Science Abortions are for everyone – it’s time for fully inclusive services - Abortions4All - ITT: arguments for post-birth abortion

A conversation on how we think about abortion access and how inclusive our services are is long over due. For far too long, the abortion movement has championed access for all those that require abortion care but with little acknowledgement of the wider structures that govern our reproductive health.

While it is estimated that a quarter of all pregnancies end in abortion – the idea that abortion is always a clear choice is far too simplistic and minimises the experiences of lots of those seeking abortion care. Recent Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) data revealed that black women are more likely to report a consecutive abortion compared to their white and Asian counterparts.

While the difference is small, there are many reasons for this that typical pro-choice narratives simply fail to address. Those racialised as non-white are likely to be paid 10% less than their white counterparts even when educational attainment is adjusted for. Black women are at heightened risk of experiencing intimate partner violence and less likely to receive adequate support when they do report it.


Black motherhood is plagued with sterotypes of young black teenage mothers who are incompetent or dependent on governement welfare. A recent report into maternal deaths within the UK revealed that black women are five times more likely than their white counterparts to die in childbirth and black babies are more likely to be stillborn. These statistics are not clearly explained by increased comorbidities (the presence of more than one disorder in the same person) or socio-economic conditions amongst black people. A recent Royal College of Obstetric and Gynaecology event highlighted how prejudice and unconscious bias affects the healthcare provided to black patients, including having their pain taken less seriously.

For many black women, becoming pregnant goes beyond traditional anxieties like “how will I cope?” Instead, some consider the rather traumatic question: “Could I die?”

The circumstances for gender non-conforming people is even more bleak with very few medical studies on their experiences of accessing healthcare. In one small study, the majority of respondents were not using contraception, as they incorrectly believed that gender-affirming hormones would also act as contraception, leaving them at possible risk of unplanned pregnancy. While data from the US shows that poor reproductive health is even greater among black trans and non-binary people, with significant rates of sexually transmitted infections and HIV; there is very little information on their experiences of accessing healthcare within a UK context.

It is difficult to determine how many gender non-conforming people are accessing abortion services as the current Department of Health reporting forms fail to include a box that collects gender information. However, the same form still includes a section on marital status, which is as useful as my passport has proven to be in 2020. Despite limited public health data, we do know that trans and non-binary people have poor sexual and reproductive health, but our institutions still treat this population as if they do not exist. How can you advocate for service improvement for populations that are not recorded as existing in the first place?

William Horn, a freelance writer who was originally based in London but now lives in Brooklyn, started taking gender affirming hormones nearly 10 years ago. He told me he feels that healthcare providers fail to consider anything outside of taking hormones.

Frequently, arguments against trans inclusive facilities position trans people as a threat to our safety – despite the data actually showing that cis-gender people continue to be much more of a threat to theirs. For those trans men and non-binary people who do continue with their pregnancy, there is little medical information available and many experience transphobia and erasure from services. There is an increase in intimate partner violence experienced by pregnant people, so we as providers should consider the additional mental burden that continuing with a pregnancy may take on those that already live in a world where survival can be a challenge.

The idea that individuals choose to have an abortion is outdated and fails to account for the structural dimensions that can lead some groups to have an one. Until we start to both acknowledge and understand these within our healthcare system, our abortion services will continue to overlook large groups of people and fail to take a holistic approach to their life circumstances.

In the United States, more providers are familiar with terms such as reproductive justice, a term coined by women of colour to highlight how structural oppression affects reproductive health – the application to the UK continues to lag behind. Recent Black Lives Matter protests where black pregnant women hold signs expressing their concern for the safety of their unborn child has brought to the fore how these issues overlap and intersect; we can longer address them in isolation.

Mara Clarke founder of the Abortion Support Network, an organisation that ensures those that require an abortion have access to the financial means to do so, says: “We know that many of our clients have been migrants, refugees, asylum seekers, members of the Irish traveller community. We don’t ask our clients who they are or how they got pregnant. We don’t ask if they are women or what their gender identity is. We don’t care, and we know that women and pregnant people with money can access services without having to explain or justify themselves. As an abortion fund, we want any person who needs an abortion to have that same experience.

While many in the sector are starting to understand the importance of acknowledging the diverse experiences of abortion, it is integral to providing good quality care that we go a step further and demand better research, data collection and information on the experiences of those that are most marginalised by society.
It is time that we build our movements with diverse experiences in mind and it is time that our abortion services reflected the stories of the communities that we serve.
 
No, pumpkin, I'm old enough to be your mother, and I get laid daily by my husband.

And by the way,that's MRS. Cheesegirl to you, asshat.

