General Wrestling Discussion

Spring of 1999, Nitro was outright better than Raw for the people still watching it. Summer started to get bad with too much Nash and the Red and Yellow Hogan return. Fall was when the wheels came off and things got out of control by 2000.

I remember watching the last Nitro thinking about the ending of Old Yeller.
 
I remember watching the last Nitro thinking about the ending of Old Yeller.

If you watch the three PPVs WCW did in 2001 you could see they actually had some direction again and were mostly pushing the right people and had jettisoned a lot of the dead weight on top. Way too little too late and they had turned everyone off so completely and pissed all over their brand throughout 2000 that you just couldn't get the people back, and they already tried the "reboot" a bunch of times that year - most notably the Russo/Bischoff alliance so "Wer'e rebooting, for real this time" would have been a tough sell for Fusient Media Ventures if they had kept the TV slot.

Look how much trouble Anthem has had getting people to even consider watching Impact Wrestling and they've had a perfectly respectable, major embarrassment free professional wrestling promotion for well over a year now. The last real scandal they had was Alberto Del Rio getting wasted and no showing their WM weekend show in 2018 and they actually handled it right and fired him. The TNA legacy including the word "Impact" became so toxic that I think there's no rehabilitating them. I think AEW actually may be what finishes off TNA Impact Wrestling. I'd really like their archives to be on the WWE Network and would gladly pay more for it. There were some pretty good matches and angles until 2010, plus it'd be nice to have a good video stream quality of that hilarious Sharmell vs. Jenna Morasca match.
 
I 100% agree. If it was about workrate Dolph Ziggler would have a championship run to rival Bruno Sammartino.

A character in NXT won't survive the first wave of edits from Vince. Take a look at The War Raiders, or Sanity, or My Black Son Jason Jordan.


Jordan did seem set for a decent run before injury curtailed his career. But it's the fact they don't use Chad Gable that mystifies me, as he could easily be Angle mk.2. Fantastic wrestler, olympic pedigree and ready made to be the all-American super babyface.
 
The Summer 1999-2001 WCW product that I remembered being painfully unwatchable is pretty breezy compared to about 3/4 of Raws. Even the three hour Nitros. I'm not going to say something stupid and say it was totally good or it didn't have a lot of outright crap on it but it had memorable characters and even the bad stuff was bad an in interesting way most of the time.


Spring of 1999, Nitro was outright better than Raw for the people still watching it. Summer started to get bad with too much Nash and the Red and Yellow Hogan return. Fall was when the wheels came off and things got out of control by 2000.



The most over guys from NXT are the ones that stayed mostly the same like Owens, Joe, and Balor. Look how much good all that tinkering has done to Nakamura. My god why did they fuck with his theme?

To answer the question: they changed Nakamura's theme because they didn't want to have fans sing along with a heel's theme music. Shock of all shocks, some fans memorized the Japanese and are now singing that too.
 
Apparently the social justice AEW fans are going after Cornette over his Double Or Nothing review cause he called someone named "Sonny Kiss" a transvestite and he wasn't that impressed with the PPV. Wrestlers dog piling on include Joey Ryan and some AEW dude named LuchaSaurus, I think the Young Bucks also took some potshots at him too. It seems AEW is trying to aim themselves to be more "politically progressive" than WWE since WWE is the "big bad evil capitalist Republican corporation" so to counter balance this Cody and company are embracing progressive politics from the likes of Alexandra Cortez.

Another funny thing is that Cornette is pretty solidly left wing politically and frequently rants about Republicans and Trump on his podcast so they're just eating an ally, this isn't his first rodeo though as Corny caused controversy years ago when he shit all over Islam on his podcast cause he's also a near militant Atheist, I think it caused his last co-host to have a breakdown though cause she thought Cornette was being "Islamophobic"
 
Oh, sweet jesus. I took a look at the social media thread on /wooo/ and we're getting another chapter of Jim Cornette vs Joey Ryan's online feud.
This is the OP of the thread.
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One day later, he kept going.
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Normally, I would say Cornette is a-logging, buuuuuuuuuuuut

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it looks to me like Joey Ryan is being a bitch taking advantage of today's witch-hunting culture.
Oh, and people are having a slapfight on the social media thread over the use of the word transvestite. Fun times.
 
