Holding China financially responsible for the Corona virus?

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17 de Dic, 2019
This seems like the best place to ask this. With Corona BTFO'ing entire economies and creating a massive debt, the question that rises is whether some of the countries will hold China financially responsible to the virus and will try to recoup losses in some manner like canceling debt to China or confiscating property owned by China. It seems to me like an easy case to make, even if we take the neutral story of this being a result of a guy eating bat soup it's still the result of China not improving hygenic practices and trying to obfuscate knowledge of until it is too late to contain.
Do you think there's a chance of it happening?
 
Our fagtarded governments won't do anything due to financial interest/threat and perceptions of bigotry, although really we should punish the Chinese government for allowing shitty health standards and the continued superstitions of "traditional medicine" to lead to this scenario in the first place.
 
the situation is so new that we don't really have a hard list of "pro-china" and "anti-china" countries yet but most so far seem to be cucking to them and falling for their propaganda to at least some extent (italy is totally cucked in spite of china's repeated fuckening). And as I've said before, it's much easier for world leaders to hate trump than to hate china, so that's an uphill battle in terms of forming an anti-china coallition without also endorsing evil orange man.

hopefully some will start to wake up and not let china get away with all it's trying to do in terms of rewriting the virus' history, but i'm not optimistic.

a good article: https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/China-is-rewriting-coronavirus-history-and-nobody-will-stop-it
 
Genuinely, whilst China is technically "responsible", they aren't responsible for the way western goverments are acting.
IF Trump gets his way and the economy can "roar by Easter" - which needs to happen, you will be ok.

Western governments have handled this poorly. You don't shut down your whole economy and put people out of work.
There needs to be track and trace in place, enforced guidelines and clear and concise dates on when things will re-open.

The major issue atm you're facing doesn't come from China. The problem comes from people being out of work, funds being depleted and this attitude of like... "Who cares about the economy, don't you value people's lives?!"
You have people begging for long term hardcore shut downs. The economy can't sustain that. When the money runs out and it will, it will become more dire. It doesn't matter if you run a capitalist society or a socialist society, every society needs a currency.

Even if you go as far as to say a fiat currency is not needed and you look at barter, there's still a basic structure of exchange. It's not possible to live in a society where neetbux are dispensed and people do nothing to get them. There will always be a cost to things. Limiting how productive society can be is the real killer.

In Australia, people sadly think that the government can continue to give out Coronacash until "cases are down to zero". They literally will never be down to zero. This is going to enter the regular rotation of viruses from here on out. Only herd immunity and a vaccine will reduce it to zero. They think that it's sustainable to shut down schools for a year, to restrict people to their homes until a vaccine is found. They think it's sustainable for people to be out of work for 18 months. It's not. These are the people who are more dangerous to society than the virus. They aren't realistic.

So a calm, rational approach that yes, it's deadly, it spreads more so than the flu but is AS deadly as the flu/as much as a burden as the flu but also with a strong commitment to the economy/keeping wheels churning so everyone is able to access services they need is important. If countries don't minimize their economic damage by being rational, but fast acting, is that China's fault. It's up to you to mitigate damages.

Can China be held responsible if you don't do that? Not really.
I'm pretty sure legally blaming it all on China would hold no water, as well.
 
They, (China) will lose money anyway from this so I don’t see how it makes a difference.
If Xi wants to make China go full retard with handling this incident then he can go on ahead.

Countries are only bending the knee to China now because they are terrified of losing supply chain access.
South east Asia, India, Germany/EU, and the US could step in as supply chain supplements to China’s over inflated, laughably over leveraged economy.
It won’t be instant and will take years of political maneuvering, but it could certainly be done.
Also the US has the unique ability to blockade China if they really wanted to.
 
I'm probably start pushing the idea of a future without China to anyone willing to listen. And I'm sure everyone's listening since this is the first time China fucked everyone over at the same time and not just kicking around the smaller countries around it, making debt traps to every other developing countries, and fucking over every schmo that foolishly had their entire product produced in one of their companies only for the design to be stolen.
 
heathercho dijo:
Genuinely, whilst China is technically "responsible", they aren't responsible for the way western goverments are acting.
IF Trump gets his way and the economy can "roar by Easter" - which needs to happen, you will be ok.

Western governments have handled this poorly. You don't shut down your whole economy and put people out of work.
There needs to be track and trace in place, enforced guidelines and clear and concise dates on when things will re-open.

The major issue atm you're facing doesn't come from China. The problem comes from people being out of work, funds being depleted and this attitude of like... "Who cares about the economy, don't you value people's lives?!"
You have people begging for long term hardcore shut downs. The economy can't sustain that. When the money runs out and it will, it will become more dire. It doesn't matter if you run a capitalist society or a socialist society, every society needs a currency.

Even if you go as far as to say a fiat currency is not needed and you look at barter, there's still a basic structure of exchange. It's not possible to live in a society where neetbux are dispensed and people do nothing to get them. There will always be a cost to things. Limiting how productive society can be is the real killer.

In Australia, people sadly think that the government can continue to give out Coronacash until "cases are down to zero". They literally will never be down to zero. This is going to enter the regular rotation of viruses from here on out. Only herd immunity and a vaccine will reduce it to zero. They think that it's sustainable to shut down schools for a year, to restrict people to their homes until a vaccine is found. They think it's sustainable for people to be out of work for 18 months. It's not. These are the people who are more dangerous to society than the virus. They aren't realistic.

