Tumblr Shitstorm Thread - Now Female-Presenting-Nipple-Free... We Think

[PorcupineTree]

You have an extremely black and white view of the situation, as well as a black and white view of anyone whose opinion doesn't mirror your own.

??? You're misunderstanding what I said and my comment wasn't directed at you. It's about red flags. Since your personal experience of running into these things seem limited by your own admission, I don't thing you're getting the context here.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this unnecessary dwelling on fiction--and blaming it for society's ills--seems like it's absolving actual criminals and pedophiles of the responsibility for their actions, as well as allowing them to slip through the cracks while people are too busy arguing about cartoons.

Implying that anyone with the power to catch predators is wasting valuable time arguing about this shit on kiwifarms lol.

 

[TenaflyViper]

??? You're misunderstanding what I said and my comment wasn't directed at you.

Maybe not, but you sound an awful lot like the same people that got a videogame I was anticipating in the 90's ("Thrill Kill") to be cancelled because they thought it would turn me into a serial killer.

By your logic, my enjoyment of horror and splatter films is a "red flag". Meanwhile, I am a glorified "goody-two-shoes" (no matter how hard I tried to convince myself otherwise during my "edgy" teenage years). I'm sorry, but there's just too much research out there that discredits the idea that there's a direct correlation between fiction and reality, or that fiction is always an indication of degeneracy (because if that's the case, I'd hate to think of how Nobokov's "Lolita" is considered a piiece of "classic literature"). I'm sure some legitimately bad people DO consume questionable fiction, but that doesn't make them the standard by which to measure the whole of humanity. In fact, according to tens of thousands of brain scans, the brains of criminals/abusers are different than those of the average person, and lack the activity in the prefrontal lobe responsible for empathy, and connecting one's actions to possible consequences. It is the people themselves that are broken--usually by trauma experienced during the bulk of brain development in childhood--and what they consume is irrelevant.

Y'all, I'd just rather someone get their kicks on a drawing than going out and hurting a real kid. I never thought that would be a controversial statement, but here we fucking are.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I’m going to rephrase the violence analogy in an effort to make it more applicable to this situation.

Everybody likes sex.
The reason people look at loli is because they’re getting off on the very specific characteristic that underage kids are involved. It’s a red flag.

Now let’s take a group of US citizens who all like person shooters.
Let’s say, if given the option, there are a few who would exclusively play games where they can murder Americans as members of ISIS. This would also be a red flag.

When I see people who seem familiar with loli and are somehow compelled to defend its existence, I think of cows like Glitchedpuppet who snuck CP and bestiality drawings into her SFW accounts, only for people to find out much later that she was complicit in her husband inviting kids over to fuck their dog. If you look at the people who are still stanning for them, they’ve got social media feeds full of drawn cp too. A good handful are sex offenders as well.

Oh and lately her boyfriend likes to make long sarcastic tweet threads defending fictional CP as well. Guess who also spent his 20s soliciting nudes from kids on bulbapedia?

I’ll take the angry hats now.

That is a horrible argument and comparison. Lolicon and shotacon are merely artwork. That's it. Its fiction. A fantasy. A stylized, unrealistic fantasy. You know, like OTHER PORN. People who like it are no more pedophiles than people who like rape porn are potential rapists (or want to be raped, if that's what you fantasize about). I don't care if someone likes Shota or Loli because its a fantasy, anymore than I give a shit about whether someone likes tentacle porn, rape porn, gorn, vore, etc. Its all fantasy, and animation is great for living out fantasies, especially those that are anatomically, legally, or scientifically impossible. I mean, real life tentacle porn exists, but its as stupid and tacky as you would imagine porn with animatronic tentacles would be. Same with Futanari; it looks fake as fuck in real life porn, but works in animation because it can exist well within the animation medium in a realistic (for animation) way and, as long as you are willing to suspend your disbelief regarding the fact that its animation in the first place, you can get off on it. Some things just work in animation that wouldn't work, or would be gross/horrible/illegal/impossible, in a real world context.

