Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Jerry1337]

(L/A)
Shit they're onto us lads

I don't know what it is with gender blobs and with their inability to understand that things can be enjoyed by a varied audience. They often fail to see how most people who enjoy the same things as them are not particularly keen on caring for neo-vags and faggot sex. They always proclaim that something they like is 'theirs' and that it affirms their world-view, which isn't at all the case. You can see their way of thinking here, with Deltarune and Undertale, but it's also very prominent with e.g., Dark Souls, Fallout New Vegas, Minecraft, Terraria, and Stardew Valley. They often create obnoxious memes and posts about vidya, heavily leaning into gender identity. They do this, despite every single one of these games being universally acclaimed by the wider gaming community, which makes these retards the minority on the grand scale of things. And they will still claim that 'You just don't hecking get it! Ralsei is definitely a cute princess trans girl!' or scream 'Muh media literacy crisis!' when you dare to criticize or even show support for the game you like, while being a chud.
Ironically, this is happening in the comment section of the reddit post I'm quoting.

Essentially, the reason why they are attaching their personality to something so trivial is because they're spergs. They have no life outside of gooning, playing video games, and actively being groomed by some other lowlife on discord. In this case, it's very easy for them to latch onto this game, because it features a 'le hecking wholesome lesbian couple!!11' and 'le hecking cute androgynous main character!111' so this would always be the case.

Also,

Their lack of self-awareness is just so funny.

 

[Two Dollars]

Their lack of self-awareness is just so funny.

“Funny” is not the word I’d use. I’m tired, boss. I’ve been tired of far-left extremists crying out in pain as they take over things I like for about a decade now.

Undertale never went this far. It had the royal guards and Alphys/Undyne, but the crackships and overall gayness never went beyond “kinda weird but I guess I can skip through the dialogue at these specific parts of the game”. Even its supposedly-infamously-bad-at-the-time fandom was nothing compared to Deltarune’s fandom today, and its biggest crime outside of a few bad actors was being too vocal about it being the greatest game ever made.

 

[Cryogonal2]

i agree, i hate it when politically rotted nimrods take something simple and claim it as their own for one reason or another. i do not care which way they are politically rotted, either. i also hate when they disown something for not representing them to a t, like lefties claiming smiling friends as right wing or righties claiming deltarune as left wing. your politics are not relevant here. there is gay in deltarune but there is no weird political detour in the plot like "mayor holiday just passed a new ordinance outlawing homosexuality in hometown" where toby fox appears on screen and tells you how bad homophobia is.

 

[Puck Clown]

A point for evil Susie theory

 

[Jerry1337]

“Funny” is not the word I’d use. I’m tired, boss. I’ve been tired of far-left extremists crying out in pain as they take over things I like for about a decade now.

Undertale never went this far.

Here's the thing. In my own opinion, this push Toby Fox did with Susie and Noelle shenanigans in chapter 5 just doesn't seem like something he would do just to please a certain agenda or just to please his lesbian fetish. I still believe that the relations between those two can still go south in the next chapters or just not be a certain 'gimmie.' The way this latest chapter pushes you and Kris to be a handmaiden to this weird carpet-munching fantasy is very odd, even for Toby Fox. And there are certain parts in this game that could indicate that it's not going to be all sunshine and rainbows in the end for them. So I can't fully write this chapter off as 'It's over. Toby Fox officially joined the troon gang,' because there's still a lot of ambiguity about this thing, and chapters 1 to 4 have been really fucking good.

And even if it will end the way we are thinking it's going to end, many people will not be a fan of it. There will surely be a lot of mods and reinterpretations of the story in standalone fan games. So I wouldn't lose hope just yet. Not to mention, weird route exists.

 

[Point 707]

One can easily interpret Kris using they/them pronouns as a way to show Kris's total lack of a stable identity. He's the only human in a town full of monsters, and is an antisocial weirdo to boot. Basically all his positive interactions with anyone were just riding off his popular brother's coattails and now that Asriel's gone, he has no more friends, at least until the SOUL takes over.

He's not a monster, but he has no idea how to be 'human' either. He has a quasi-antagonistic relationship with the SOUL that controls him most of the time, and he seems fine with it as long as the SOUL takes him on fun adventures and makes him look like a cool hero in the dark worlds.

I almost feel like Toby is secretly chudding out a bit here, he's giving the gender goblins representation in the form of a deeply alienated and mentally unwell person, someone so detached from humanity that he doesn't even have a gendered pronoun, gender being a fundamental part of humanity. Probably just wishful thinking though.

I'm only using the masculine pronoun here bc it's easier to type.

 

[Dracula]

And even if it will end the way we are thinking it's going to end, many people will not be a fan of it. There will surely be a lot of mods and reinterpretations of the story in standalone fan games. So I wouldn't lose hope just yet. Not to mention, weird route exists.

"Dragon Blazers" fangame, based on the prophesy could work.

 

[Mai]

Where can I find good Kriselle art/comics? I'm the one retard still holding out hope for it to work out

 

[The Blue Room]

Where can I find good Kriselle art/comics? I'm the one retard still holding out hope for it to work out

Xitter. And I have faith it will work out. Kris's defensiveness of Noelle throughout the entire game sticks out to me. Why is there a photo album in Chapter 5 that Kris slams shut every time he sees old pictures of him and Noelle? He doesn't have a problem seeing old memories with him and Asriel, Asgore, or Toriel. It's specifically memories of Noelle that bothers him for some reason.

Spoiler: Kriselle Kino

 

[Two Dollars]

Where can I find good Kriselle art/comics? I'm the one retard still holding out hope for it to work out

I’m still impressed at how Suselle was handled so poorly that it became less popular, Susie in general was handled so poorly and retconned into always being obsessed with Noelle that it made Krusie less popular, and Kris and Noelle had such strong chemistry whenever Susie wasn’t involved that Kriselle became more popular. I think this is the complete opposite reaction from what Toby was going for.

