Undertale / Deltarune / Toby Fox Discussion

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

the real jealously was Kris playing the part of Peter Parker while Noelle played the part of paul.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

monster biology is different from humans and they explicitly do not have blood.

This isn't actually true. Nowhere in either Undertale or Deltarune does is ever actually say outright "monsters don't have blood." Check through Undertale's script, you won't find it. All they say is that "monsters are mostly made of magic, while humans are mostly made of water" and that monsters turn to dust when they die (a play on enemy death animations in JRPGs).

Them being made of magic is why their bodies dissolve into dust on death because the magic holding their cells together fades. There's not actually anything to seriously suggest their bodies don't work in normal biological ways while their still alive though. They still eat food, use the toilet, need body warmth (going off Kris warming up comatose Birdley), can get sick, can blush (implying blood rushing to their face).

The only real evidence they don't have blood is that line from the baby bunny in Deltarune Chapter 1 where he asks Kris if it "hurts to be full of blood". This the one thing possibly proving monsters don't bleed, and it's hard to know if we're supposed to take it that seriously because it's from a dumb little kid who easily gets scared of everything.

 

[niggarobux]

Paranoïd troon thinks friend is after xer in real life, afraid for xeir safety after seeing pink&yellow pattern everywhere
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First real IMAGE_FRIEND irl feat (gaster upscale??? friend transphobic???)

I have personal connections to a few FRIENDs, so I can confidently confirm that they're after xhe/xer. !

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

The only real evidence they don't have blood is that line from the baby bunny in Deltarune Chapter 1 where he asks Kris if it "hurts to be full of blood". This the one thing possibly proving monsters don't bleed, and it's hard to know if we're supposed to take it that seriously because it's from a dumb little kid who easily gets scared of everything.

How about fuckin Undyne the Undying where she takes a fatal slash that starts making her body collapse into two pieces before determinationmaxxing? Without bleeding?
Monsters don't fucking bleed.

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

This isn't actually true. Nowhere in either Undertale or Deltarune does is ever actually say outright "monsters don't have blood." Check through Undertale's script, you won't find it. All they say is that "monsters are mostly made of magic, while humans are mostly made of water" and that monsters turn to dust when they die (a play on enemy death animations in JRPGs).

Them being made of magic is why their bodies dissolve into dust on death because the magic holding their cells together fades. There's not actually anything to seriously suggest their bodies don't work in normal biological ways while their still alive though. They still eat food, use the toilet, need body warmth (going off Kris warming up comatose Birdley), can get sick, can blush (implying blood rushing to their face).

The only real evidence they don't have blood is that line from the baby bunny in Deltarune Chapter 1 where he asks Kris if it "hurts to be full of blood". This the one thing possibly proving monsters don't bleed, and it's hard to know if we're supposed to take it that seriously because it's from a dumb little kid who easily gets scared of everything.

Right but the very heavy implication is that they don't have blood. The fact that only two character ever bleed is suspect, and if it's not properly addressed it is bad writing

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

How about fuckin Undyne the Undying where she takes a fatal slash that starts making her body collapse into two pieces before determinationmaxxing? Without bleeding?
Monsters don't fucking bleed.

Something to note is that the only two monsters we've seen to bleed, Sans and Susie, have two droplets in their name in WingDings

SUSIE - 🕆☜
SANS - ✌☠
DESS - ☜

Coincidentally, these three are the most likely canditates to be Gasterglowies

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

Something to note is that the only two monsters we've seen to bleed, Sans and Susie, have two droplets in their name in WingDings

SUSIE - 🕆☜
SANS - ✌☠
DESS - ☜

Coincidentally, these three are the most likely canditates to be Gasterglowies

are there any other monsters with droplets in their names , and how many droplets

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

are there any other monsters with droplets in their names , and how many droplets

S = droplet, simple as that

Now while there are characters with an S in their names, as I said these are the only ones to have two of them in the same name

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

S = droplet, simple as that

Now while there are characters with an S in their names, as I said these are the only ones to have two of them in the same name

So Sorry
Dogaressa

Yeah I reckon that falls under the realm of schizotheory

 

[Lizard Machine Bugs]

1) Friend isn't a single entity. There are multiple Friends. (I'm personally theorizing that it's 1 entity that can split into multiple entities, hence why it looks to be made up of cats).
2)It hunts for Protein. (most likely for the Eggs and Eggman)
3)They are basically attack dogs/cats for someone (Likely Gaster from what we know about Spamton)
4)It's supposedly not very smart, but chases its targets endless until they get bored.
5)They bite very hard (Kris was bitten on the hand by the Friend in chapter 5. Maybe this is how Kris will lose his hand)
6)People (meaning spamton) have changed their appearance to hide from them.

Considering that ERAM/the Shadow Mantle boss is the one who we seem use them as attack cats in Chapter 3, I'd say that it's probably Spamton's benefactor. Also I'd argue Spamton isn't really connected with Gaster. Sure he talked to his benefactor on the phone and Gaster has some connection to them, but when we have his benefactor described to us during is fight as:
>It pulls the strings and makes them ring.
And the PuppetScarf, his strings are described as guitar strings. Guitars which are a symbol exclusively used for Dess, not to mention this is the first mention of guitars in the game, it makes me think that ERAM has some connection to Dess.
Noelle also talks about Spamton being nostalgic, which is odd.

 

[invisibult plus+]

Spamton this Spamton that, blah blah blah. It's been 5 years, and I'm still trying to figure out why I need to care about this guy outside of the Chapter he shows up in.