lolAEW
what the fuck are they going to do if they're trying to get this sort of crowd on board while working with Mexican wrestling in any way
even the exoticos down there throw an AAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY PUTO (or a few dozen) at their opponents over the course of a match
 
It seems AEW is trying to aim themselves to be more "politically progressive" than WWE since WWE is the "big bad evil capitalist Republican corporation" so to counter balance this Cody and company are embracing progressive politics from the likes of Alexandra Cortez.
I think it's very unfair to go ahead and characterize them as a SJW company. They've only had one show so far and, despite having plenty of chances to really go hard into the typical subjects, they kept it pretty apolitical. We'll see how things go moving forward but if they just keep it to social media then I can't say I care too much about the political leanings of Luchasaurus or whoever.
 
I think it's very unfair to go ahead and characterize them as a SJW company. They've only had one show so far and, despite having plenty of chances to really go hard into the typical subjects, they kept it pretty apolitical. We'll see how things go moving forward but if they just keep it to social media then I can't say I care too much about the political leanings of Luchasaurus or whoever.
aren't they also doing some antigun thing?
 
aren't they also doing some antigun thing?
An event where the proceeds are being donated to victims of gun violence isn't necessarily "anti-gun". We'll see how they choose to talk about it closer to time or if they even say anything about gun legislation at all.

Okay, so with a week (and another watch), I still feel like Double or Nothing was a great show and I want to see more from the crew. However, I did have a couple of issues or complaints:

1. Hangman Page. I really don't see him at the level of Jericho, Omega, or Moxley and this show didn't really do enough to put him there. The battle royal wasn't that good to begin with and beating an assortment of other guys I wouldn't rate anywhere near that top three didn't do much to get him over as their next big star to me. The segment later in the show also didn't help him as he just stood there as MJF verbally walked all over him. The guy might be a star down the line, but I don't see him getting over to it by August (when the Jericho match for the world title will be).

2. The three man team is pointless. I get that they want to train up Alex Marvez but I think throwing him out there like this was a bad move. He had so little to say and, by the second half of the show, I had completely forgotten that he was there. But hey, at least he doesn't make me want to strangle him like Michael Cole so there's that.

3. What's even the point of this Librarian gimmick they've put so much time into on BTE? Actually, the little bits of BTE that made it's way into the show were pretty cringey to me but I know one younger (they were 22) non-fan watching in our group thought that stuff was funny so maybe it's just not my thing.
 
He's like the WWEs Norman Smiley.
iirc Norman's over at the performance center teach the young`uns the Big Wiggle and other secrets of Black Magic, so there's a non-zero chance of him making a cameo through the saga of the 24/7 Title
An event where the proceeds are being donated to victims of gun violence isn't necessarily "anti-gun". We'll see how they choose to talk about it closer to time or if they even say anything about gun legislation at all.

Okay, so with a week (and another watch), I still feel like Double or Nothing was a great show and I want to see more from the crew. However, I did have a couple of issues or complaints:

1. Hangman Page. I really don't see him at the level of Jericho, Omega, or Moxley and this show didn't really do enough to put him there. The battle royal wasn't that good to begin with and beating an assortment of other guys I wouldn't rate anywhere near that top three didn't do much to get him over as their next big star to me. The segment later in the show also didn't help him as he just stood there as MJF verbally walked all over him. The guy might be a star down the line, but I don't see him getting over to it by August (when the Jericho match for the world title will be).

2. The three man team is pointless. I get that they want to train up Alex Marvez but I think throwing him out there like this was a bad move. He had so little to say and, by the second half of the show, I had completely forgotten that he was there. But hey, at least he doesn't make me want to strangle him like Michael Cole so there's that.

3. What's even the point of this Librarian gimmick they've put so much time into on BTE? Actually, the little bits of BTE that made it's way into the show were pretty cringey to me but I know one younger (they were 22) non-fan watching in our group thought that stuff was funny so maybe it's just not my thing.
I had only heard a charity, didn't look into how the charity actually spends its money so I basically assumed it's shit lol.
What struck me about the librarian thing was how bushleage the production quality seemed to get for it too. I mostly dislike the Bucks et al so I assume if you're into them and their stuff it's up your alley.
 
iirc Norman's over at the performance center teach the young`uns the Big Wiggle and other secrets of Black Magic, so there's a non-zero chance of him making a cameo through the saga of the 24/7 Title
And personally Screamin' Norman was one of my favorites in WCW even if was a jobber he was the lovable loser well at least in his second run there, he did some work in the early 90's during their international tag team tournament (which was just a way to push the Steiners vs Gordy/Williams) I mean the guy could actually wrestle given the chance. Who knows maybe one day he'll show up on the Edge and Christian show.
 