So a calm, rational approach that yes, it's deadly, it spreads more so than the flu but is AS deadly as the flu/as much as a burden as the flu but also with a strong commitment to the economy/keeping wheels churning so everyone is able to access services they need is important. If countries don't minimize their economic damage by being rational, but fast acting, is that China's fault. It's up to you to mitigate damages.

Can China be held responsible if you don't do that? Not really.
I'm pretty sure legally blaming it all on China would hold no water, as well.
Presiona para expandir...

keep in mind that the WHO and china itself was saying that it was literally nothing for months on end and there's nothing to worry about. the only places that said fuck that---take this shit seriously are taiwan and, to a lesser extent, hong kong. i'm all for blaming western governments' being sluggish and dumb westerners being dumb and not prepping or social distancing early, but there really was an information bottleneck early on that was completely the fault of the CCP and the WHO.

I agree with your point about lockdowns. they're unnecessary, and will do more harm than good economically. china will probably pay dearly for its two-month-long lockdown of wuhan. again, taiwan and hong kong found a middle ground pretty well early on. there were home office protocols, calls for social distancing, people stocking up on ppe, even to a fault, but in general people were really careful and being very economical about their contact with others and personal hygeine. to me this is much better than a full-blown shutdown that people are calling for, but it requires large-scale collective effort.

as far as tangible financial punishment for china, people are talking about "decoupling" and attempting to pull manufacturing out of china, which should have already started a long time ago. this virus has woken a lot of people up to the problem of china-only supply chains, the result of which should be pretty severe for china long-term if more companies really do diversify their supply chains into other areas of SE asia like malaysia, indonesia, vietnam, cambodia, laos, etc.
 
BoingBoingBoi dijo:
I agree with your point about lockdowns. they're unnecessary, and will do more harm than good economically. china will probably pay dearly for its two-month-long lockdown of wuhan. again, taiwan and hong kong found a middle ground pretty well early on. there were home office protocols, calls for social distancing, people stocking up on ppe, even to a fault, but in general people were really careful and being very economical about their contact with others and personal hygeine. to me this is much better than a full-blown shutdown that people are calling for, but it requires large-scale collective effort.
Presiona para expandir...

HK and Taiwan are much smaller than the US and their population is probably more intelligent and less narcissistic on average. This would never work in the US.
 
Prepper hoarders and price gougers should be hold financially responsable for the economic effects of the coronavirus.
If this shit ever gets too out of hand I know who to fucking rob, I want to show those libertarian psychos what happens when everyone breaks the Social Contract.
 
heathercho dijo:
Genuinely, whilst China is technically "responsible", they aren't responsible for the way western goverments are acting.
IF Trump gets his way and the economy can "roar by Easter" - which needs to happen, you will be ok.

Western governments have handled this poorly. You don't shut down your whole economy and put people out of work.
There needs to be track and trace in place, enforced guidelines and clear and concise dates on when things will re-open.

The major issue atm you're facing doesn't come from China. The problem comes from people being out of work, funds being depleted and this attitude of like... "Who cares about the economy, don't you value people's lives?!"
You have people begging for long term hardcore shut downs. The economy can't sustain that. When the money runs out and it will, it will become more dire. It doesn't matter if you run a capitalist society or a socialist society, every society needs a currency.

Even if you go as far as to say a fiat currency is not needed and you look at barter, there's still a basic structure of exchange. It's not possible to live in a society where neetbux are dispensed and people do nothing to get them. There will always be a cost to things. Limiting how productive society can be is the real killer.

In Australia, people sadly think that the government can continue to give out Coronacash until "cases are down to zero". They literally will never be down to zero. This is going to enter the regular rotation of viruses from here on out. Only herd immunity and a vaccine will reduce it to zero. They think that it's sustainable to shut down schools for a year, to restrict people to their homes until a vaccine is found. They think it's sustainable for people to be out of work for 18 months. It's not. These are the people who are more dangerous to society than the virus. They aren't realistic.

So a calm, rational approach that yes, it's deadly, it spreads more so than the flu but is AS deadly as the flu/as much as a burden as the flu but also with a strong commitment to the economy/keeping wheels churning so everyone is able to access services they need is important. If countries don't minimize their economic damage by being rational, but fast acting, is that China's fault. It's up to you to mitigate damages.

Can China be held responsible if you don't do that? Not really.
I'm pretty sure legally blaming it all on China would hold no water, as well.
Presiona para expandir...
You bet your ass that most people, especially in Europe, are so scared they will not want to go to work until the media stops talking about the virus. There's plenty of Kiwis that are all about total lockdown for an inconcievable time. I did not expect that.
My solution:keep the elderly and sick people in lockdown, the rest can go out and practice distancing and handwashing. I'm willing to let a lockdown happen for a couple o weeks to calm things down and flatten that curve but we can't keep this up forever indeed.
 
martin123 dijo:
HK and Taiwan are much smaller than the US and their population is probably more intelligent and less narcissistic on average. This would never work in the US.
Presiona para expandir...

They are both anti-China territories, so once shit started brewing from that country, they knew what to do. US is half-and-half, and our measures of containment get breached by dipshits who think they have a "freedom" to endanger others lol
 
Nephi dijo:
Prepper hoarders and price gougers should be hold financially responsable for the economic effects of the coronavirus.
If this shit ever gets too out of hand I know who to fucking rob, I want to show those libertarian psychos what happens when everyone breaks the Social Contract.
Presiona para expandir...
How can you do that if you are living in Hungary?
 
martin123 dijo:
HK and Taiwan are much smaller than the US and their population is probably more intelligent and less narcissistic on average. This would never work in the US.
Presiona para expandir...
People comparing the US to countries 10-20x smaller than the US with completely different cultures will never fail to make me chuckle.
 
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