Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

This is mindless toddler game journalist difficulty in a video game aimed at teens. Mario RPGS for children provide more pushback and thinking than this, but I guess people play Deltarune for comfort food and xitter screenshots.

Bullets barely deal damage with 3 hour invincibility frames and you have access to basically infinite healing and revives. There's basically 0 strategy in the battle system as all party members have been watered down to serve the same purpose, and acting boils down to doing a different minigame for dealing wholesome damage instead of a minigame for bad damage. All difficulty is locked behind secret bosses.

My pokemon suddenly started attacking on their own without my input, it was such an awesome character moment that brilliantly displayed their growth throughout our journey.
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I never said this.
I legit agree, the stuff you could get hit by already did barely any damage so having the platforming get overridden by the game felt like it was taking food away before I even started to eat. There was no challenge or fun this chapter, just quirky dialogue with characters that you're not supposed to give a fuck about long term.
 
I understood the characterization reason for it, but I did feel a twinge of disappointment in that last big platformer area when Ralsei and Susie decided to act independently.

Also I call bullshit on Deltarune not being challenging at all. I’ve played quite a lot of games throughout my life and I think the Roaring Knight battle is the most difficult thing I’ve pulled off to date. I had a tough time with Mew Mew also but if I had to guess, I think what splits people’s experience there is how well or not they can read the small bombs grid attack. I was in the “struggles to read” camp.

I will say that there is one thing I genuinely, honest-to-goodness loved in this chapter.
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nyon
 
I don't see how you can complain the damage is too low outside maybe the platforming sections. I actually think the damage dealt by enemies in battle has been on an upswing in recent chapters. It feels like things can quickly take off half a character's health and stacking Defense doesn't do much. It also feels like party-wide damage is thrown around a lot more now, which makes the rarity of party-wide heals more noticeable. I'm not saying it's super hard now, I still didn't die during Chapter 5 except a couple times against Pink, but the healing economy feels weird now since Ralsei's heal can't keep up with the increasing HP, and the auto-heal when downed takes too long, so you need to stock up on whatever the best healing item this chapter is (Green Tea) just spam it on the party as you get low (since likely everyone's hurt at once).

Actually, I've been thinking about something. I feel like some of the gameplay was actually at its best designed in the first two chapters, because Susie and Ralsei's magic had more use, so there was more interesting choices during fights like Jevil when it comes to attacking vs. pacifism and how you want to spent turns and TP. But not only has Ralsei's heal gotten less effective with each chapter as touched on above, as the game has gone on the more often fights revolve around needing to use special actions with high TP costs to win (or win with pacifism), which means actually using Susie or Ralsei's magic now just feels impractical all the time because you're massively delaying victory not using that TP on the action that wins the fight. You're essentially just using ACTs or healing with items now, and very rarely anything else.
 
pretty sure its impossible to do it with manual acts. you would need to send ralsei to hang himself before the anchor even appears on screen while youre in midair. when they start doing things without your input they also do it much faster
I've seen videos of people doing it (and presumably non-cheated), so I don't think so.
 
I don't think I've even used pacify past chapter 1. It's just never come up.
What was the point of choosing now to give Susie Scythemare? Did Chapter 5 have any tired enemies? I didn’t even consider using it once.
I actually did use Pacify a couple times on my (Aborted) Weird Route file where I sometimes use violence because I smacked the Terakota enemies around since it would be faster than mercy-ing them, but it turned out they got into Tired range before I could kill them so I just used Pacify to end the fight. That's a pretty specific scenario though. The introduction of Scythemare is quite puzzling, like you don't generally have multiple Tired enemies at once, and especially not in this chapter, and they even offer you armor that halves its TP cost. The only thing that comes to mind is that this is another case of Susie getting an ability someone else has so she can do everything.

Thinking about, they have been neglecting the Tired status. There was a handful of enemies in the early chapters that had ACTs that made them Tired rather than raising the Mercy gauge, and it could be more efficient to do that and have Ralsei Pacify them than it was to Mercy them. And Chapter 4 had a couple enemies that played with Tired mechanics where it could come up (Balthizard and Mizzle). But I don't think Chapter 5 had any enemies at all that got Tired except by getting them to low HP.

Actually, I'm double-checking now, and technically Floradinn does, but I think you only have like, one set of Floradinn you fight that isn't a scripted event? And Leaflings have a Tired-based command, but there's also one on set of those and it feels more efficient to take them out by charging 64% TP and then using the TurboSpin command, with Susie and Ralsei sparing on the exact same turn.
 
pretty sure its impossible to do it with manual acts. you would need to send ralsei to hang himself before the anchor even appears on screen while youre in midair. when they start doing things without your input they also do it much faster
I got it after like 7 tries but I had to reload my save every 2 attempts. You need precise timing but it's not rocket science by any means.
 
