General Wrestling Discussion

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Samuel Fuller dijo:
Vince had Toni on his payroll for years and did fuck all with her. By the time he was exiled he had no creative ability worth half a sunbleached dog turd and was too controlling to let talent use their own ideas. Look at how he handle Killer Kross on the main roster for an example, because Vince went out of his way to make an example out of that fucker.
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I'm not saying he would have created the character of timeless Toni Storm I'm just saying he would have known what to do with that character rather than the box licking cringelord we have now.
Vince wasn't perfect and a lot of his ideas were terrible but what I'm saying he was capable of doing that Tony seems incapable of which really hurts him and his wrestlers is that Vince was able to reel them in when he needed to.
 
Lip Glossary dijo:
I'm not saying he would have created the character of timeless Toni Storm I'm just saying he would have known what to do with that character rather than the box licking cringelord we have now.
Vince wasn't perfect and a lot of his ideas were terrible but what I'm saying he was capable of doing that Tony seems incapable of which really hurts him and his wrestlers is that Vince was able to reel them in when he needed to.
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No, Vince was just an out-of-touch megalomaniac who forced talent into his shitty ideas and punished anyone whose gimmick he didn’t understand or who couldn’t get his fucktardation over.
 
Samuel Fuller dijo:
No, Vince was just an out-of-touch megalomaniac who forced talent into his shitty ideas and punished anyone whose gimmick he didn’t understand or who couldn’t get his fucktardation over.
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Your hatred for Vince is missing my point. I'm saying the one thing Vince knew how to do was pump the breaks on his wrestlers taking stupid liberties with their characters.
 
Lip Glossary dijo:
Your hatred for Vince is missing my point. I'm saying the one thing Vince knew how to do was pump the breaks on his wrestlers taking stupid liberties with their characters.
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And you’re overlooking that Vince quit letting wrestlers have any say at all in their characters for 99% of the roster back in the 2000s.
 
Samuel Fuller dijo:
And you’re overlooking that Vince quit letting wrestlers have any say at all in their characters for 99% of the roster back in the 2000s.
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Cody came in the same way he did when he was in AEW, I'm sure a similar arrangement could have been made for Toni.
AJ Styles, Asuka, Jericho, Van Damme, Mysterio and I'm sure there are many others that I'm forgetting. My point is if you were already over Vince didn't fuck with a good thing. Even late stage Vince who didn't change anything about Cody when he came back in 2023.
If he didn't have to make you and you were already a draw, he let you keep your character.
Also I think aew has proven that letting 99% of the wrestlers have say in their character ends up fucking retarded, hence Toni fucking up one of the greatest female characters that could have ever been by being a cringe fake lesbian who says naughty words because it's edgy and cool.

Ed: Vince's lifetime track record is about nine home runs for every strike, which is pretty good All things considered. Yes he had a bad run at the end there, but what I'm saying is if Tony didn't let Toni act like a fucking retard, she would probably be making 7 figures a year and holding a title right now in wwe, now that Vince is gone.
You can't market a pussy biting, tit obsessed fake lezzy though. Rhea and Liv are about as edgy as you're allowed to get.
 
Última edición:
Lip Glossary dijo:
Mysterio
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I said it before ITT, but the best thing Vince did when he brought in Rey was telling him to put the mask back on. Even ignoring the metric fuckton of merch sales they got out of selling replica masks, Rey having a literal baby face would have made him impossible to take seriously, especially given his Mega Push after Eddie's Death.
 
Lip Glossary dijo:
Cody came in the same way he did when he was in AEW, I'm sure a similar arrangement could have been made for Toni.
AJ Styles, Asuka, Jericho, Van Damme, Mysterio and I'm sure there are many others that I'm forgetting. My point is if you were already over Vince didn't fuck with a good thing. Even late stage Vince who didn't change anything about Cody when he came back in 2023.
If he didn't have to make you and you were already a draw, he let you keep your character.
Also I think aew has proven that letting 99% of the wrestlers have say in their character ends up fucking retarded, hence Toni fucking up one of the greatest female characters that could have ever been by being a cringe fake lesbian who says naughty words because it's edgy and cool.

Ed: Vince's lifetime track record is about nine home runs for every strike, which is pretty good All things considered. Yes he had a bad run at the end there, but what I'm saying is if Tony didn't let Toni act like a fucking retard, she would probably be making 7 figures a year and holding a title right now in wwe, now that Vince is gone.
You can't market a pussy biting, tit obsessed fake lezzy though. Rhea and Liv are about as edgy as you're allowed to get.
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Toni came from Stardom and was largely the same in NXT, then she got moved to the main roster and given “RETRO ‘80S ROCKER CHICK” as the totality of her character. Never got an iota of actual character or any development, Vince probably saw that she was below a D-cup and wrote her off.

And fuck no, Vince’s hit rate is the opposite of what you claim. He threw away more good ideas than he ever came up with due to being up his own ass and missing things that the crowd fucking loved so many times since he took total control that it is insane.

Pirate Paul Burchill is an example of him having something that was organically getting huge, but since he wasn’t aware of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, he canned the gimmick.

Vince’s idea of good creative was feeding the whole fucking roster to Roman TWICE because those goddamned fans weren’t getting it.