Got anything else, dumbass?
Name calling is what someone resorts to when they know their argument sucks or they have no argument.

Edit: I meant to say HollywoodHulkHogan’s name calling.
 
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No matter your position on abortion, it's a fact that it's largely used by poor and/or minorities in the US (keeping their population down) and sex-selective abortion is globally used as a tool to eliminate females (usually at the behest of men). In places like Iceland, it's even been used to remove Down's Syndrome from the national population.

...Whether you think the above are good things is up to you. There are a lot of people on the modern hard right that fully support abortion for any or all of the above reasons, which is something I don't think that people really get (since they don't know about how involved the KKK was with Margaret Sanger back in the day. )

When I was at college, people seemed to consider abortion to be only a positive thing that only the "evil bigots" hated. I don't really think they've realized yet that no, an increasing amount of "evil bigots" are actually cheering it on. Whenever I brought this up they genuinely didn't seem to know how to react.
Likewise, I think that many are just beginning to realize that abortion can be just as much a tool of oppression as any of its alternatives. Making it "more inclusive" won't change the detrimental effects it already has to society at large. And if anything else, having a bunch of trannies invade this is bad taste at best and casualizing/fetishizing what is often the result of a traumatic experience at worst (and that's on top of post-abortion emotional damage). If this hogwash goes through, it's not going to end well.
 
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That's not a fetus -- THAT is a stillbirth, most likely. That is way too big and too developed for a fetus. Probably stolen from a memorial page.
Nope, that fetus is 22 weeks old. Pretty much every photo I've seen from the abortion clinic looks like this aside from the ones where the fetus was already totally dismembered. I can fetch them for you but they're graphic. You can also see videos of the abortion process, complete with the surgeon cutting up these little guys into pieces before sucking them out with a vacuum as they try to hide. I mean, the info is out there.
 
lol yeah bro they're totally the same
Fun fact: a good chunk of the shock images prolifers throw around are actually miscarriages and stillborns, presumably from wanted pregnancies. Even the ones that aren't are all from fairly late in pregnancy, long after most abortions happen (and those that do happen that late are usually wanted pregnancies that went to shit I.e. fetus doesn't have a brain or has something like trisomy 18 or 13 or some shit).

Most abortions happen pretty early and look more like a heavy periodupthan anything else. The fetus itself is tiny and looks more like a shrimp or gummy bear than anything recognizably human. Which is why prolifers never use pictures of them, because it's kinda hard to insist something is the exact same as murdering a baby and hold up a pic that looks more like someone forgot to flush the toilet on the rag than anything else.
 
Historically they weren't. Why do you care if two consenting adults fuck?

While gov't shouldn't be in someone's bedroom, the last 50 years have shown that sexual activity is, in fact, a matter of societal concern. Yes, I do care, because you can argue that the sexual revolution led to a wider acceptance of degeneracy.

The human sexual drive must have outside controlling factors, so that we all share the burden equally, rather than promiscuous people having their cake and eating it (have sex and not care about the results of sex), while moderate and modest people footing the bill. Not even mentioning the moral quandaries their lifestyle brings and how they corrupt other people.

Stop thinking with your genitals.
 
Fun fact: a good chunk of the shock images prolifers throw around are actually miscarriages and stillborns, presumably from wanted pregnancies. Even the ones that aren't are all from fairly late in pregnancy, long after most abortions happen (and those that do happen that late are usually wanted pregnancies that went to shit I.e. fetus doesn't have a brain or has something like trisomy 18 or 13 or some shit).

Most abortions happen pretty early and look more like a heavy periodupthan anything else. The fetus itself is tiny and looks more like a shrimp or gummy bear than anything recognizably human. Which is why prolifers never use pictures of them, because it's kinda hard to insist something is the exact same as murdering a baby and hold up a pic that looks more like someone forgot to flush the toilet on the rag than anything else.
It's a failing of the pro-life movement, for sure, feeling as though they need to produce classically grotesque pictures in order to communicate a nonetheless grotesque reality. Like, logically, would it matter that the growing fetus is the size of an orange at the point of its abortion? Because it doesn't matter when we charge double homicide for killing a pregnant woman, and it doesn't matter when we look in horror at news of someone killing a newborn, even though in both cases, the child is quite small.

That a fetus gets a heartbeat at however many weeks isn't a demonstration against aborting it any time before then. You can almost certainly imagine the kind of people who think that these principally emotional appeals would ever be effective.

Anyways, I just wanted to rant about the failure of the pro-life movement as most famously seen. I figure the picture wasn't an abortion, because the point of the comment was to challenge an asinine equation of a sperm cell to a fetus. Meanwhile, you can't say with certainty that that's indeed not an aborted fetus.

