- Registrado
- 10 de Feb, 2015
Is it still a spectrum disorder when you cover the entire damn spectrum?
Autistic Culture Movement / Neurodiversity
- Iniciador del tema The Lizard Queen
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- Registrado
- 25 de Mar, 2015
Alright, I've literally only just read the OP, but... these guys compared charity groups like Autism Speaks to eugenics and genocide? Because they're trying to improve the lives of people that sometimes really need this treatment?
What the fuck, Internet?
Sooooooo after reading the first page, it occurs to me I might have inadvertently lent support to a shitty organization out of my ignorance.
My thoughts on the whole movement still stands, but I retract any goodwill I had for Autism Speaks.
What the fuck, Internet?
Sooooooo after reading the first page, it occurs to me I might have inadvertently lent support to a shitty organization out of my ignorance.
My thoughts on the whole movement still stands, but I retract any goodwill I had for Autism Speaks.
Última edición:
- Registrado
- 26 de Mar, 2014
I have a Facebook friend who is an autistic radical who makes posts about how refusing to give people eye contact is a radical act of liberation. I'll find some of his more lulzier posts when I'm on my laptop later today
- Registrado
- 25 de Mar, 2015
Whoooo. That was quite the speedread. 13 pages, the Farms never disappoint.
Right.
So, when I was reading the first few pages, I was kinda planning out how I'd respond, and basically the first draft of this post was a long winded power level that would've made OPL snore, so for the sake of brevity and to not insult anyone's intelligence, here's a more concise breakdown of what I wanted to say.
1) @Connor Bible's an idiot.
No comment. Moving on.
2) Autism is, in fact, a problem for some people and a cure is not a bad thing.
This is where the power leveling came in, as this is actually a very personal issue to me, but this isn't Life Stories, the Thread and I'm sure 99% don't give a fuck. Basically, people would benefit from this in some way and anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
3) Autism does not define you.
Or if it does, then you have serious issues. I see people that define themselves on their autism as using it as a crutch. There are many aspects of someone's life that you could choose to identify yourself as, so why in the nine fucking hells would you pick the one that people normally associate with mental disorders and social awkwardness?
So yeah, there we go.
Also, @Connor Bible, I like everyone here enough to not fill the topic with my sperging, but if you insist on carrying on that idiotic tangent of yours again, I'd be more than happy to reply in PM so I can say, in all fullness, why exactly what you say is offensive to me on a personal level and why exactly I think that it's probably one of the dumbest things I have seen all week.
PS If you actually used your time incoherently rambling in this thread to do something productive, you could have written seven book reports by now.
EDIT in light of Champthom's post which made me look back on mine and the way I worded one of the statements made it seem like an overgeneralization, so I added a small little thing for clarification.
Champthom is also awesome.
Right.
So, when I was reading the first few pages, I was kinda planning out how I'd respond, and basically the first draft of this post was a long winded power level that would've made OPL snore, so for the sake of brevity and to not insult anyone's intelligence, here's a more concise breakdown of what I wanted to say.
1) @Connor Bible's an idiot.
No comment. Moving on.
2) Autism is, in fact, a problem for some people and a cure is not a bad thing.
This is where the power leveling came in, as this is actually a very personal issue to me, but this isn't Life Stories, the Thread and I'm sure 99% don't give a fuck. Basically, people would benefit from this in some way and anyone who says otherwise is delusional.
3) Autism does not define you.
Or if it does, then you have serious issues. I see people that define themselves on their autism as using it as a crutch. There are many aspects of someone's life that you could choose to identify yourself as, so why in the nine fucking hells would you pick the one that people normally associate with mental disorders and social awkwardness?
So yeah, there we go.
Also, @Connor Bible, I like everyone here enough to not fill the topic with my sperging, but if you insist on carrying on that idiotic tangent of yours again, I'd be more than happy to reply in PM so I can say, in all fullness, why exactly what you say is offensive to me on a personal level and why exactly I think that it's probably one of the dumbest things I have seen all week.
PS If you actually used your time incoherently rambling in this thread to do something productive, you could have written seven book reports by now.
EDIT in light of Champthom's post which made me look back on mine and the way I worded one of the statements made it seem like an overgeneralization, so I added a small little thing for clarification.