Actual child porn exist in a different continuum entirely because a child ACTUALLY HAS TO BE RAPED to create it, and anyone willing to indulge in it has to understand that fact, be okay with it, and possibly be doing it themselves. That is why its illegal to even own it or distribute, regardless of the circumstances by which you came by it or the reasons you have it. Its to discourage its production. To use an analogy that actually works; I have no problem with people who like anime gorn. Its fake animation and isn't hurting anyone, but it isn't my personal cup of tea. However, I DO have a problem with someone who goes out and shoots a snuff film to get off on it at the expense of someone's life. That is disturbing to me.

 

[TenaflyViper]

However, I DO have a problem with someone who goes out and shoots a snuff film to get off on it at the expense of someone's life. That is disturbing to me.

If it eases your mind a little, the existence of genuine snuff films has yet to be proven. The possibility is there, but as it stands, no real snuff film has ever been uncovered.

 

[PorcupineTree]

By your logic, my enjoyment of horror and splatter films is a "red flag". Meanwhile, I am a glorified "goody-two-shoes" (no matter how hard I tried to convince myself otherwise during my "edgy" teenage years). I'm sorry, but there's just too much research out there that discredits the idea that there's a direct correlation between fiction and reality, or that fiction is always an indication of degeneracy

This thread is going in circles.

Please specify the research if you're going to mention it. You're still misunderstanding my comment but I elaborated in an edit while you were responding so I'm going to leave it at this.

Actual child porn exist in a different continuum entirely because a child ACTUALLY HAS TO BE RAPED to create it, and anyone willing to indulge in it has to understand that fact, be okay with it, and possibly be doing it themselves.

I never said they were the same thing. I'm saying that it's questionable for someone to invest time in materializing a fantasy in which underage kids are violated when regular porn is a more accessible option. If someone has pedophilic urges then they should be getting help rather than fixating on it and deriving pleasure from it. Otherwise it has the potential to escalate into predatory behavior.

The violent videogame thing doesn't seem comparable for reasons that I already explained. If something about what I wrote doesn't make sense then you're welcome to ask. Otherwise I think we're just going to have to disagree.

 

[TenaflyViper]

Otherwise it has the potential to escalate into predatory behavior.
.

I added an edit of my own about brain function and empathy that you might be interested in, because you're assuming it will escalate, rather than be sated. The human brain is extremely complex, and has checks and balances in place that keep people from doing a LOT of shit they might otherwise do, especially if they have an outlet to redirect their energy towards.

Honestly, the fact that the majority of the media I consume is violent as hell is probably why I'm such a cheerful doormat, while you sure do see a lot of motherfuckers harping on fiction that end up being exposed as actual fucking scum-of-the-earth predators. Pretty sure we have multiple threads on that exact kind of person on this forum.

Y'all, I'd just rather people get their kicks on drawings and other fiction than hurting real human beings.

 

[PorcupineTree]

I'm sure some legitimately bad people DO consume questionable fiction, but that doesn't make them the standard by which to measure the whole of humanity. In fact, according to tens of thousands of brain scans, the brains of criminals/abusers are different than those of the average person, and lack the activity in the prefrontal lobe responsible for empathy, and connecting one's actions to possible consequences.

Not... quite a source. But I've heard of this before.

So you're argument is that predators (who usually aren't neurotypical to begin with) are going to be sated by fiction even though their impulse control is damaged? Why has it not worked for the cows on this forum?

 

[TenaflyViper]

Not... quite a source. But I've heard of this before.

So you're argument is that predators (who usually aren't neurotypical to begin with) are going to be sated by fiction even though their impulse control is damaged? Why has it not worked for the cows on this forum?

Because it takes more than being non-neurotypical to create a threat to society. Most often, such people suffered parental abuse/neglect, or underwent severe trauma. The most brain development--the really important shit that essentially molds how you are as a person--occurs from infancy to pre-adolescence. Even mentally fucked-up people aren't all fucked-up in the same way. Gein was quite different from Manson, who was a far cry from Bundy, but all were abused, neglected, or truamatized during their formative years (in fact, it's rather interesting to read about each one's childhood, and notice how their later behavior is deeply influenced by their specific traumas).

