Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

I was actually hoping From Now On wasn't used in Chapter 5, since it uses a lot of motifs from Chapter 4's areas and it wouldn't make sense anywhere else. The fact that the starting area in 5 has like two different reprises / covers NOT by Toby makes me think they weren't sure if having the entire start of the chapter be set in the dark marshy area was a good idea. Really wasn't a fan of the sudden "DUDE REMEMBER CHAPTER 1 WAS LIKE ALMOST A DECADE AGO??" shit.
 
Sadly, there's no Chapter 5 Noelle Expressions so I have to work with what's on the site.
undertale_text_box.gif
 
you probably have noticed by now the existence of elemental pair mechanic. some valuable items can provide either defense from an element, or be a weapon that does higher damage to an element. there are only two pairs in the game so far, as of 5 chapters out of 7. but did you know that in the code there are 10 FUCKING ELEMENTAL PAIRS AND 8 OF THEM ARE COMPLETELY UNUSED? 10. FUCKING. ELEMENTAL. PAIRS. Not even QUARTER of them is uncovered as of chapter 5... this mechanic was basically forgotten entirely in chapter 5 except for the pink haha funny cat boss, you don't even get any elemental defense armor or weapon in the dark world.

chapter 5 is fucking useless. you don't even get new proper equipment, just some bs netskiehat with high defense and that's all. if this trend continues deltarune is doomed.
 
What are the unused elemental pair types? Or does it not specify in the code?
they are specified by numbers, puppet/cat is 6, dark/star is 5 and elec/holy is 1. but you don't get to use elec/holy at all. this mechanic is also complex as some elements can protect against multiple elements at the same time, but oh well those are unused by now.

HAVEN'T YOU HEARD OF [elemental pairs]!?
WITH AN [Valuable item], YOU CAN DEFEND AGAINST [Puppet/Cat], OR [Thunder/Light], [Dark/Star]...
JUST WATCH OUT FOR THE [$#&*] THAT USE [Death/Scythe]!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!!
in total there are 9 elemental pairs, because element 0 is not using any effects. id 10 protects against all elements except 0
 
I was actually hoping From Now On wasn't used in Chapter 5, since it uses a lot of motifs from Chapter 4's areas and it wouldn't make sense anywhere else
You see, a competent storyteller, would actually actually design a song called "From Now On" set during a pivotal moment in the story from the ground up to actually serve as a future battle song.
 
Última edición:
I was actually hoping From Now On wasn't used in Chapter 5, since it uses a lot of motifs from Chapter 4's areas and it wouldn't make sense anywhere else. The fact that the starting area in 5 has like two different reprises / covers NOT by Toby makes me think they weren't sure if having the entire start of the chapter be set in the dark marshy area was a good idea. Really wasn't a fan of the sudden "DUDE REMEMBER CHAPTER 1 WAS LIKE ALMOST A DECADE AGO??" shit.
I think that's reasonable, and I agree that it feels unique (motif-wise) to chapter 4, but at the same time don't call it "from now on" if it's not meant to be a song that plays "from now on", and why go back to just a remixed version of Rude Buster anyway?
All a bit strange.
I think there could also be an arrangement of "from now on" thats more distinct from chapter's 4 motifs/sound anyway
 
The yellow and blue flowers being so horrible might be "evidence" of the Chapter being mostly/sorely made by the Troon Squad: To start, I hope this isn't the case, but to me, Yellow felt like a gross jab against Clover from Undertale Yellow.
Second, there's a lingering current of hostility towards the player through the entire player, usually felt in woke works like Small Saga, Metroid Prime 4, or the Lightyear movie.

Third, Toriel's gross actions of the previous chapter are watered down and that's that. No chance for Tori to have actual character flaws for once (same with Sans).

Fourth, Blue having special treatment and being a literal homo fairy abomination is troon pandering.

Fifth, the fact that Blue immediately turns hostile and sics its followers against you the second it feels something is off is very reminiscent of wokes' passive-aggressive/downright psycho behavior when they believe you're antagonizing them.

Sixth, the character art is downright awful for many characters and doesn't even fit the theme it was going for, such as the random kitsunes that do work with the suddenly Japan moment, but not so with the plant bit.

Seventh, the writing is definitely worse. Reminds me of how Sus goes in a random schizo rant at the end of Chapter 4. Oh, and all of the faggotry making a ritual humilliation of the player.

Might be my assumptions, but Chapter 5 does feel like Small Saga in which the writer/s is laughing at you, the player, not laughing WITH you.
 
What if Blue being kind of a shithead is intentional? Others have already pointed it out before, but most of the flowers seem to try to live up to whatever virtue was associated with their color but fail to some extent. Each of the flower's Check descriptions even mention their virtue.

Aqua: "A girl without a lick of patience. Enjoys trying new things."
Self-explanatory. She's a little gremlin and she doesn't even try to live up to her virtue.