Champthom is also awesome.
Última edición:
- Registrado
- 18 de Ene, 2015
Not going to sperg out to much here but having a part of the population that does not reproduce but is still capable of taking care of children is often beneficial from a biological standpoint. Especially if the child is as resource consuming as a human child.
- Registrado
- 30 de Ene, 2013
Believe it or not, I can sorta sympathize with the neurodiversity. I think people tend not to realize that you can live a perfectly fulfilling life with autism if you get the right kind of support networks going on. I realize that on our forums, we tend to see pretty much worst case scenario autistics who obsesses over batshit insane stuff and have crazy fetishes and the media tends to focus on autistics who are catatonic and stare at walls all day giggling. But there's tons of people in between who are probably less functioning compared to neurotypicals but higher functioning than the people who are catatonic and they just have personality quirks that put people off and tend to be socially inept. Take Temple Grandin - she has autism, her autistic obsession is cattle behavior, but she was able to channel that into getting a PhD and actually becoming the expert for that that helped design more humane and efficient ways to slaughter cattle. I have a friend with Asperger's - she has trouble with various life skills, like she has a social worker who tells her when to clean her apartment, she's a big Doctor Who fan and she likes writing horror fiction, and she loves cooking and baking. She's decided to go to school for baking and she's gotten a job at a cafe that helps disabled people get jobs and working experience and she loves that she can practice things she learns in school there. It's anecdotal evidence but the point is, these people are living perfectly fulfilling lives. They might not work a 9-5 job and live a "normal" life but what's normal anymore anyways?
I think the most apt explanation of autism is that it's a completely different OS - neurotypical is just Windows and autism is like a crazy Linux distro that's hard to use. But it's not impossible to do the same stuff as Windows, it just takes practice and time to figure out how to accommodate.
I'm inclined to disagree that there's a specific "autism culture." I went to college with a significant deaf population and I was pretty surprised to hear about deaf culture - deaf people have their own little ways of doing things like talking to other people in a car (remember, you have to sign), they have their own slang and there are ways to show sarcasm in sign language, and there's etiquette (if you have to walk through two deaf people talking to each other/signing, that's fine as it looks really weird if you try and go around them). I'm not sure if autistic people have really developed that depth of a culture.
I'm really not crazy about efforts to eliminate a cure for autism. Like I said, I think it's possible to live a fulfilling life with autism, but I think if people do want to cure themselves of it, they should be given the chance. There are probably deaf people who want to hear and get things like cochlear implants but there are also deaf people who feel that they can live fulfilling lives without their ability to hear, that it's part of their identity, and they're able to get by without it. I remember hearing that a lot of paralyzed people in wheelchairs hated Christopher Reeves as he was obsessed about finding "the cure" when they felt they were able to live even in a wheelchair.
Something that's bothered me about Autism Speaks and a lot of the autism awareness isn't that it's autistic people complaining about how much autism sucks but it's parents who are complaining how hard it is to raise a child with autism and how they'll never be "normal." I can see that it would be challenging but c'mon, just because they don't pick up on certain things doesn't mean they'll never do anything interesting in their lives.
If those parents put the energy they take trying to "cure" their children with crazy stuff like bleach enemeas or raving about vacinnes instead of trying to find out what autism actually entails and figuring out what's going on in their child's mind, they might realize that it's not an impossible task. As long as they don't spoil their kids with lots of toys and video games, mainstream them and go on about crazy conspiracy theories about how the school is after them and accept when their child goes on a love quest with a shitty Sonichu recolor, they'll have done pretty well
.
I think the most apt explanation of autism is that it's a completely different OS - neurotypical is just Windows and autism is like a crazy Linux distro that's hard to use. But it's not impossible to do the same stuff as Windows, it just takes practice and time to figure out how to accommodate.
I'm inclined to disagree that there's a specific "autism culture." I went to college with a significant deaf population and I was pretty surprised to hear about deaf culture - deaf people have their own little ways of doing things like talking to other people in a car (remember, you have to sign), they have their own slang and there are ways to show sarcasm in sign language, and there's etiquette (if you have to walk through two deaf people talking to each other/signing, that's fine as it looks really weird if you try and go around them). I'm not sure if autistic people have really developed that depth of a culture.