I was going to college for forensic psychology, so I've read a lot about this kind of thing. Violent criminals are a curiosity, and they are few and far between compared to the general population BECAUSE it takes so many "ingredients" to make them.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

I never said they were the same thing. I'm saying that it's questionable for someone to invest time in materializing a fantasy in which underage kids are violated when regular porn is a more accessible option.

And once again, you can make the exact same argument with rape porn or any other kind of extreme fetish port, and it will still not be a compelling argument.

Otherwise it has the potential to escalate into predatory behavior.

Since you are asking other people for proof of their statements, do you have any proof of this one? Seems like a statement made in the ether with nothing to back it up. There is no provable link between consuming complete fiction (like movies, tv shows, video games, or porn) and adults committing crimes, nor is there anything that suggest that such fiction induces criminal behavior. Despite the spread of rape porn, violent films, and the like, and the complete inundation of this material via the internet, violent crime and such continues to go down. The human mind is not that simple and it takes a lot more to make someone cross that line into "looking up CP on Tumblr" territory, like actually being molested as a child themselves, or similar childhood trauma.

 

[PorcupineTree]

I was going to college for forensic psychology, so I've read a lot about this kind of thing.

Ok. You were talking about cases of people with impulse control issues caused by damage to the prefrontal lobe. Now you're going off about the diversity of developmental issues caused by child abuse. Are you just regurgitating what you learned in order to establish yourself as an authority?

it takes more than being neurotypical to create a threat to society

Did you mean non-neurotypical?

I'm trying not to be an ass but I don't get why you initially dove into this with so much hostility.

And once again, you can make the exact same argument with rape porn or any other kind of extreme fetish port, and it will still not be a compelling argument.

Since you are asking other people for proof of their statements, do you have any proof of this one? Seems like a statement made in the ether with nothing to back it up.

I just used Glitchedpuppet and her associates as an example one page ago. Another thing I should also add is that the fictional CP was used as a tool to groom kids.

This content shouldn't be circulated on a website that is frequented by children, in a form that is more consumable to children. If it's underage people doing it then that's a different story, but adults shouldn't be distributing or collecting it in these spaces.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Another thing I should also add is that the fictional CP was used as a tool to groom kids.

ANY PORN can be used as a tool to groom kids. That has to be the weakest argument you have made.

This content shouldn't be circulated on a website that is frequented by children, in a form that is more consumable to children. If it's underage people doing it then that's a different story, but adults shouldn't be distributing or collecting it in these spaces.

Once again, you could say the exact same thing about normal porn, so what are you getting at here?

 

[PorcupineTree]

ANY PORN can be used as a tool to groom kids. That has to be the weakest argument you have made.



Once again, you could say the exact same thing about normal porn, so what are you getting at here?

I don’t get why you’re so mad about this.

My point was that it normalizes the idea of pedophilia to kids.

 

[TenaflyViper]

Ok. You were talking about cases of people with impulse control issues caused by damage to the prefrontal lobe. Now you're going off about the diversity of developmental issues caused by child abuse. Are you just regurgitating what you learned in order to establish yourself as an authority?.

Dude...I don't have to be an "authority" to simply know more about a subject than you do because I have an interest in it, and have actually studied it for years, both in and outside of college. But, I suppose I did forget to mention that childhood abuse/trauma directly affects brain development in children, particularly in the prefrontal lobe. Does that make more sense to you now? And yes, I meant non-neurotypical. It is after 3 am where I am.

If I have any hostility in my tone (I certainly don't FEEL "hostile", but okay), it's probably because--as I have already mentioned--I have seen all of this before. And I also know the statistics of violent crime, and that they have dropped considerably alongside our movies and videogames becoming more graphic, and pornography being more easily accessed. Rape, for example, has decreased by over 80% since 1979, in spite of the increased willingness of victims and others in reporting it. Now, if pornography escalated someone's desire to rape, you'd think it would be the other way around, yes? You'd think films like "I Spit on Your Grave" and "Last House on the Left" would be banned and forgotten--not remade decades later.