Seth: "A know-it-all that generally only perseveres at studying."
Supposed to represent perseverance, but she's really quick to freak out or run away when anything goes wrong.

Orange: "A fighter. She tries to put on a brave face, but is rather sensitive."
Wants to be brave and tough, but tends to run to others crying for help and hides her true look behind a curtain at first because she's scared of being judged as looking weak.

Yellow: "A cowboy with his own peculiar brand of justice."
Talks about justice and enforcing it a lot, but he's too naive and easily swayed to really understand it or do it properly.

Blue: "A dancer who believes love to be integral to life."
This is where it gets unclear if the writers were intentionally following the pattern. His Check description is rather neutral and it's not using "integral" in exactly the same sense as the virtue of "integrity". But if we examine his behavior, it does kind of fit. He lectures others about having integrity at points, but he himself does things like ask for forgiveness instead of permission in taking Yellow's flowers and kind of brushes aside the trial thing that got other characters arrested once it turns on him, and he plays dumb and refuses to act in good faith was Green asks for her $5 back.

Green: "A chef whose kindness precedes. Seemingly no interest in speaking."
This is definitely one where they didn't bother to follow the pattern. Green is just taken as kind by everyone and there's nothing to really dispute or give nuance to that.
A lot of people here probably don't agree because they hate Blue too much, but I found Green to be the worst of the flowers. She's just a completely nothing character that everyone in-story seems to overly push as this lovable wholesome chungus, and she fits the least with what the others are doing. At least Blue is ironically funny for his retarded design, But I'll give that Blue's cafe scenes tend to be the worst since he often drones on too much.
 
Blue: "A dancer who believes love to be integral to life."
This is where it gets unclear if the writers were intentionally following the pattern. His Check description is rather neutral and it's not using "integral" in exactly the same sense as the virtue of "integrity". But if we examine his behavior, it does kind of fit. He lectures others about having integrity at points, but he himself does things like ask for forgiveness instead of permission in taking Yellow's flowers and kind of brushes aside the trial thing that got other characters arrested once it turns on him, and he plays dumb and refuses to act in good faith was Green asks for her $5 back.

Green: "A chef whose kindness precedes. Seemingly no interest in speaking."
This is definitely one where they didn't bother to follow the pattern. Green is just taken as kind by everyone and there's nothing to really dispute or give nuance to that.
A lot of people here probably don't agree because they hate Blue too much, but I found Green to be the worst of the flowers. She's just a completely nothing character that everyone in-story seems to overly push as this lovable wholesome chungus, and she fits the least with what the others are doing. At least Blue is ironically funny for his retarded design, But I'll give that Blue's cafe scenes tend to be the worst since he often drones on too much.
Green attacks in the Flowery fight and burned Yellow's shirt to make popcorn if you count those.
It's subjective I know, but Green is funny because she never once speaks and everyone else somehow knows she's chill like that.
Blue is the worst flower because he regurgitates what should already be clear (love is le good) in the most obnoxious tumblr-ultra-AIDS way possible by having a man jaw and wearing a tutu, then drags down Yellow with him. If he was a woman he would still be a bit unlikable to me with how pretentious he is.
 
Sorry for asking but what do you think might be the motive behind taking a jab at Undertale Yellow?
Well...

DR Yellow is just a flanderized ver. of Clover.

They took the suicide ending and made that Yellow's sole personality trait.
This.

UTYellow was an excellent fangame, with some flaws such as excessively long dialogue, a typical noob mistake (funny how that worked with Chapter 5). I haven't finished it yet, but Clover is clearly a boy despite the use of they/them/xir for him (plus I believe he's referred as "king" at some point, aka a male title), the game has multiple endings including a non-canon one where he rescues his souls, and a canon one where his soul join the others.
IIRC he also meets Integrity here, or at least his killer, but I'm not sure of the details.
The point is that there was some drama with that game's music and Toby's lack of an answer, but I don't recall what exactly happened here. Seeing how spiteful and envious leftards can be, I'm convinced they co-opted Yellow by making him a literal retard. Or at least a blatant OC freak that makes ElNino+Elnina look normal (and these two were already overdesigned compared to the regular NPCs!).

What if Blue being kind of a shithead is intentional? Others have already pointed it out before, but most of the flowers seem to try to live up to whatever virtue was associated with their color but fail to some extent. Each of the flower's Check descriptions even mention their virtue.
In a normal world I would buy that. Sadly, in our fallen world, I'm sure troons took its behaviour as something truly virtuous, since a crossdresser nig has many points in the repression olympics, plus the game doesn't seem to mind his scummy behaviour at all.

Green: "A chef whose kindness precedes. Seemingly no interest in speaking."
This is definitely one where they didn't bother to follow the pattern. Green is just taken as kind by everyone and there's nothing to really dispute or give nuance to that.
Yeah, that one was a literal non-entity. Worse, the author of the Megaman Sprite comics may be behind this, which is an extra waste of potential.
 
Atrás
Top Abajo