The Shin Megami Tensei/Persona Thread

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Tanner Glass dijo:
A lot of stuff in P5 felt like "we had this in P3/P4 so we need it here" down to the themes, plot points, and villains but P5 felt like it just ran out of gas in way that P4 did not. Maybe it was directionless writing or maybe it was my 3rd or 4th time through the same exact structure from P3 but it just felt boring and aimless.
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P5 ran out of gas hard when the flashbacks ended - I didn't notice it much until I finished the game, but the entire setup of Joker being mischaracterized as a delinquent could have been removed entirely and nothing would need to be rewritten. Returning to the faceoff with Sae keeps you invested in his situation, but it ultimately it's all about the Phantom Thieves and not about Joker as a falsely accused normal guy.

It never drops Joker's situation entirely, but the game keeps his situation on the back burner until it reveals another character as a secret love child of the game's main villain who also happens to be Joker's accuser. It's hard to keep caring when the writers have checked out that completely.

I assume P6 will follow the calendar template so I hope it's more like P3 than 4 and 5 - it's been twenty years now, but I remember P3 being less episodic than P4 and 5's mind palace structure, with fewer distractions from its central story. The darker tailer has me cautiously optimistic, and even if it's Persona 3 episode 4 I'm kind of fine returning to nu-Persona every 10 years or so.
 
lichen dijo:
P5 ran out of gas hard when the flashbacks ended - I didn't notice it much until I finished the game, but the entire setup of Joker being mischaracterized as a delinquent could have been removed entirely and nothing would need to be rewritten. Returning to the faceoff with Sae keeps you invested in his situation, but it ultimately it's all about the Phantom Thieves and not about Joker as a falsely accused normal guy.

It never drops Joker's situation entirely, but the game keeps his situation on the back burner until it reveals another character as a secret love child of the game's main villain who also happens to be Joker's accuser. It's hard to keep caring when the writers have checked out that completely.

I assume P6 will follow the calendar template so I hope it's more like P3 than 4 and 5 - it's been twenty years now, but I remember P3 being less episodic than P4 and 5's mind palace structure, with fewer distractions from its central story. The darker tailer has me cautiously optimistic, and even if it's Persona 3 episode 4 I'm kind of fine returning to nu-Persona every 10 years or so.
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Persona 5 ran out of gas when they cucked the fuck out of the immature rebellion message because god forbid the Japanese public will blame the creators in wrongthink. And instead they just redid 4's "it's actually society at fault so we should just strive to be better rather than do anything ourselves".

If the game had any balls it would have ended with Joker bombing the National Diet Building and the NHK.
 
Verdun_Salient dijo:
What would Nulls persona be and whqt abilities would it get
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I'd prefer Null as a main character who summons lolcows like personas. Sonichu would be the lightning attack and DSP could be a pig-roach who casts sleep spells by begging at enemies. Quartering could be that demon that sits on a toilet and shits to casts magic. What other Lolcownas could there be?
 
By gods I wish Persona went back the route of SMT; pure devilry and dystopia. Fuck high schoolers, man.
Thousandislandstare dijo:
You guys think 6 is gonna be any good? how the fuck are they supposed to fallow up the last one? one of the best selling and most acclaimed JRPGS of all time. Seems like a herculean task to me.
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Look up any video detailing how much content was cut, how many promises were broken and how many times P5 was delayed. It's a miracle it even came out. It's a really odd development: Games created under comfortable circumstances these days are unpolished and shit while games 15 years ago were made under financial torture and they'd still have a lot of easter eggs and minute details you'd think their last priority.
Cloaca Rimjob dijo:
started a game of persona 3 to see what the fuss is about, its a bit crap and boring lol.
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I beat three persona games before I gave SMT3 a try and within an hour I was hooked. Deeper, grander story without half as much dialogue. Pure gameplay where even de/buffs stacking makes auto-attack combat exciting. Persona, you can't de/buff or heal til the 20th hour, sometimes literally.
 
lichen dijo:
the entire setup of Joker being mischaracterized as a delinquent could have been removed entirely
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It's only present at the start of the game, too. Everyone that meets you warms up to you immediately, outside of Sojiro who takes a few days to treat you like a son or makoto who treats everyone like a delinquent until she becomes a party member. There must have been some rewrites along the way.
Cloaca Rimjob dijo:
felt like a boring visual novel before actually getting into any actual rpg stuff
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Persona games are somewhat notorious for taking five or six hours to actually get to the meat of the game. But yes, it's basically half-VN half-RPG
 
lichen dijo:
P5 ran out of gas hard when the flashbacks ended - I didn't notice it much until I finished the game, but the entire setup of Joker being mischaracterized as a delinquent could have been removed entirely and nothing would need to be rewritten. Returning to the faceoff with Sae keeps you invested in his situation, but it ultimately it's all about the Phantom Thieves and not about Joker as a falsely accused normal guy.
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It's also just pointless because the game tries (in the back half) to humanize the villains but they are unredeemable rapists, extortionists, and murderers.