 

[Coolio55]

This is the dumbest fucking Toby theory yet and I might have already posted it here but I digress.
Toby was probably introduced to "In and Out Crowd" by the mid-90's edutainment game, "Sesame Street: Numbers" - which came with it on the disc.
Toby posted footage of himself playing another 90's edutainment game on twitter so it wouldn't be too far fetched.
OTOH: Sally Cruikshank (the person who animated the video) is apparently considered a cult figure.

 

[Slumbie]

Along with that Dreemur boy you like so much that you don't mind him hanging out at your house when you're away

You know, I always wondered if she was also talking to the Soul/Player.

 

[Moral Decay]

I don't know what it is with gender blobs and with their inability to understand that things can be enjoyed by a varied audience.

These are the same people who purity spiral and cancel creators and each other over doing One Bad Thing. Or sometimes even Not Good Enough Thing. They cannot separate art from the artist, so the idea that someone can is completely alien to them.

It's funny, though, because it seems to me that a lot of UT/DR fans are either secret chuds or else just enjoy their edgy humor. A lot of commenters on the subreddit post memes that say faggot, the ones where Noelle makes fun of asexuals and enbies, or even just outright express a fondness for slurs... and these comments are usually highly upvoted.

 

[L.V. Danslalune]

I wonder how Carol is doing in the Weird Route. Your oldest child has been missing for years, at this point you’re just trying to get closure. Your husband’s condition gets even worse, he’s going to die soon. Your youngest daughter who you’ve been trying to protect randomly disappears leaving no clues as to where she went.

Genuinely a horrifying prospect of losing your whole family in one day.

I remember seeing a comic somewhere of Carol being involved in the SOUL possessing Kris, to try and get Dess back. All of that effort not only went to waste, it basically left you off worse than before. This isn't a "Chara made me do it" kind of situation, it's a "you let me do it, so you bear some responsibility for what happened." If this is the case I've always wondered if she actually knew this was a possibility and was gambling on it not happening.

 

[Star Classic]

Here's the thing. In my own opinion, this push Toby Fox did with Susie and Noelle shenanigans in chapter 5 just doesn't seem like something he would do just to please a certain agenda or just to please his lesbian fetish. I still believe that the relations between those two can still go south in the next chapters or just not be a certain 'gimmie.' The way this latest chapter pushes you and Kris to be a handmaiden to this weird carpet-munching fantasy is very odd, even for Toby Fox. And there are certain parts in this game that could indicate that it's not going to be all sunshine and rainbows in the end for them. So I can't fully write this chapter off as 'It's over. Toby Fox officially joined the troon gang,' because there's still a lot of ambiguity about this thing, and chapters 1 to 4 have been really fucking good.

And even if it will end the way we are thinking it's going to end, many people will not be a fan of it. There will surely be a lot of mods and reinterpretations of the story in standalone fan games. So I wouldn't lose hope just yet. Not to mention, weird route exists.

I dunno man, even if Toby was bold enough to push against the dismal tide that, let's be honest, he's been working with. No amount of gotchas or plot twists is going to make any of the scenes work for me. Maybe you guys can sit through them, but for me all they do is make me feel visceral disgust and miserable afterwards. Chapter 2 has easily been my least favorite so far because of this. There is nothing that Toby can add onto the later plot that will make the actual moment to moment interactions bearable. There is no world where the Ferris wheel scene makes me feel something other than despair.

He's not a monster, but he has no idea how to be 'human' either. He has a quasi-antagonistic relationship with the SOUL that controls him most of the time, and he seems fine with it as long as the SOUL takes him on fun adventures and makes him look like a cool hero in the dark worlds.

Hmmmm, sounds like a certain some else.


well, i'll be straight-forward with you.
my brother'd really like to see a human...
so, y'know, it'd really help me out...
if you kept pretending to be one.

 

[whitepeoplecankles]

anyone else kinda sold on Asriel Knight at this point? not just that we're playing the "parallel story", but it feels the most 'right' in my head. Dess makes so much more sense as a ghost-in-the-code meta character, maybe through some side-b shenanigan shit

 

[Colon capital V]

well, i'll be straight-forward with you.
my brother'd really like to see a human...
so, y'know, it'd really help me out...
if you kept pretending to be one.

Probably one of my favorite lines from sans, maybe even the whole game. Wish Toby had more biting lines like these.

 

[Bixnood]

 

[Star Classic]

Probably one of my favorite lines from sans, maybe even the whole game. Wish Toby had more biting lines like these.

That was something that actually caught me off guard going back through UT recently. There were several moments and lines in the neutral and genocide routes that had me going "oh shit" audibly. When Toby sets his mind to it, he excels at writing horror. I'd kind of forgotten how creepy UT actually is. There's this underlying sense of dread that hangs over everything.

Shame I can't really say the same for DR beyond the like first and last 30 minutes of chapter 1, or the few hidden areas. I haven't played Weird Route yet, no sense without the full game.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

'Muh media literacy crisis!'

I find it funny that they're shitting out two conflicting positions on the same group of people.

You can't declare that Da Chuds only like it because they have no le media literacy AND accuse them of being "Larpers".

If they were larpers then they'd just be pretending to be fans and everything they say would be bullshit and insincere. They don't actually care about the game and their analysis of it is would be completely made up or stolen from somewhere else.

For the problem to be MUH HECKING MEDIA LITERACY they would need to be seriously engaging with the media but getting it wrong. If they're just "larping" then they wouldn't be doing that.

Pick a side. Are they fake fans or real fans that are dumb?