I can, though.

Because if the fetus is that large, then they probably would have had to dismember the fetus, and @Ruber would probably have violently vomited all over his keyboard instead of delivering that image.
 
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It's a failing of the pro-life movement, for sure, feeling as though they need to produce classically grotesque pictures in order to communicate a nonetheless grotesque reality. Like, logically, would it matter that the growing fetus is the size of an orange at the point of its abortion? Because it doesn't matter when we charge double homicide for killing a pregnant woman, and it doesn't matter when we look in horror at news of someone killing a newborn, even though in both cases, the child is quite small.

That a fetus gets a heartbeat at however many weeks isn't a demonstration against aborting it any time before then. You can almost certainly imagine the kind of people who think that these principally emotional appeals would ever be effective.

Anyways, I just wanted to rant about the failure of the pro-life movement as most famously seen. I figure the picture wasn't an abortion, because the point of the comment was to challenge an asinine equation of a sperm cell to a fetus. Meanwhile, you can't say with certainty that that's indeed not an aborted fetus.

I can, though.

Because if the fetus is that large, then they probably would have had to dismember the fetus, and @Ruber would probably have instead violently vomited all over his keyboard instead of delivering that image.
Fetuses aren't dismembered in abortion. The woman is given drugs that more or less just induce labor. That's part of why late term abortions last several days and are so ridiculously expensive. The only reason I can think a fetus would need to be dismembered is either it's so hideously deformed it can't be removed otherwise, or it's a still born that already started to rot and decay.

Prolife propaganda sites arent reliable sources of anything except laughing at the bullshit prolifers are currently trying to pass as true.

The dudes in this thread really need to come to beauty parlor and marvel in horror with us at shit like trisomy 18, anencephaly, limb body wall complex, and alobar holowhatever it was. Maybe one of you can finally start the Kayli thread we've been needing.
 
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I think this is the main paragraph:

In the United States, more providers are familiar with terms such as reproductive justice, a term coined by women of colour to highlight how structural oppression affects reproductive health – the application to the UK continues to lag behind. Recent Black Lives Matter protests where black pregnant women hold signs expressing their concern for the safety of their unborn child has brought to the fore how these issues overlap and intersect; we can longer address them in isolation.

Basically, everything is racist and we need to give more free stuff to black women.

Let's check out the author:
annabel-sowemimo-headshot.png

Annabel Sowemimo is a community sexual and reproductive health doctor and founder of non-profit Decolonising Contraception

DECOLONISING CONTRACEPTION!!!
These people are insane.
 
The dudes in this thread really need to come to beauty parlor and marvel in horror with us at shit like trisomy 18, anencephaly, limb body wall complex, and alobar holowhatever it was. Maybe one of you can finally start the Kayli thread we've been needing.
Kill cripples, Downies, preborns, suicidal people, poor people. Their life ain’t worth living.
 
Fetuses aren't dismembered in abortion. The woman is given drugs that more or less just induce labor. That's part of why late term abortions last several days and are so ridiculously expensive. The only reason I can think a fetus would need to be dismembered is either it's so hideously deformed it can't be removed otherwise, or it's a still born that already started to rot and decay.

Prolife propaganda sites arent reliable sources of anything except laughing at the bullshit prolifers are currently trying to pass as true.
Kill cripples, Downies, preborns, suicidal people, poor people. Their life ain’t worth living.
I don't think most people would disagree that shit like the Hartley hooligans and Jaxon Buell don't have lives worth living (though at least the latter was confirmed as incapable of suffering since he had nothing beyond a brain stem).

Or hell, what's arguably worse are the ones that aren't potatoes brain wise and just have bodies that are completely fucked like Tinslee Adams and the butterfly skin disease. So they're fully concious and aware of being in agonizing pain.

Yep, heaven forbid someone abort that shit while it's still a fetus.
 
I think this is the main paragraph:



Basically, everything is racist and we need to give more free stuff to black women.

Let's check out the author:
Ver archivo adjunto 1433133
Annabel Sowemimo is a community sexual and reproductive health doctor and founder of non-profit Decolonising Contraception

DECOLONISING CONTRACEPTION!!!
These people are insane.

Yes she's got the free stuff for black women down pat. Went to one of the most expensive & elite girls' schools in Britain.


(top 5, at a minimum https://ukguardianship.com/best-independent-schools-in-the-uk-gcse-league-table-2018/)

And then she gets prizes for being black and doing well despite the incredibly odds

 
"If niggers want to kill their unborn children, fine by me, let them skip to the head of the line. The cost to society is much cheaper than having them get shot in the streets by their fellow apes and then unfortunately live, only to then run up billions of dollars in healthcare costs."

