Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

'Muh media literacy crisis!'

I find it funny that they're shitting out two conflicting positions on the same group of people.

You can't declare that Da Chuds only like it because they have no le media literacy AND accuse them of being "Larpers".

If they were larpers then they'd just be pretending to be fans and everything they say would be bullshit and insincere. They don't actually care about the game and their analysis of it is would be completely made up or stolen from somewhere else.

For the problem to be MUH HECKING MEDIA LITERACY they would need to be seriously engaging with the media but getting it wrong. If they're just "larping" then they wouldn't be doing that.

Pick a side. Are they fake fans or real fans that are dumb?

 

[Usean Allied Forces]

I find it funny they're shitting out two conflicting positions on the same group of people.

You can't declare that Da Chuds only like it because they have no le media literacy AND accuse them of being "Larpers".

If they were larpers then they'd just be pretending to be fans and everything they say would be bullshit and insincere. They don't actually care about the game and heir analysis of it is completely made up.

For the problem to be MUH HECKING MEDIA LITERACY they would need to be seriously engaging with the media but getting it wrong. If they're larping then they wouldn't be doing that.

The power of doublethink knows no bounds

 

[Puck Clown]

"Dragon Blazers" fangame, based on the prophesy could work.

Not quite, but this is the closest we have right now.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

"Dragon Blazers" fangame, based on the prophesy could work.

It exists and it's called SOULBLAZERS

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

The power of doublethink knows no bounds

I mean just think about it for a second. If I was talking about LOTR and I said something that was blatantly wrong about it, like how the point of the story is that Sauron represents Israel and the ending is Frodo going to Agartha, then the reason behind that interpretation couldn't be both larping and a lack of media literacy. It would need to be one or the other.

Because if I were larping then I wouldn't have even read the books/seen the movies to begin with, didn't finish them, or did finish them but didn't actually analyze them, because I'm not an actual fan. I'm just pretending to be one for the sake of publicity or trolling. I don't actually care about the media I'm talking about.

But if the problem were a lack of media literacy then I would've had to have actually read the books/watched the movies and came away with the nonsensical interpretation all on my own first. Which... wouldn't be larping. Larpers don't do that, I would still be an actual fan engaging with the media as a fan would, just in a dumbass way.

I would be trying to engage with the media I enjoy earnestly but get it completely wrong.

These are two distinct things.

The only reason I can think of for someone accusing you of being both a larper and media illiterate simultaneously is because both labels are bad in fandom so joining them together is theoretically some kind of mega-double insult. Like calling someone a retarded knowitall.

Then again these are redditors so.

 

[The Blue Room]

It's a common internet phenomenon where any pejorative mutates into a meaningless buzzword insult once it becomes popular enough. I think it happens because people want to use the "cool new slang" but they couldn't be bothered to look up what it actually means so they use it the wrong way.

The internet media literacy crisis, which is worse now than it's ever been, is mainly due to eisegesis; projecting your own beliefs and political agenda into media. People's identities are so strongly tied to the media they consume that not only do people shape their own lives around the media, but they contort their perception of the media to fit their personal beliefs. Deltarune fans are a perfect example of this there's dozens of examples linked in this thread alone.

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

That was something that actually caught me off guard going back through UT recently. There were several moments and lines in the neutral and genocide routes that had me going "oh shit" audibly. When Toby sets his mind to it, he excels at writing horror. I'd kind of forgotten how creepy UT actually is. There's this underlying sense of dread that hangs over everything.

Shame I can't really say the same for DR beyond the like first and last 30 minutes of chapter 1, or the few hidden areas. I haven't played Weird Route yet, no sense without the full game.

weird route and secrets are the 2 reasons why im still playing deltarune. thats where all the ut-esque mystery feeling is concentrated
hope you havent had it spoiled for you entirely if you havent played it yet because its truly good shit when you dont know whats coming

 

[X Prime]

But if the problem were a lack of media literacy then I would've had to have actually read the books/watched the movies and came away with the nonsensical interpretation all on my own first. Which... wouldn't be larping. Larpers don't do that, I would still be an actual fan engaging with the media as a fan would, just in a dumbass way.

I point out that the calculus changes for video games since you can LARP as a fan by just watching playthroughs.

 

[Various Shades of Brown]

Concept art from Toby posted a few hours ago. I really hope Flowery, Aqua and Seth are the only flowers he designed...

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

When Toby sets his mind to it, he excels at writing horror.

I think the ERAM/sword route stuff was pretty well done in that regard too

well, i'll be straight-forward with you.
my brother'd really like to see a human...
so, y'know, it'd really help me out...
if you kept pretending to be one.

Fun fact: Sans was supposed to say that about Kris in the weird route, but Toby realised the troons would lynch him if you implied their self-insert "Enby" was invalid or "pretending" in any capacity, so he decided against it.