Cody was given the opportunity to bring in his AEW gimmick because Vince and Hunter were eager to give AEW a bloody nose, and Cody has stagnated in the same form that had fans in AEW literally standing and turning their backs for his entrances for his last few matches, and he is being similarly rejected in WWE now due to him being a retardant who has one character in mind and an ego equal to his father’s while being a medium talent, yet HGH has him stuck in the title rotation.
 
Leaf Wage Slave Jr dijo:
I said it before ITT, but the best thing Vince did when he brought in Rey was telling him to put the mask back on. Even ignoring the metric fuckton of merch sales they got out of selling replica masks, Rey having a literal baby face would have made him impossible to take seriously, especially given his Mega Push after Eddie's Death.
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People like to forget that out of the 40 years he was calling the shots, about 35 of them were amazing. I mean yes there were some dark times, but conveniently that was when Toni was establishing herself in AEW and reinventing herself. She absolutely deserved to be let go from WWE because let's face it she was a nobody in that company before she was timeless.
She was right in that sweet spot of not being around the "crazy Vince" era and "could have resigned for insane money" era. I'm convinced that WWE despite budget cuts would have paid her a million or two a year just to take her away from AEW... IF she would have been more accessible to the WWE audience which is less literal pussy munching and more children in the crowd.
She is the female wrestling version of the WCW invasion angle. It was a brilliant idea that had everything going for it and it could not have been executed more poorly. Basically the mistake that she made that is going to keep her in mediocrity forever is that she chose to be Costello when she should have been Abbott. Stop trying to go for a cheesy fucking laugh, because you being this insane deranged golden age actress WAS the joke. It didn't need extras, it worked as is.
If she would have played it right and been less trashy and more committed to the straight man role of her character, imagine the fucking pop at a PLE or even as the second entrance at the rumble when that music hits and everything goes black and white.
 
Lip Glossary dijo:
Ed: Vince's lifetime track record is about nine home runs for every strike,
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the only time EVER vince aligned with the current popular thing was hulkmania and the mtv connection and that was more of a nbc thing. he did jackshit with STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN after he won kotr and his choice was hhh until he fucked that up.the last time i watched new york was WM 30 and the daniel bryan phenomenon was again against what they wanted.
 
Vince’s idea of good creative was feeding the whole fucking roster to Roman TWICE because those goddamned fans weren’t getting it.
Are you seriously so disingenuous and desperate to win this argument that you're going to sit there and act like the bloodline, tribal chief story which culminated in three separate wrestlemanias of Cody returning, losing, then finishing the story wasn't fucking amazing?
Kermit the Frog dijo:
If Vince was handed Timeless Toni Storm, he would have loved how perverted she was, not changed a single thing about her character and most likely paired her up with Bobby Lashley.
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Lip Glossary dijo:
People like to forget that out of the 40 years he was calling the shots, about 35 of them were amazing. I mean yes there were some dark times, but conveniently that was when Toni was establishing herself in AEW and reinventing herself. She absolutely deserved to be let go from WWE because let's face it she was a nobody in that company before she was timeless.
She was right in that sweet spot of not being around the "crazy Vince" era and "could have resigned for insane money" era. I'm convinced that WWE despite budget cuts would have paid her a million or two a year just to take her away from AEW... IF she would have been more accessible to the WWE audience which is less literal pussy munching and more children in the crowd.
She is the female wrestling version of the WCW invasion angle. It was a brilliant idea that had everything going for it and it could not have been executed more poorly. Basically the mistake that she made that is going to keep her in mediocrity forever is that she chose to be Costello when she should have been Abbott. Stop trying to go for a cheesy fucking laugh, because you being this insane deranged golden age actress WAS the joke. It didn't need extras, it worked as is.
If she would have played it right and been less trashy and more committed to the straight man role of her character, imagine the fucking pop at a PLE or even as the second entrance at the rumble when that music hits and everything goes black and white.
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WWE was only good when Vince left the booking to actual bookers and let the wrestlers create their characters and develop their storylines with the bookers while he just ran the business.

Vince re-wrote history to tell marks that he was the main brain, but in the 80s he just rode Hogan’s jock and did business deals and left the rest to the ones who knew what they were doing. As the business grew, so did his cocaine and dianabol-fueled ego and he believed the press that said it was all his brilliance.

If Vince was as great as you have been duped into believing, why did he almost go under? Why did every single bushings venture he undertook other than the business his daddy gave him flop so hard that he was dodging bill collectors until daddy took pity and gave him the WWF for money that only existed on paper?

Why did both books for WWF crash to a halt when Vince took charge from top to bottom if he’s so fucking brilliant?

Vince hated wrestling and resented that it was what made him rich. Hence the WBF, which flopped harder than a Frenchman playing soccer, the XFL, which went under TWICE, IcoPro and more.

The Samoan Jobs Program, aka The Bloodline was fucking garbage, and having Cody come back to “finish the story” and jobbing him out at the first Mania was a retarded humiliation ritual that killed momentum and lost viewership.
 
Hollywood Hulk Hogan dijo:
Watching them when they have creative freedom I can see why he did that
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Every time some midcarder gets fired and goes on some rant about how they are now creatively free, I just think "No wonder someone else was writing their promos." I don't know why people call wrestlers theater kids when none of them can even do basic character work or act for shit.
 
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