And personally Screamin' Norman was one of my favorites in WCW even if was a jobber he was the lovable loser well at least in his second run there, he did some work in the early 90's during their international tag team tournament (which was just a way to push the Steiners vs Gordy/Williams) I mean the guy could actually wrestle given the chance. Who knows maybe one day he'll show up on the Edge and Christian show.
Oh yeah he was really great. I wonder how much he can still go? Wiki said he's 54 which isn't that old for a lucha background.
 
There were problems with the Honor Club stream of ROH State of the Art last night. The stream went dead multiple times after PJ Black vs Jeff Cobb started, it sped up, slowed down, audio died and came back. This kind of thing happened at the beginning of the tag team gauntlet match too. Just a mess, one that they can ill afford during this period without The Elite or SCU.
 
iirc Norman's over at the performance center teach the young`uns the Big Wiggle and other secrets of Black Magic, so there's a non-zero chance of him making a cameo through the saga of the 24/7 Title
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ps-OlcrCieg
I had only heard a charity, didn't look into how the charity actually spends its money so I basically assumed it's shit lol.
What struck me about the librarian thing was how bushleage the production quality seemed to get for it too. I mostly dislike the Bucks et al so I assume if you're into them and their stuff it's up your alley.

I'm really pissed that Bucks match was one of my few exposures to the Lucha Bros because I just find the Bucks spots awful. It's that style of wrestling that requires you to just stand there and take all of your opponent's stuff, no story, no selling. There's a double sharpshooter spot that would make The Rock cringe at its execution. My main familiarity with the Bucks was that they do a lot of superkicks, have a move named after Meltzer, and have long matches I need to FF on Wrestle Kingdoms.

I don't get the whole deal with them other than that they look obnoxious, flip a lot, and are really good at selling t-shirts. Their spots aren't even state of the art for that style in an era where you can see Ricochet on Monday Night Raw. Can they also turn the fucking ring mic down during their matches? The tumbling and rolling sounds get very tiresome.

I haven't kept up with much non WWE wrestling over the last five or six years and I had heard so much about The Lucha Bros. I'll need to find some other stuff of theirs to watch.

There were problems with the Honor Club stream of ROH State of the Art last night. The stream went dead multiple times after PJ Black vs Jeff Cobb started, it sped up, slowed down, audio died and came back. This kind of thing happened at the beginning of the tag team gauntlet match too. Just a mess, one that they can ill afford during this period without The Elite or SCU.

It's really time for Ring of Honor to call it a day. It's obvious Sinclair doesn't want to invest in them and AEW is going to snatch up all of their partnerships if they haven't already. I can't imagine they're profitable at this point and they're not even really producing talent that the WWE would be interested in. With MLW and lots of other up and coming small leagues I don't see the point in ROH continuing in this sad state. Somewhere Xavier is smirking at the idea of Matt Taven World Champion.

1. Hangman Page. I really don't see him at the level of Jericho, Omega, or Moxley and this show didn't really do enough to put him there. The battle royal wasn't that good to begin with and beating an assortment of other guys I wouldn't rate anywhere near that top three didn't do much to get him over as their next big star to me. The segment later in the show also didn't help him as he just stood there as MJF verbally walked all over him. The guy might be a star down the line, but I don't see him getting over to it by August (when the Jericho match for the world title will be).

I'm not big on AEW so far but I actually was surprised by Hangman Page. He seems to have an "It" factor a lot of their roster is lacking and I want to see more of him. I agree this spot is too soon and building a world title challenger in a pre show match is bass ackwards at best. Maybe the idea was more people would see him if it was a free match? I think they got taken for a loop by Pac pulling a "That doesn't work for me brother" over the ever prestigious Dragon's Gate belt as if this was still 2008.

AEW are selling on their brand and loyalty more than anything else right now. It's not the actual matchups that are drawing, it's the hype/FOMO marketing. I agree completely about Marvez, dump him and get the mask off Excalibur. That mask looks so indyish on a major broadcast. Ross/Excalibur work well together and fans vastly prefer a two man booth.
 
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