I'm really not crazy about efforts to eliminate a cure for autism. Like I said, I think it's possible to live a fulfilling life with autism, but I think if people do want to cure themselves of it, they should be given the chance. There are probably deaf people who want to hear and get things like cochlear implants but there are also deaf people who feel that they can live fulfilling lives without their ability to hear, that it's part of their identity, and they're able to get by without it. I remember hearing that a lot of paralyzed people in wheelchairs hated Christopher Reeves as he was obsessed about finding "the cure" when they felt they were able to live even in a wheelchair.
Something that's bothered me about Autism Speaks and a lot of the autism awareness isn't that it's autistic people complaining about how much autism sucks but it's parents who are complaining how hard it is to raise a child with autism and how they'll never be "normal." I can see that it would be challenging but c'mon, just because they don't pick up on certain things doesn't mean they'll never do anything interesting in their lives.
If those parents put the energy they take trying to "cure" their children with crazy stuff like bleach enemeas or raving about vacinnes instead of trying to find out what autism actually entails and figuring out what's going on in their child's mind, they might realize that it's not an impossible task. As long as they don't spoil their kids with lots of toys and video games, mainstream them and go on about crazy conspiracy theories about how the school is after them and accept when their child goes on a love quest with a shitty Sonichu recolor, they'll have done pretty well
.
- Registrado
- 23 de Jun, 2013
Isn't arguing about the desirability of a "cure" for autism kind of pointless, given that autism is not curable?
- Registrado
- 27 de Mayo, 2015
Believe it or not, I can sorta sympathize with the neurodiversity. I think people tend not to realize that you can live a perfectly fulfilling life with autism if you get the right kind of support networks going on. I realize that on our forums, we tend to see pretty much worst case scenario autistics who obsesses over batshit insane stuff and have crazy fetishes and the media tends to focus on autistics who are catatonic and stare at walls all day giggling. But there's tons of people in between who are probably less functioning compared to neurotypicals but higher functioning than the people who are catatonic and they just have personality quirks that put people off and tend to be socially inept. Take Temple Grandin - she has autism, her autistic obsession is cattle behavior, but she was able to channel that into getting a PhD and actually becoming the expert for that that helped design more humane and efficient ways to slaughter cattle. I have a friend with Asperger's - she has trouble with various life skills, like she has a social worker who tells her when to clean her apartment, she's a big Doctor Who fan and she likes writing horror fiction, and she loves cooking and baking. She's decided to go to school for baking and she's gotten a job at a cafe that helps disabled people get jobs and working experience and she loves that she can practice things she learns in school there. It's anecdotal evidence but the point is, these people are living perfectly fulfilling lives. They might not work a 9-5 job and live a "normal" life but what's normal anymore anyways?
I think the most apt explanation of autism is that it's a completely different OS - neurotypical is just Windows and autism is like a crazy Linux distro that's hard to use. But it's not impossible to do the same stuff as Windows, it just takes practice and time to figure out how to accommodate.
I'm inclined to disagree that there's a specific "autism culture." I went to college with a significant deaf population and I was pretty surprised to hear about deaf culture - deaf people have their own little ways of doing things like talking to other people in a car (remember, you have to sign), they have their own slang and there are ways to show sarcasm in sign language, and there's etiquette (if you have to walk through two deaf people talking to each other/signing, that's fine as it looks really weird if you try and go around them). I'm not sure if autistic people have really developed that depth of a culture.
I'm really not crazy about efforts to eliminate a cure for autism. Like I said, I think it's possible to live a fulfilling life with autism, but I think if people do want to cure themselves of it, they should be given the chance. There are probably deaf people who want to hear and get things like cochlear implants but there are also deaf people who feel that they can live fulfilling lives without their ability to hear, that it's part of their identity, and they're able to get by without it. I remember hearing that a lot of paralyzed people in wheelchairs hated Christopher Reeves as he was obsessed about finding "the cure" when they felt they were able to live even in a wheelchair.