Everything about him has been pure speculation since his first appearance. At this point my brain just outright rejects anything new about him. I need that memory in my brain for actually important things.

People still care because Chapter 2 was the last time the game showed any promise.

-snip-

Considering what Green is, plus the Blue/Yellow shit, and whatever Ralsei in a dress was supposed to be, that's already happening. I'm not going to talk about the deflowering shit again, I'm trying to say it's already coloring the game. He's catered to them too much. It just raises the bigger question of why he's doing this "I'm not touching you" shit for game that's ~70% over. Discussion is one thing, but if your audience is still debating how monsters actually work in a game that's almost 8 years old, then that is a serious problem. It's not like Undertale whereby, "Here's your species, here are these magical creatures trapped underground. The End." It's believable that monsters didn't bleed in UT because there's an implicit understanding that monsters didn't work the way humans do. Sans Undertale leaked red. He drank ketchup. Whatever. Then what's this?



I doubt monsters channel juice up their faces. Susie apparently can clean up bloodstains and recognize when Kris bled, so whether she's half human, or Gaster gave her and Sans the ability to bleed somehow, is another issue. We shouldn't be asking basic questions about this world for a story that's 70%~ over. We shouldn't get characters who are involved in the story vagueposting in real time. Make Asgore actually talk. His whole life got upended by that shit. Likewise, we shouldn't be asking why characters, when the story impacts them, just shift once a chapter ends and another begins. The prophecy is upending Susie's life regardless of her involvement in it, or with Gaster, so at least follow up on her reaction to that prophecy. Setups are supposed to have payoffs. If the payoffs aren't there then the setups are pointless.

I can only speculate that he's trying to outplay his audience by subverting expectations for the quintillionth time, like not doing any schizos after Spamton to break the pattern (and spitting on theories via the Mike fight). I can only speculate that he dreamed about the ending and never thought about how to get to that ending. I can only say these things because, from here, he's outsmarting himself trying to outsmart the audience. He has two (2) chapters to close up all these loose ends and I seriously doubt he can. You can only hide behind theory and themes for so long, especially when you go out of your way to sacrifice them for essentially nothing.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

People still care because Chapter 2 was the last time the game showed any promise.

Well I don't know about that, I think 4 hit a decent tone and ramped up the stakes well enough.

 

[invisibult plus+]

Well I don't know about that, I think 4 hit a decent tone and ramped up the stakes well enough.

We’ll have to agree to disagree there.

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

So Sorry
Dogaressa

Yeah I reckon that falls under the realm of schizotheory

I mean, I kinda knew that trying to read the symbolism in windings was a bit faulty, but I just saw an image that explained it and wanted to get it out here

But to be fair, that kinda fits neatly in the context of Susie and Sans, especially considering that Susie was spelled as "Suzy", but now as "Susie", but could be completly unrelated

Still an interesting coincidence even if untinentional

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

We shouldn't be asking basic questions about this world for a story that's 70%~ over.

To be fair, to steelman it, these mysteries could have a perfectly good reason for not being answered yet, and the payoff could be satisfying
however even if thats the case, Deltarune has absolutely failed in some regards. Noelle x Susie could be retroactively improved, but the flowers sucked. Asgore's conclusion in chapter 5 sucked. Ralsei's character in chapter 5 sucked. Even if Toby does a big brain "I was baiting the retarded goycattle into liking Suselle and I also made Chapter 5 disappointing on purpose as a part of a big narrative recontextualisation that will happen later", those problems still exist.
So, if someone is unwilling to give affordances to Toby I don't particularly blame them.

 

[Newcomer 42]

Clearly Toby will reveal his final trick: Chapter 8, the End for all Ends, ready by 2029! Nintendo won't tolerate such delays though. Unless he does a Mass Erect 3 and says it's an epilogue DLC for the base game.

 

[invisibult plus+]

To be fair, to steelman it, these mysteries could have a perfectly good reason for not being answered yet, and the payoff could be satisfying
however even if thats the case, Deltarune has absolutely failed in some regards. Noelle x Susie could be retroactively improved, but the flowers sucked. Asgore's conclusion in chapter 5 sucked. Ralsei's character in chapter 5 sucked. Even if Toby does a big brain "I was baiting the retarded goycattle into liking Suselle and I also made Chapter 5 disappointing on purpose as a part of a big narrative recontextualisation that will happen later", those problems still exist.
So, if someone is unwilling to give affordances to Toby I don't particularly blame them.

Even if there is a reason there comes a point where you shouldn't sabotage your work for it.

 

[You Can't Un'Ape The Doe]

Even if there is a reason there comes a point where you shouldn't sabotage your work for it.

Nah I mean if it actually serves the story best is what matters the most. It would be pretty cool if Toby was able to trick most of the fanbase, though thats secondary to a good narrative.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

I just wish I knew exactly how the development for this worked, if only to see how much the Troon Brigade actually influences.

I have no idea how much of the shit I dislike is actually Toby or his Captain Planet team of spastic retards he has working for him.

 

[smartgenius55583433157]

I just wish I knew exactly how the development for this worked, if only to see how much the Troon Brigade actually influences.

I have no idea how much of the shit I dislike is actually Toby or his Captain Planet team of spastic retards he has working for him.

Real talk: why the fuck would you let troons in on directly influencing your "aristic vision" in your own Magnum Opus if it's so imperative?

Stop letting them adding dumb shit into your game if it was your dream to make it in the first place