What was the point of choosing now to give Susie Scythemare? Did Chapter 5 have any tired enemies? I didn’t even consider using it once.
Every character has to be able to do everything such that you're barely debilitated if one happens to go down, because we're balancing this around tumblroids who can't handle bad things happening to their wholesome 100 blorbos. These two things are true unless it's the blue cuck boy, because fuck him in particular.
 
Any bets on XSlash never appearing again after Chapter 2?
Yep, likely not going to happen. Speaking of which, it's impressive that Spamton is still one of the most interesting characters come Chapter 5, despite not being present at all there. Being chased by FRIENDs and figuring out multiple ways to divert them is more appealing to me than waddling around in some toothless Japanese place where every other character is some variety of LGBTV+.
 
I'm pretty sure the main reason people ITT are shitting on chapter 5 is because they got cucked out of their favorite ship, otherwise they'd be eating it up like they did with ch 3 and 4.
Inclined to agree because they didn't react this way to other bad moments in previous chapters.
"Undertale was also backloaded"
Toby just plans his game's acts badly. Back then he tried to cram a lot in 4 hours, now he has more time but keeps coming up with things on the fly (Which makes it impossible to make the game progress organically).
Not every game has to be ballbustingly difficult. It's a unique blend of mechanics that make for a greater sum of its parts. But this argument is pointless, because of the kind of person you are. So whatever. The game is gay and shit and lame and we should all stop talking about it and go back to posting wojaks ad infinitum.
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<The game is gay and shit and lame and we should all stop talking about it and go back to posting wojaks ad infinitum.

It's not good enough to justify super easy combat. And how are the mechanics "unique" in Deltarune? It's all lifted from better, older RPG's.
>TFW when TF2 players try lecturing people about pozzed games
Our game wasn't designed pozzed, doebeit.
 
I feel like some of the gameplay was actually at its best designed in the first two chapters
I think a big reason why the core gameplay keeps getting more watered down is because you can start the game from any chapter without a save. It's designed so that streamers and tourists can just buy the game and get straight to the new seasonal drop, without actually playing the rest of the game or building up their party and inventory.
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>Thanks for buying Deltarune, would you like to play the game or skip to chapter 5?
Chapters are designed to not require any previous gameplay knowledge or progression.
 
you would need to send ralsei to hang himself
>sending ralsei to hang himself
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It's not good enough to justify super easy combat. And how are the mechanics "unique" in Deltarune? It's all lifted from better, older RPG's.
I'd like to add to this: One of the points of difficulty within games is to force the player to engage with the mechanics that the author placed there as part of the vision for the game. If you have every character able to do everything at once, you lose a great amount of strategy within the game. The same goes if you have the difficulty be as trivial as most of Deltarune. I'd say that this detracts from the experience.

There's also a distinct lack of opportunity cost within the game that showed some promise in Chapter 1, with it just not being fully fleshed out. It's a shame.
 
Everyone's complaining about Chapter 5's Dark World being Japanese-themed, but I saw nobody suggest a better and more fitting theme for it.
Germanic.
And I don't mean that just as a "HYPERBOREA I'M SO ORIGINAL AND FUNNY." No, I mean it as in his theme song is a German word (Bergentrückung).
There may be other German cultural stuff too but I'm not sure

Anywho, I think it's a false pretense. You don't need to set it based on a specific culture for no reason, it could just be generally royal and "plant like" or whatever.

If they wanted it to be Japanese, it should have had a stronger basis.
 
Well, what I meant by that, is since Asgore's shop specialises in selling flowers and plants, the theme of the Dark World should utilise it somehow, while also bringing a fantasy or sci-fi element. While Chapter 4's was essentially a giant cathedral or sanctuary, a giant greenhouse or flower store would likely be too plain.

When I think of gardens and plants, I think of European castles and palaces that had large decorated gardens in front of them. That could work, but the problem is, we already had a European-style castle and medieval fantasy in the first chapter. So I guess the next option would be to pick gardens and castles from another culture or continent, and since Toby is a weeb and the game has a large audience in Japan, Asian stuff is an easy pick. (As long as we ignore the fact that Ch5 straight up re-uses and re-mixes Ch1 assets in the first part anyway).

The only other thing I could think of when it comes to the subject of plants was some kind of enormous jungle, or just a big forest, maybe even a macro-scale one where flowers are bigger than humans. The issue with that is since Asgore is meant to be a king of that realm, the realm has to look like a domain under his control, so a wild forest or jungle doesn't quite fit, whereas a decorated garden where the plants are cut to form ornate shapes definitely does.

Or, maybe just don't fixate on the flowers and plants at all, and focus on the fact that Asgore is lonely and kinda miserable while living there, so the entire shack has a sad aura around it. Maybe an abandoned brutalist structure with vines all over the place could work? I'm all ears to your ideas.
 
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