Something that's bothered me about Autism Speaks and a lot of the autism awareness isn't that it's autistic people complaining about how much autism sucks but it's parents who are complaining how hard it is to raise a child with autism and how they'll never be "normal." I can see that it would be challenging but c'mon, just because they don't pick up on certain things doesn't mean they'll never do anything interesting in their lives.
If those parents put the energy they take trying to "cure" their children with crazy stuff like bleach enemeas or raving about vacinnes instead of trying to find out what autism actually entails and figuring out what's going on in their child's mind, they might realize that it's not an impossible task. As long as they don't spoil their kids with lots of toys and video games, mainstream them and go on about crazy conspiracy theories about how the school is after them and accept when their child goes on a love quest with a shitty Sonichu recolor, they'll have done pretty well
Well said, sir! The most intelligent man and greatest illustrator I have the honour to know, Mr Colin Barr, is also autistic.
His "obsession focus" is intense visual detail and categorising the pens and tools for inking. He is damn near genius level.
I am totally in support of seeing severe autistic folk have a normal life, through a cure if that becomes possible.
But if those souls with functioning autism wish to remain as they are, then their choice must be respected.
It is quirks that make life interesting. But when a person is suffering, help should be offered.
- Registrado
- 15 de Feb, 2013
That seems to be the heart of the problem: they don't think about anyone else but themselves. Maybe they can't. Maybe they're unable to put themselves into the shoes of the seven-year-old who doesn't speak, refuses to wear clothes and can't control his bowels (not Chris, shut up) or the parents who have to corral him 24/7.
- Registrado
- 25 de Oct, 2014
Godwin's Law, Connor. Godwin's fucking law.
Watch out for the Autistocaust everyone.
- Registrado
- 18 de Sep, 2014
I really don't get this reasoning.
Why would "curing" autism remove the human genius? Why would it remove diversity?
Are we really arguing that non-autistics are uncapable of being geniuses?
Also, for fucks sake, stop bringing up shit like "Einstein was autistic, Michelangelo was autistic, Da Vinci was autistic" etc.
Autism was not diagnosed back then. We have no way to know if those people really had it.
And no. Having a great ability to focus on something and being good at math does NOT mean you're autistic.
Why would "curing" autism remove the human genius? Why would it remove diversity?
Are we really arguing that non-autistics are uncapable of being geniuses?
Also, for fucks sake, stop bringing up shit like "Einstein was autistic, Michelangelo was autistic, Da Vinci was autistic" etc.
Autism was not diagnosed back then. We have no way to know if those people really had it.
And no. Having a great ability to focus on something and being good at math does NOT mean you're autistic.
- Registrado
- 29 de Abr, 2015
In Einstein's case they didn't make that up. Cambridge professors said that he might have had Aspergers because of how he acted during his childhood.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2988647.stm
- Registrado
- 10 de Abr, 2013
Kind of ridiculous to call a speculative cure "genocide." Anyone that into trains needs a cure for it.
- Registrado
- 18 de Sep, 2014
Well, good for him. He actually used his "autistic superpowers" for good instead of evil. (Altho... if we talk about Nuclear... maybe not)
I still find it ridiculous to say that only autistics have this fabled 0, 1% chance of being geniuses.
Especially considering the symptoms of this sprectrum are so broad... that hell anyone could have autism. Most teenagers have problems making friends, having eye contact, reading other people intentions, or getting china. We call them "nerds", not "autistics".
- Registrado
- 4 de Feb, 2013
I am just curious: have any of you guys ever heard of Johnathon Mitchell? He is someone with high functioning autism that advocates for a cure and a huge opponent of the neurodiversity movement.
And here is his blog:
http://autismgadfly.blogspot.com/
And here is his blog:
http://autismgadfly.blogspot.com/
- Registrado
- 3 de Feb, 2013
You can't compare to homosexuality because homosexuality alone doesn't arrest your ability to perform competently in everyday life.
- Registrado
- 29 de Abr, 2015
Simple, they want a way to deal with the rotten hand life had dealt them. It gives them hope.
Of course you can still be successful even though you have autism. I want to see other autistics succeed. Too bad the whole thing turned into such an egofest.
- Registrado
- 18 de Sep, 2014
Homosexuality just means you like pickles instead of china, or viceversa.
It's not a disorder, in the same way i'm not ill for liking pizza over toast.