When it comes to grooming, it's about TRUST. Candy, an interest in model airplanes--literally anything can be used as a tool to groom children. Fan art and fanfiction is dominated by teenage girls and young women: They are the majority of the people producing and consuming fan content, including NSFW. Besides that, children are most at threat from someone close to their family, NOT some stranger online (the worst part is that, statistically, it's their own mothers that are the biggest offenders).

And buddy, are you honestly calling ANYWHERE on the internet a "safe space"? Are you fucking serious right now? If your main concern about the internet is drawings of cartoon characters, you are either really, REALLY fucking sheltered, or don't truly give a fuck about children, because there is WAY worse out there that is just as easy--if not moreso--to access.

Youtube has footage of live suicides (Budd Dwyer), car accident footage (every Red Asphault car safety video), footage of animal slaughter, autopsy footage.... Pornhub and Redtube? Anyone can access those without payment or age verification. Same with places like Bestgore. And have we forgotten the days of "shock sites", where people tricked their friends into seeing things like "goatse" and "tubgirl"? If you weren't aware, tumblr has ALWAYS allowed adult content, as long as it wasn't pornographic video (a lot of video takes up more space, making the site more expensive to host). They have no qualms with nudity or hardcore images--they just don't want to be used as hosting for pay sites.

And anyway, the internet is not a fucking babysitter. Anyone concerned with what their child might see should--at the very least--have parental filters enabled. If you wouldn't trust them walking around downtown on their own, they shouldn't be online on their own. That is 100% on the parents, and no one else. And tumblr's minimum age is 13, which is definitely NOT a "child". In fact, that's past that window of brain development I mentioned before, meaning that what they see as a teen has a lot less impact and influence than anything they'd see as small child. Not to mention that tumblr automatically had Safe Mode enabled for anyone under 18, NSFW blogs don't show up in searches, etc. And if we gon' talk Google, it tailors searches to your search habits, so unless someone's already been looking up suspect shit on that computer, they certainly aren't going to be inundated with piles of porn.

Like, idk how your ass is even on KF with that moral puritan bullshit attitude. You're on a much-hated forum commonly believed to be a den of bullies and trolls, yet coming at me sounding like some crusty ex-soccer mom WASP bitch that wants to talk to my manager. Get the fuck outta here with that.

I don’t get why you’re so mad about this.

My point was that it normalizes the idea of pedophilia to kids.

"Kids" who shouldn't be on the internet unsupervised or without filters in the first place, and who sure as fuck wouldn't be on tumblr, as the age limit there is 13, which is past the bulk of brain development, making them far less likely to be impacted by anything they see online.

Meanwhile, "Lolita" is considered a piece of "classic literature" (there've even been two different film adaptations), yet pedophilia is still so hated in our culture that pedos are usually killed when sent to prison, because even rapists, murderers, and drug dealers won't tolerate them. Ain't nothing gonna "normalize" that--a fucking NOVEL that is STILL IN PRINT didn't "normalize" it, so what the fuck makes you think Stacy's fan art with 5 notes is gonna do that?

Stop comparing teenage girls making dirty doodles of their anime OTP to real children being physically abused, degraded, and exploited, because that's honestly fucking offensive.

I am so sorry for shitting up this thread with so much text, but it's like 4 a.m., I can't sleep for shit, it's really difficult for me to be concise with my words, and I am just so goddamn tired of the same "fiction causes ______" shit that I've put up with for DECADES. Let's please just focus on the real pieces of shit physically assaulting and exploiting flesh and blood children instead of trying to make this about CARTOON CHARACTERS.

 

[PorcupineTree]

I am so sorry for shitting up this thread with so much text, but it's like 4 a.m., I can't sleep for shit, it's really difficult for me to be concise with my words, and I am just so goddamn tired of the same "fiction causes ______" shit that I've put up with for DECADES. Let's please just focus on the real pieces of shit physically assaulting and exploiting flesh and blood children instead of trying to make this about CARTOON CHARACTERS.