It sinks Shido and Akechi as having any kind of thought-based morality and makes them blatantly uninteresting characters, even when they were clearly trying to have a higher minded dynamic aka Sherlock Holmes / James Moriarty or Arsene Lupin / Kogoro Akechi (the second being the most obvious). You don't have your criminal mastermind(s) doing low-level thug stuff and they literally do that in the opening minutes of the game.

They also don't "build" to anything either - there's no rhyme or reason for the progression (as opposed to P3 or P4) or grand overarching scheme, which is why the metaverse is populated with low-level side quest enemies - which gives a few more boss fights but from a narrative sense is just "ok?". Some people are tied to the "conspiracy" but the "conspiracy" is just a nebulous level of control by a God, which is never explored or thought about. Is it just some people? Is it everyone? Are there degrees?

Palaces too - the horny/rapey teacher gets one but the un-named quest parents that engage in literal slavery don't? Only one CEO gets one? It's just kind of a hodge-podge of ideas thrown together. It's why Haru's dad twist doesn't land either - they've already killed so many people (** j/k the people in those train crashes all survived somehow!) and have been lining up bodies for years (including Futaba's mom) so one more doesn't really seem out of line and it's weird they just don't kill more people anyhow (including Joker).
 
Tanner Glass dijo:
the game tries (in the back half) to humanize the villains but they are unredeemable rapists, extortionists, and murderers.
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really? i know it's been a decade since i played, but it always seemed to me it was more like "how an innocent desire can become corrupted by power" more than "pwease feel bad for them they're human too"
Tanner Glass dijo:
the horny/rapey teacher gets one but the un-named quest parents that engage in literal slavery don't? Only one CEO gets one?
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yeah, because it's personal to your party members. if you stand back and look at it, yes it is weird that palaces are only granted to these specific characters and not the elites, but i think the whole keyword system was a way of saying "here's why there aren't palaces everywhere," because you have to seek them out, and you'd only know how to find them if you knew what to look for and where. at least, that's what i remember it as. if anything, mementos ruins this line of thinking because every fucking small fry problem in terms of plot, not actual severity gets thrown into the same meat grinder. cheating boyfriend? schizophrenic hitman? they're both sorted into mementos.
 
Última edición:
I already beat golden when it was free on Xbox live so the only thing I'm interested in are the new and remastered songs.
 
Cryogonal2 dijo:
really? i know it's been a decade since i played, but it always seemed to me it was more like "how an innocent desire can become corrupted by power" more than "pwease feel bad for them they're human too"
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In the back half of the game you find some of the shadows brainwashed and in prison, deprived of free will. It's supposed to be the usual SMT exploration of Free Will (but Chaos) or Forced Order (but Peace) but you know with freedom that Kamoshida was an unrepentant asshole who was hobbling/raping students. The implication is the godly angel is imposting his will on the world, but how much? To what extent? Is he making these people worse? Is it brainwashing?

They also portray Akechi as a tragic figure instead of a complete psychopath.
 
LecherousGranolaBar dijo:
If they cast a fucking trans woman to play Naoto, the discourse surrounding her is gonna be so fucking obnoxious. I'm not ready to fight this fight again.
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Kanji gonna be worse because his isn't even about gayness. Iirc its more him liking traditionally fem things so his dungeon is a bathhouse to represent the macho thing.

Like it might be memoryholed but I distinctly recall Troy Baker saying he didn't see him as gay at all....

But of course Kanji and Naoto are perhaps the most controversial characters in the entire franchise especially in terms of how they are viewed.
 
Scarlett Johansson dijo:
Kanji gonna be worse because his isn't even about gayness. Iirc its more him liking traditionally fem things so his dungeon is a bathhouse to represent the macho thing.

Like it might be memoryholed but I distinctly recall Troy Baker saying he didn't see him as gay at all....
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Maybe this is not canon because it was only portrayed in the first anime, but part of Kanji's internal conflict with his masculinity is because he thought liking Naoto, pretty things and wearing speedos made him gay and gay men are creepy.

The bathhouse is a disturbing dungeon considering the implications of what happens in those places. Also, the bodybuilders who follow shadow Kanji grope Yu and Yosuke.
 
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