The Ghost of Margret Sanger (Inventor of the Shop-Vac Human Vacuum Hose Attachment)
 
Can we not use photos of those who were stillborn in our autistic abortion debates, please.

A stillbirth is a shattering event for the parents and wider family. They lost their baby. Their child died.

I don’t think any of us would want photos of our dead children used in an A&N slapfight. I know, this is the Farms, we are all terminally autistic, DON’T TONE POLICE US U CUNT etc. But still. I think we can conduct our sperging without touching on the grief of bereaved parents. This isn’t a place you would want to find the photo of your lost baby on.
 
Can we not use photos of those who were stillborn in our autistic abortion debates, please.

A stillbirth is a shattering event for the parents and wider family. They lost their baby. Their child died.

I don’t think any of us would want photos of our dead children used in an A&N slapfight. I know, this is the Farms, we are all terminally autistic, DON’T TONE POLICE US U CUNT etc. But still. I think we can conduct our sperging without touching on the grief of bereaved parents. This isn’t a place you would want to find the photo of your lost baby on.
Ngl I do wonder if any of the poison womb people featured on Something Awful way back in the day have ever had any pictures of their dead babies stolen and repurposed by prolifers. It would be kind of ironic since I remember most of the poison womb people being fundies (whether they started off as fundies or only became fundies after going insane from grief I have no idea).

But yeah everything I've heard is that loss of a wanted pregnancy is one of the worst and most traumatic things that can happen to someone. Even aborting wanted pregnancies due to fetal abnormalities is hard (it's just that parents who do so feel like their wanted child would suffer even worse if they carried on with the pregnancy, and for a lot of conditions they're probably right).
 
Fetuses aren't dismembered in abortion.

The only reason I can think a fetus would need to be dismembered

Are they dismembered or not, you absolute vacillator?
Prolife propaganda sites arent reliable sources of anything except laughing at the bullshit prolifers are currently trying to pass as true.

Good thing I don't need them to make a case.
I don't think most people would disagree that shit like the Hartley hooligans and Jaxon

Their point is that what constitutes a "life worth living", beyond being able to survive, is so subjective it's literally the driving force behind the kind of eugenics everyone supposedly hates. It isn't a meaningful standard, and the only reason you invoke absolute abnormalities like the case of the "Hartley Hooligans" is because you know you haven't a leg to stand on in the general issue. Indeed, all you can do is come up with complete outliers in the hopes of shocking your interlocutor cold, as though they never considered congenital defects or as if the stark majority of abortions aren't done just because the mother didn't want to be pregnant.

Your arguments are as vapid as those of the stock pro-life orgs largely because you engage with a flattened caricature devoid of even its premises, and you can't even do that right.
 
So it’s like... if you are FTM black troon out... you take hormones to shrink the titties and maybe get some stubble going... then you fuck a dude cause you are straight but larp as a fagget. Then you get prego cuz you are still a woman. Then you can’t get an abortion cuz of “muh black skin.” ? There are a few too many layers of exceptional for me. I’m pressing X to doubt on this one.
 
Are they dismembered or not, you absolute vacillator?


Good thing I don't need them to make a case.


Their point is that what constitutes a "life worth living", beyond being able to survive, is so subjective it's literally the driving force behind the kind of eugenics everyone supposedly hates. It isn't a meaningful standard, and the only reason you invoke absolute abnormalities like the case of the "Hartley Hooligans" is because you know you haven't a leg to stand on in the general issue. Indeed, all you can do is come up with complete outliers in the hopes of shocking your interlocutor cold, as though they never considered congenital defects or as if the stark majority of abortions aren't done just because the mother didn't want to be pregnant.

Your arguments are as vapid as those of the stock pro-life orgs largely because you engage with a flattened caricature devoid of even its premises, and you can't even do that right.
Dismembering fetuses isn't a normal procedure in abortions. I know prolifers have this weird fetish for dismemberment, but it happens rarely if it happens at all. True, I cant say it's never ever happened (if nothing else I'm sure there have been cases where women have had to wait so long before being allowed to abort dead fetuses that the fetus started rotting and decomposing to the point its limbs separated), but it would be an extremely rare thing. Most fetuses don't even have limbs at all when they're aborted, because they haven't reached that far in gestation (particularly those abortions that are done because the pregnancy is unwanted. Seriously, people who become pregnant when they don't want to be are gonna try to get an abortion ASAP, not carry out the pregnancy for months and months and get a late term abortion for shits and giggles).

If you want to carry a brainless or inside out fetus to term you do you, but that's something I think more people than not would rather abort because if nothing else they want to spare the child they wanted from suffering further.
 
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