Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

"It represents the forced heterosexual narrative...It stands in direct contrast to the healthier, more natural, queer relation the game presents with Susie and Noelle. One that builds through trust and freedom"
This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life.

1)
There's an unused item called the "GildedRose" which is a ring for Noelle in the files of Ch5, it's basically a fancy thornring but none of the thorns are pointed inwards so it doesn't hurt the wearer.

Noelle's dialogue for it is "Finally, something I actually want to wear!"

Gilded (golden) roses specifically represent everlasting love.


There's literally a fucking wedding ring in this game that Kris can give to Noelle that she says she wants to wear lmao.

The reason the weird route is bad relationship-wise isn't because it's le hecking heteronormative, a good version of Kriselle already exists in this game. It's bad because it's an explicitly abusive relationship. There's fucking rape symbolism involved and it culminates with a murder-suicide.

2)
Calling Suselle "natural" when it's the most blatantly forced relationship in the entire game is wild. Even the game itself comments on how they aren't actually all that compatible and are rushing the relationship (like with Susie brute-forcing the hammer game, or their Ferris wheel only going halfway instead of to the top like when Kris and Noelle do it)

Suselle is not "built on trust and freedom" beyond the most surface level teenager way. They were both hiding their feelings from each other despite it directly harming someone else (Kris) and half the scenes where their relationship developed were either lied about retroactively, built on deception, or sudden happenstance.

In what way is their relationship "built on trust"? At all? They never spoke until fate outright forced them together, their first big scene together was treated like it wasn't real, their second big scene together was Susie distracting Noelle so Kris could snoop around after lying about doing a project together, and their third big scene together was because of a spur-of-the-moment "fuck you" to Carol that Susie didn't even plan.

Even the lake scene has wishy washy shit like "whatever way you like me, I like you too". Even in their confession scene there's degrees of obfuscation.

The only reason Susie is even telling Noelle about the Dark Worlds NOW is because they made googoo eyes at each other, not because there's genuine trust there. Susie has no idea how Noelle is going to handle learning about the Dark Worlds, let alone how useful she'd be there.


Not only that, but their relationship was LITERALLY FUCKING PROPHESIED. "Built on freedom" my asshole. Suselle is them falling into their predestined roles in accordance with their prewritten destinies in a magical all-encompassing prophecy. It's the polar opposite of being built on freedom.
 
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Xitter. And I have faith it will work out. Kris's defensiveness of Noelle throughout the entire game sticks out to me. Why is there a photo album in Chapter 5 that Kris slams shut every time he sees old pictures of him and Noelle? He doesn't have a problem seeing old memories with him and Asriel, Asgore, or Toriel. It's specifically memories of Noelle that bothers him for some reason.

Japanese artists always have the best UT/DR fanwork. It's a shame it's almost all in moonspeak, though some are considerate enough to go wordless.
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Suselle is not built on "trust and freedom" beyond the most surface level teenager way. They were both hiding their feelings from each other despite it directly harming someone else (Kris) and their relationship only "started" because of their interactions in Chapter 2, which Susie lied about and pretended weren't real. Susie lied to Noelle about doing projects together so her and Kris could snoop around her house.
Because the people who buy into that "queer everything" shit nowadays are teenagers. Freedom is when you do things that mommy and daddy hate.

I mentioned this before, but I dabble in FNF. The amount of mods for that game that end up abandoned because the creators "no longer have time due to starting college" is comical, and more often than not there's some sort of LGBT content in them.
 
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1) There's an unused item called the "GildedRose" which is a ring for Noelle in the files of Ch5, it's basically a fancy thornring but none of the thorns are pointed inwards so it doesn't hurt the wearer.

Noelle's dialogue for it is "Finally, something I actually want to wear!"
Not everyone is as in-tune to the meta, so please provide evidence.

Also, Susie and Ralsei give interesting comments when trying to equip the GildedRose:

Damn, if only it fit! [When attempting to equip it on Susie]
Noelle... could equip this. [When attempting to equip it on Ralsei]
So there we have it--Ralsei ships Kruselle.
 
