Google forced by internal conflict to end censored Chinese search engine project

https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/google-china-censored-search-engine-2/
https://archive.is/dSt4p

GOOGLE HAS BEEN forced to shut down a data analysis system it was using to develop a censored search engine for China after members of the company’s privacy team raised internal complaints that it had been kept secret from them, The Intercept has learned.

The internal rift over the system has had massive ramifications, effectively ending work on the censored search engine, known as Dragonfly, according to two sources familiar with the plans. The incident represents a major blow to top Google executives, including CEO Sundar Pichai, who have over the last two years made the China project one of their main priorities.

The dispute began in mid-August, when the The Intercept revealed that Google employees working on Dragonfly had been using a Beijing-based website to help develop blacklists for the censored search engine, which was designed to block out broad categories of information related to democracy, human rights, and peaceful protest, in accordance with strict rules on censorship in China that are enforced by the country’s authoritarian Communist Party government.
 
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Visitor dijo:
The premise is the same in my view because they're asserting that you can own an idea. I don't believe ideas are property. If I can make an internal combustion engine as well as you can why should I specifically not be permitted to do so just because you came up with the idea first?
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Because if people have no reward for spending billions of dollars to develop some completely new technology, they won't do it. If you can immediately steal the product of an enormous amount of investment made by someone else to develop something, they have absolutely no reason to develop such things because they would lose their entire investment as everyone else took advantage of it for free.

So enjoy your new technological dark age.
 
AnOminous dijo:
Because if people have no reward for spending billions of dollars to develop some completely new technology, they won't do it. If you can immediately steal the product of an enormous amount of investment made by someone else to develop something, they have absolutely no reason to develop such things because they would lose their entire investment as everyone else took advantage of it for free.

So enjoy your new technological dark age.
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The 100 knockoffs produced in the weeks and months after the new release of this billion dollar R&D project are not a realistic threat to a company with billions of dollars to throw at R&D.
 
Visitor dijo:
The 100 knockoffs produced in the weeks and months after the new release of this billion dollar R&D project are not a realistic threat to a company with billions of dollars to throw at R&D.
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The fact that they're never going to make that money back is what will cause them not to bother doing it, since the costs will be their own alone, while everyone else will eat up the profits.
 
Imagine still thinking that Google is looking out for the consumer's best interests. After all the shit they've done this year alone, you'd have to be blind, exceptional, a victim of propaganda, or all three combined.
 
Diabeetus dijo:
Imagine still thinking that Google is looking out for the consumer's best interests. After all the shit they've done this year alone, you'd have to be blind, exceptional, a victim of propaganda, or all three combined.
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My favorite thing about this mess is that the same group of people who whined this mess away are probably the ones who were advocating for censoring results from conservative websites on their leaked internal message boards.
 
Diabeetus dijo:
Imagine still thinking that Google is looking out for the consumer's best interests. After all the shit they've done this year alone, you'd have to be blind, exceptional, a victim of propaganda, or all three combined.
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Nobody should ever have trusted any corporation with "Don't be evil" as a motto. At this point, Google has the potential to become so evil you have to go to fictional corporations out of cyberpunk or video games for an equivalent. Google could become the Union Aerospace Corporation or Tessier-Ashpool.

kcbbq dijo:
My favorite thing about this mess is that the same group of people who whined this mess away are probably the ones who were advocating for censoring results from conservative websites on their leaked internal message boards.
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Note that this violated human rights was not a concern of their internal Ministry of Privacy. It is just a turf war and they were upset they weren't allowed in on the action.
 
Visitor dijo:
Because being the first to market matters, if you create something new that's in high demand and suddenly you have a bunch of competitors scrambling to copy you, you're already ahead of all of them, you have momentum, you're in position to keep developing your product, you'll continually have the best thing on the market, that's desirable.
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Balanced by the fact you have 20, 30, 50 years of research costs to pay back before you start turning a profit, while if anyone can immediately snatch your blueprints and put one together because "anyone can" starts out at a profit immediately. People forget why communism fails, if everyone is entitled to everything, nobody strives to do better because they don't get to enjoy the fruits of their labor. Like it or not, personal gain matters. You can't will it away though socio-political system. People will always incentivize themselves over masses.

And the "anyone could have done that" argument is flawed.

Anyone can turn a bolt. KNOWING which one to turn is why my mechanic can charge $70 an hour to do it.
 