Again, not what I was saying.

It’s sorry you’re offended by my opinion that fictional cp isn’t cool, but you need to stop flipping out and putting words in my mouth.

 

[Yutyrannus]

I am so sorry for shitting up this thread with so much text, but it's like 4 a.m., I can't sleep for shit, it's really difficult for me to be concise with my words, and I am just so goddamn tired of the same "fiction causes ______" shit that I've put up with for DECADES.

Go outside. You're mad on the internet and writing whole ass dissertations about it.

Anyways, back on topic, there has been a serious influx of MAPs on twitter in the wake of this since they feel persecuted by Tumblr. A lot of them are young teenagers (13-16). How can a teen consider themselves a MAP if they are a minor??

 

[neverendingmidi]

Go outside. You're mad on the internet and writing whole ass dissertations about it.

Anyways, back on topic, there has been a serious influx of MAPs on twitter in the wake of this since they feel persecuted by Tumblr. A lot of them are young teenagers (13-16). How can a teen consider themselves a MAP if they are a minor??

They either are attracted to people their own age and tumblr has screwed their heads up so much that they think any attraction to minors, even if they are the same age and/or are peers, is MAP behavior (remember that to tumblr shipping a 17 year old with an 18 year old is pedophilia), or more horrifyingly they are attracted to toddlers and have been incubated by the tumblr MAP society to be open about more fucked up shit than they otherwise would've encountered.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

They either are attracted to people their own age and tumblr has screwed their heads up so much that they think any attraction to minors, even if they are the same age and/or are peers, is MAP behavior (remember that to tumblr shipping a 17 year old with an 18 year old is pedophilia), or more horrifyingly they are attracted to toddlers and have been incubated by the tumblr MAP society to be open about more fucked up shit than they otherwise would've encountered.

Honestly, its probably more the former than the latter. I don't think there are too many teenagers into screwing children or toddlers, but Tumblr may have them feeling some type of way about their very normal attraction for people in their age group. Though, at least from what I gathered on this thread, MAP behavior is not tolerated on Twitter as well as it is on Tumblr, so maybe being forced off that reservation will knock some sense into them.

I don’t get why you’re so mad about this.

My point was that it normalizes the idea of pedophilia to kids.

Why do you think I'm mad? Also, you did a poor job making your point, which is why I kept asking you questions. I wasn't angry with you, if that's what you thought. Can't speak for the other guy, though.

 

[TenaflyViper]

Again, not what I was saying.

It’s sorry you’re offended by my opinion that fictional cp isn’t cool, but you need to stop flipping out and putting words in my mouth.

Dude, if all you said was that it's "not cool", I'd fully agree with you. But what you said is that it "normalizes" pedophilia, causes behavior to escalate, and other unsubstantiated claims that have already been discredited both by science, and U.S. constitutional law. I'm not "offended", nor is it "flipping out" to calmly explain facts (which, unsurprisingly, require additional text to explain). Unlike you, I just know how to ACCEPT those facts.

And for the record, I'm not a guy.

 

[Vandy]

Honestly, its probably more the former than the latter. I don't think there are too many teenagers into screwing children or toddlers, but Tumblr may have them feeling some type of way about their very normal attraction for people in their age group. Though, at least from what I gathered on this thread, MAP behavior is not tolerated on Twitter as well as it is on Tumblr, so maybe being forced off that reservation will knock some sense into them.

You'd hope, but that's unfortunately not what I've seen whenever I've stumbled upon MAP blogs. (Usually in the form of callout posts and sometimes through the Farms.)

Of course they also claim things such as "asexuality" and "age regression" as to why they are somehow not creepy as fuck and gives them an excuse.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

Y'all, I'd just rather someone get their kicks on a drawing than going out and hurting a real kid. I never thought that would be a controversial statement, but here we fucking are.

I don't see why lolicon or shotacon should have to be directly harmful to others or lead to the person consuming it to become harmful before I can shit on them. It's no different from when we shit on dozens of other degenerates, what makes pedophiles so special they don't just deserve it anyway?