Besides that, I do think Sans is a pretty good character. There's a reason he's so popular. Sans is powerful but coy, he's cool but not try hard, and he has some level of "angst" in his character but it's not particularly overt and not overshadowed by retarded therapy terms. I think he's just fairly interesting to put it bluntly.
Of course a lot of people pervert this by making Sans overtly edgy/angsty and or trans (I've seen this popular Undertale artist project onto sans as trans), and this is especially evident in "AU's" and all that nonsense, but the original character in Undertale is still good

Also on a more Deltarune related note, I do wonder if his dislike of promises come from a promise he made with the gaster gang that ended badly for him (I.E ended with him being stuck in undertale) or something.

 

[Peru oso donas]

Concept art from Toby posted a few hours ago. I really hope Flowery, Aqua and Seth are the only flowers he designed...

Seth looking mighty masculine in that concept art, you think he pulled and Alphys with him and changed him to plausibly female/nonbinary later on so people would be more receptive towards him? Either way Seth always looked like the greasy long haired troon archetype to me

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

Concept art from Toby posted a few hours ago. I really hope Flowery, Aqua and Seth are the only flowers he designed...

Seth actually seems like she could be a boy here, or perhaps just a very ugly girl.
Though the long hair still makes it clear Seth is a woman

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Toby is just really weird with pronouns. Every human in both game's stories and lore has been called a they, even though we know Toby himself referred to Frisk as a boy behind the scenes.

Then he takes a grizzled cat named "Shawn" that couldn't be any more male-coded and goes "achually Seam is a they/them too " in a random journal.

It feels so random, and as far as I know it's never acknowledged in-universe so it feels like really odd pandering, if it even is. Not that the ambiguity stops the fanbase from being as militant as humanly possible about it as though Kris looked directly at the camera and said "I am a nonbinary gender blob and you need to respect my pronouns, bigot."

 

[Nameless One]

Have some vantawhite Aryan gems.

0:15

0:11

2:42

 

[San Marino]

It feels so random, and as far as I know it's never acknowledged in-universe so it feels like really odd pandering. Not that that stops the fanbase from being as militant as humanly possible about it as though Kris looked directly at the camera and said "I am a nonbinary gender blob and you need to respect my pronouns, bigot."

Now that I think about it, has Toby even used the phrase "non-binary" at any point?

 

[Usean Allied Forces]

It feels so random, and as far as I know it's never acknowledged in-universe so it feels like really odd pandering, if it even is.

My personal pet theory is that monsters can't comprehend that humans and souls are one singular being because human souls are incomprehensibly stronger in comparison to monster souls so they call all humans "they" regardless if they're genderspecials or not

---

I've seen this popular Undertale artist project onto sans as trans

Excuse me, what the fuck?

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Now that I think about it, has Toby even used the phrase "non-binary" at any point?

If he has I can't remember it.

I just don't get why people latch onto Kris being non-binary as this 100% confirmed aspect of the character that must be "corrected" at all times as though Kris were a real person, when as far as we know Humans in the Foxiverse may not even have genders or are all called "they" because Monsters legit can't tell the sexes apart. Kris being referred to as "they" 527 times on the wiki doesn't actually confirm or deny anything because EVERY human is referred to that way.

Toby never fucking tells us why.

I mean if every single human character we ever see or hear about are all hecking valid enbies then what the fuck does being an enby even mean in this universe? It's certainly not some special unique part of their identity given how seemingly universal and mundane it is.

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

Excuse me, what the fuck?

the bloke or bloke-ess (not bothering to check) who drew that "Doctor Megalo" comic talks about sans being trans or whatever. Just retarded goycattle shit

I just don't get why people latch onto Kris being non-binary as this 100% confirmed aspect of the character that must be "corrected" at all times as though Kris were a real person

>Why are trannies on the internet being mentally deranged?
I don't know mate, who could have seen this coming?
I would say it beggars belief how profoundly retarded the socially parasitic gender spergs are, but frankly they've been in every facet of social life for so long I think you'd be foolish if you're still surprised at how retarded they are.

Fact is Kris isn't even specified to be Non-binary, the fandom is just retarded. Toby could literally just want it to be up to interpretation (which would be dumb but thats still less dumb than going "actually biology isn't real CHUD") and we wouldn't know.

I mean I just saw the first reply to that Toby fox tweet being a Palestinian sans pfp. Bluesky users are actually subhuman.

 

[Usean Allied Forces]

I mean I just saw the first reply to that Toby fox tweet being a Palestinian sans pfp. Bluesky users are actually subhuman.

We need to send all the pali pfp people to Gaza and have the entire strip walled off forcing them into a fight for survival Tarkov style

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Toby could literally just want it to be up to interpretation

I mean that's literally why he made Frisk and Kris yellow.

They aren't canonically jaundiced, so the characters being up to player interpretation to at least some degree is already established for both.

Again Toby called Frisk a boy behind the scenes but still made it "they/them" in the actual game, so the concept of him calling a character that even he doesn't think of as nonbinary by nonbinary pronouns for the sake of ambiguity isn't exactly out there.


As far as I know the only evidence that it's deliberate was a single instance where Toby offhandedly corrected someone else when they called Kris "he" during a livestream together back during chapter fucking ONE, and even that didn't exactly come off as him being deathly serious. Despite the person making the subtitles for the video adding 27 asterisks for emphasis Toby himself puts almost no focus on it and says it entirely in passing.

That's it.