TowinKarz dijo:
Balanced by the fact you have 20, 30, 50 years of research costs to pay back before you start turning a profit, while if anyone can immediately snatch your blueprints and put one together because "anyone can" starts out at a profit immediately. People forget why communism fails, if everyone is entitled to everything, nobody strives to do better because they don't get to enjoy the fruits of their labor. Like it or not, personal gain matters. You can't will it away though socio-political system. People will always incentivize themselves over masses.

And the "anyone could have done that" argument is flawed.

Anyone can turn a bolt. KNOWING which one to turn is why my mechanic can charge $70 an hour to do it.
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I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly. What about my position is similar to communism? This is a capitalist position. I'm not talking about willing anything away through the socio-political system, I'm talking about simply NOT using force. And if not anyone can snatch a blueprint and put the thing together then doesn't that seem to undermine the idea that copycats will immediately eat all the profits? I don't think it took Apple 20, 30 or 50 years of research to develop the iPhone either, all of our new technology is built on the back of whatever came before it, before they started selling iPhones they were selling iPods, whatever portion of what you've already created goes into what you make in the future, it's already there for you. The R&D cost is only that huge if you look at that cumulative sum as if they had to spend all of it developing one product, that isn't how it works in reality though. It's like looking at the development of a burger from mcdonalds as if the company first had to domesticate the cow, invent agriculture and discover fire.
 
The Silicon Valley Tech companies and Democrats in the 90's : "The Chinese communist party are crazy for saying that it's possible to censor the Internet to keep out foreign influences and anything that questions their narrative. We think they'll eventually realise that they need to have an uncensored net like the USA does"

The Silicon Valley Tech companies and Democrats after the 2016 election : "We need to do more to stop hate speech and Russian fake news on the Internet and implement something like the Chinese use because it leads to nasty things like Trump and BREXIT. If tech companies can't do it on their own we'll need government regulation"

At some point the left turned into the exact opposite of liberal - they looked over at China, decided that the Chinese elite don't have to worry about unexpected election and referendum results and decided that whether by corporate oligarchy or government, anyone who disagreed with Democrat approved lines on an ever expanding range of issues needed to be kicked off the net.
 
Gustav Schuchardt dijo:
The Silicon Valley Tech companies and Democrats in the 90's : "The Chinese communist party are crazy for saying that it's possible to censor the Internet to keep out foreign influences and anything that questions their narrative. We think they'll eventually realise that they need to have an uncensored net like the USA does"

The Silicon Valley Tech companies and Democrats after the 2016 election : "We need to do more to stop hate speech and Russian fake news on the Internet and implement something like the Chinese use because it leads to nasty things like Trump and BREXIT. If tech companies can't do it on their own we'll need government regulation"

At some point the left turned into the exact opposite of liberal - they looked over at China, decided that the Chinese elite don't have to worry about unexpected election and referendum results and decided that whether by corporate oligarchy or government, anyone who disagreed with Democrat approved lines on an ever expanding range of issues needed to be kicked off the net.
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The establishment left and Silicon Valley in particular went full on into crazytown because they realized that the average person thinks they're fucking insane and has no interest in their shithead identity politics horse-shit. They can't win in any field but a situation they have absolutely, complete, 100% control over, and they fucking know it.

Fact is, they're simply a bigger version of what happens when the religion of intersectionality takes over a community - it gets ruled by a bunch of fucking sociopaths who only maintain the power they do because they have admin privileges and the community does not. Like I've always said - they've never been numerous and they've never had anything even close to a majority, meaning any claim to having a mandate they may have is entirely a fucking work of fiction. They know who would completely dominate the discourse on every single fucking site if it weren't for their site-wide dictators: Us.

This is why they shut down comments and ratings on any video they post, because the Internet has spoken, and it's told them to fuck off.
Youtube Rewind 2018 gives you a perfect fucking microcosm of this.

A side-effect of this is that they hate the average person. They legit believe people are too stupid to be allowed to make their own decisions.
Which is why they swore to fight populism starting in 2016.

The good news: Their fucking Utopian visions mean fuck all to the average person. And the harder they push, the more they push people into awareness. Their only win condition from this point onwards is strategic deplatforming, to prevent their opposition from getting a word in edgewise, but fact is the significant majority of people do not use Social Media at all, so they've been forced to try to use every trick at their disposal to strangle out any voice that can go against them, which, paradoxically, only leads more to realize what's going on.
 
I wonder how much of this decision was financially motivated. When China first banned Google, it gave companies like Tencent and Baidu a chance to grow. I always knew there Google's attempt to get back into the Chinese market would fail, I just didn't think it'd end like this.
 
Cho Chan dijo:
All the people realizing how shitty Google is...is it finally Bing’s time to shine?
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Ahem,
askjeeves.jpeg
 
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