This is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in my life.
To be fair I'm pretty sure the guy who just made the video was autistic and trying to placate the fandom.
because the thesis of his video was pretty much that Kriselle isn't inherently a bad thing and it could work out, it doesn't have to be abusive.
He just undermined his own video with retardation at the end. This is very common behaviour from troons and autists
 
If Kris ends up being confirmed to be female, I am going to laugh the heartiest last laugh anyone ever will have heard.
I noticed that enbies are switched to male pronouns when they do something bad or to call them out. Seems to fit with Kris too.

Notable in that we got a light world battle segment (it wasn't really clear against who), which was still Deltarune-styled but had the Undertale color scheme to the UI. Also, Kris had actual dialogue during a moment where the soul wasn't around, which took place in a fully-animated and voiced cutscene at that
So, Omori? Sadly it won't happen. You'll get more insufferable gay shit and you'll like it! Asgore will die/be humiliated like a chump for no reason other than screw men, and you'll love it!!!

I know at the very least some of the wiki editors were pissy at having to rectify his pronoun field and remove all those "they" citations.
That's why it won't happen. Toby risks being Rowling'd and be unable to work with troons ever again.

There's fucking rape symbolism involved and it culminates with a murder-suicide.
Funny how it's the girl overpowering you if you try to resist.

Not everyone is as in-tune to the meta, so please provide evidence.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Troon squad edited this out cuz it intruded on their narrative.
 
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So, Omori? Sadly it won't happen. You'll get more insufferable gay shit and you'll like it! Asgore will die/be humiliated like a chump for no reason other than screw men, and you'll like i1
Nothing like Omori, actually. It was actually a realistic art style, if you can believe that. I can't remember much, it just got really surreal and psychedelic after a certain point: some incomprehensible character kept calling Kris "Ron" for some reason, and I think said character was voiced by Jack Black.
 
i came up with something schizophrenic. i don't really know what to think of it
THIS. I think this entire scene is an allegory to forgotten man being killed by gaster. a black/white figure with holes in it's hands kills a man and there is a fucking tree. black knife belonged to HIM until he somehow replaced and became the angel, modifying the original timeline and got trapped in the depths aka angel's heaven that we are supposed to BANISH with the LIGHT because it's an OCEAN OF DARKNESS. this story is full of frauds who steal someone else's place in life, that fucking susie "new girl" gaster copies her dad's behavior fully.

oh and, susie's title in the power menu becomes "Dark Knight" in chapter 2. she is going to kill kris eventually ain't she? it happened before and it'll happen again, forgotten man could've also think that gaster is his friend only to be murdered in cold blood. susie already began equipping ribbons, but soon it'll escalate to swords and then you'll know that kris is absolutely fucked. dragon betrays and kills a knight, replacing him and becoming the knight. just like how flowery (a human) gets killed by a knight, just like how gaster took forgotten man's place. that's why gerson said susie holds a white pen of hope, kris is the knight with a pen of light(soul) but susie will steal and absorb it to become a beast with unfathomable power.

holy fuck toby what the HELL are you cooking??? how evil susie theory is STILL gaining more evidence? is gaster ACTUALLY susie's dad? even if that parallel between betrayals of susie-kris and gaster-man i made is pure unfiltered schizophrenic episode, susie is STILL going to become an antagonist eventually.

however, if susie would suddenly start equipping swords, i will scream that I WAS FUCKING RIGHT.
 
deflowering metaphor being erased due to rape allegories on a teenage deer girl (big no no...unless they are male then its perfectly reasonable I guess) and all of chapter 5.
I feel like that change is better in hindsight with Asgore's "THAT HORRIBLE DAY" speech, with all the corkboard evidence strings piercing him, playing the ThornRing's sfx, and even resembling the crack pattern. Feels more like a quick retcon now instead of outright censorship, made to draw parallels between Weird Route and how THAT DAY changed him as if it was something that also was not supposed to happen.
some incomprehensible character kept calling Kris "Ron" for some reason, and I think said character was voiced by Jack Black.
Jack Black walks out from behind a tree
"I....AM THE FORGOTTEN MAN."
 
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Really funny video because the guy desperately wants to critisize chapter 5 but is scared so shitless of the lunatics in the deltarune cult that he spends the first 3 minutes of the video profusely apologizing and reassuring them that he is a real fan and he loves the game and he isn't a hater and please don't send assassins to his house.
 
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