they missed nothing.

Now apply the same kind of logic to every single other asset in the game.

Same thing, in general, applies to cutscenes. What was once considered bleeding-edge CGI, like those in Final Fantasy VII or Starcraft, nowadays look very silly and outdated, while the 2D animated cutscenes of Myth will always look good (barring the dogshit compression they were shipped with).

Exactly, though I will argue that Nintendo's long term strategy was always the more evergreen. Nintendo wants to make good, innovative games at a low cost. They don't follow that strategy as closely as they used to but it is still there at a diminished effect.
Nintendo also didn't obliterate their internal/first-party development teams, or first-party developers, like Sony did.

They've still managed to retain the institutional knowledge and experience necessary to make solid games. Not everything they make is a banger, but the number of in-house Nintendo games that turn out to be duds is small, and you can usually trust that the game you purchase will at worst be competent.

Microsoft's strategy was non-existent, at least long term. Each console generation had its own half-assed, poorly implemented strategy. Xbox: easy to port PC games. 360: really cheap hardware. One: TV, TV, TV, TV, Kinect. Series: buy studios and hope games spontaneously manifest because otherwise the Xbox brand is fucked. Also Game Pass (which destroys the idea of sales).
Pretty much, yeah. They never seemed to have a good idea on what to do, and each new console generation they seemed to forget the lessons from the previous one.

The Xbox One is also where the brand pretty much died. Once people began to switch to digital purchases, they were basically locked-in to that platform, since starting over would have been very expensive and painful.
 
I'd argue that it's not just that they become outdated, but just how many resources need to be diverted to the graphics when working on high-fidelity games.

When playing through a game with demanding graphics I sometimes stop in a random room and contemplate just how many man-hours it has taken the developers to design the room, the props, the textures, lighting et al, and all for an environment the player will likely spend a scant few seconds in. And the problem is that it must look convincing because it would ruin the experience otherwise.

It's why, just like you said, highly stylized graphics always win in the end. Megaman Legends looks as timeless today as it looked when it released, Jagged Alliance 2 will look just as good in another 20 years, but we'll look back to the likes of TLOU2 and wonder why anyone ever bothered to praise its for their graphics.

And not just that, but with stylized, lo-fi graphics you can iterate on things faster. A character doesn't mesh well with the rest of the cast? Creating a new one is going to be very fast, compared to a modern game where they need to call in another actor, go through the whole bodyscanning, have him mocap the animations (because that's apparently something they insist on doing now), plus all the other insane tech that goes into implementing a new model - from simulating musculature, to body textures, lighting, hair, and all needing to be QA in minute detail to make sure they missed nothing.

Now apply the same kind of logic to every single other asset in the game.

Same thing, in general, applies to cutscenes. What was once considered bleeding-edge CGI, like those in Final Fantasy VII or Starcraft, nowadays look very silly and outdated, while the 2D animated cutscenes of Myth will always look good (barring the dogshit compression they were shipped with).
We are literally saying the same thing.

Glad we agree.

Nintendo also didn't obliterate their internal/first-party development teams, or first-party developers, like Sony did.

They've still managed to retain the institutional knowledge and experience necessary to make solid games. Not everything they make is a banger, but the number of in-house Nintendo games that turn out to be duds is small, and you can usually trust that the game you purchase will at worst be competent.
As a guy who played Pokemon since Gen 3, do not expect everything to be made competently. However, even the Pokemon games that are buggy have heart. Heart is what separates a Nintendo game from every other.

Pretty much, yeah. They never seemed to have a good idea on what to do, and each new console generation they seemed to forget the lessons from the previous one.

The Xbox One is also where the brand pretty much died. Once people began to switch to digital purchases, they were basically locked-in to that platform, since starting over would have been very expensive and painful.
MS thought they would destroy the competition by throwing enough money at the problem. They were proven wrong. All the Xbox ever accomplished was waste money.
 
I don't mind good graphics, but the issue for a long time now has been that developers have been facing diminishing returns, implementing fancy graphical features that most people wouldn't be able to notice unless the developers made a video pointing out all the sparkly new effects.
X4 Foundations is as beautiful as any game ever needs to get (barring the character models, which are, in true Egosoft tradition, genuinely and comically hideous). Any attempt to add further visual detail/noise to a sci-fi setting than X4 has is a waste of technology and creative energy that should be devoted to 1) new ship/model designs, 2) new station/model designs, 3) new weapon/model designs, or 4) new module/model designs. Emulate what X4 does in terms of sci-fi machinery and ship detail, and do no more.

Character design peaked at Soul Caliber with giant-tittied Taki and Ivy along with their jiggle physics and Dead or Alive's also-ran efforts with their jiggle physics. Emulate them. Do no more. Endless big-titted goth girls and ninjas, and flat-chested Marie Rose sexpots, and you're good for eye candy forever.

Environmental design peaked with Far Cry 4/5 and Far Cry Primal. That visual fidelity is more than you ever really need for a "natural" world environment. Emulate it. Do no more.

Game devs need to stop inventing "more detailed visual shit" just because they can. They need to return to mish-mashing working kits together to make new things instead, and inventing "mechanics" to make their games interesting and unique.
 
Character design peaked at Soul Caliber with giant-tittied Taki and Ivy along with their jiggle physics and Dead or Alive's also-ran efforts with their jiggle physics. Emulate them. Do no more. Endless big-titted goth girls and ninjas, and flat-chested Marie Rose sexpots, and you're good for eye candy forever.
I liked where characters landed at with RE4, RE5, RE6 and Haunting Ground - most based on real models, but tweaked and stylized to avoid the uncanny valley, or looking like recognizable actors.

Fiona and Jill share the same face model, yet look distinct enough that you wouldn't mix one for the other (though that may also be because Fiona is meant to be a younger version of the model).

It also helps that Capcom was pretty good at character designs during that era.

Game devs need to stop inventing "more detailed visual shit" just because they can. They need to return to mish-mashing working kits together to make new things instead, and inventing "mechanics" to make their games interesting and unique.
The "funny" part is that adding more visual detail is usually detrimental to gameplay, as too much visual noise tends to make game environments difficult to parse and navigate, thus forcing devs to include very jarring hacks like adding yellow paint or floating markers everywhere to clue players in to what is interactable.
 
I liked where characters landed at with RE4, RE5, RE6 and Haunting Ground - most based on real models, but tweaked and stylized to avoid the uncanny valley, or looking like recognizable actors.
The PS2 hit the perfect balance for smooth models and visual clarity for environments imo. The PS1 was too jaggy with awful draw distance and the PS3 had good models but it was so hard to see through all the bloom, grain and piss filters they had to start putting yellow paint on everything just so you could tell where to go.

I'd be much happier playing a PS2-looking game with 4K resolution and locked 120fps in 2026 than having to run Silent Hill f in Performance Mode and still getting frame drops when too many monsters appear.
 
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