Culture US to pull jets, destroyers and submarines from NATO - 100 years later, you're on your damn own


BRUSSELS — Washington told allies it will gradually scale down the number of strategic bombers, fighter jets, drones, submarines and warships dedicated to NATO as it continues pressing Europe to do more for its own defense.

The announcement was made in a closed-door meeting of NATO policy directors on Friday by Pentagon adviser Alexander Velez-Green, according to two alliance diplomats who were granted anonymity to speak freely.

The reductions reflect a long-running effort by U.S. President Donald Trump to pare back America’s role in an alliance he has repeatedly criticized as useless to Washington. It also underscores the administration’s military pivot toward other regions, like the Indo-Pacific.
Trump has dismayed European allies by announcing he would pull 5,000 troops out of Germany, which later turned out to include 4,000 soldiers from Poland — before U-turning and saying he would deploy an additional 5,000 troops to Poland.

The exact nature of the cutbacks is not yet finalized, the diplomats said, and the U.S. did not attach any timelines to the reductions. Washington also reassured allies there would be no changes to its nuclear deterrence, they added.

The meeting did “not [give] exhaustive details … but it is much clearer now,” said a third NATO diplomat, also granted anonymity to speak freely. “It will depend on the capacity of the others to come in with alternatives … some are not touched, others go completely, others can go to one-half or one-third.”

“The timeline is more complicated because it is linked with the credibility of deterrence and defense,” they said. “That said, everything is not yet definitely decided, even in the U.S.”

European allies and the U.S. are likely to discuss the issue further at NATO’s Force Generation conference next month, the two diplomats said. That is a meeting where national military planners define the capabilities they can offer the alliance, and under what conditions.

Under NATO's Force Model system, alliance members periodically identify the soldiers and equipment they will commit to NATO operations — making them available to the alliance’s top commander in the event of a war. The specifics are a closely-guarded secret, but Washington now wants to scale back those commitments.
Jennifer Kavanagh, director of military analysis at the Washington-based Defense Priorities think tank, said the reductions would create gaps that would be particularly difficult to fill rapidly for some types of military assets, including submarines and strategic bombers.

But European allies should not seek to replace them like-for-like, she argued. “The important thing with these U.S. withdrawals is not that Europe matches what is lost but [that] Europe figures out what it really needs to defend itself and procure those capabilities,” Kavanagh said. “Across the board Europe can do this within five years.”

U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio made clear to fellow NATO foreign ministers on Friday that further American troop and weapons drawdowns were on their way — while reassuring them that this would be done in a coordinated fashion.

“It’s well understood in the alliance that the United States troop presence in Europe is going to be adjusted — that work was already ongoing, and it’s been done in coordination with our allies,” Rubio told reporters in the Swedish city of Helsingborg. “I’m not saying they’re going to be thrilled about it, but they certainly are aware.”

NATO spokesperson Allison Hart told POLITICO that "there has been an over-reliance on US forces and capabilities" by the alliance, adding: "But as Europe and Canada are investing more in defence and developing more capabilities, the balance of responsibility can shift."

"This change strengthens NATO’s defence plans by reducing over-dependence on one (LOL MORE LIKE YOUR ONLY) ally and is a reflection of a broader shift happening within the alliance," she said.
 
Did they really think it was contracted that America pays for everything, forever, for all time?
If there's a stable point in leftist politics, it's the idea of getting what you want in perpetuity and the person giving it to you shutting the fuck up. There really is no give-and-take anymore, everyone wants to be a parasite and bleed others dry, and crying foul when the host is out of blood.
 
Again for the ten millionth time NATO is a defensive alliance no member is under any obligation to support another members offensive millitary operations. Trump being butt hurt because the German Chancellor called his retard war retarded won't change that.
If there's a stable point in leftist politics, it's the idea of getting what you want in perpetuity and the person giving it to you shutting the fuck up. There really is no give-and-take anymore, everyone wants to be a parasite and bleed others dry, and crying foul when the host is out of blood.
And what is the stable point of rightist politics we all live inside a Norman Rockwell painting for all eternity? Total jeet genocide? Total capitalist domination of every aspect of human existence? That one cartoon that looks out on the desert wasteland with the caption "But for a moment we created a lot of shareholder value"? I'm really curious
 
Última edición:
If there's a stable point in leftist politics, it's the idea of getting what you want in perpetuity and the person giving it to you shutting the fuck up. There really is no give-and-take anymore, everyone wants to be a parasite and bleed others dry, and crying foul when the host is out of blood.
Yep. To a leftist? There are distinct levels of society, and once you reach them? The game of reality "autosaves" and you cannot backtrack. Once you reach a certain social dynamic? Where money and influence are flowing from group "A" to "B"? That's it, have the Government hit "F5" ... this state can now be quickloaded again and again and again..... everything else?

Complaints of unfairness? Overtaxation? Inflation? All are undone every time you just hit that quickload by saying "diversity is our strength!"


I'm just pointing out the God Emperor getting told to fuck off by Saudi Arabia and the US withdrawing its forces from Europe isn't a show of strength.
Neither is continuing to cut checks in perpetuity for people who hate you and have adopted views on free speech and free markets completely opposed to yours despite being nominal allies.
 
Let's be real, Europe isn't in any danger of having Russian tanks rolling over through the Fulda gap anytime soon when they can't even project power into their next door neighbors. Russia has done a great job at revealing themselves to be a paper tiger that probably couldn't even beat the 80s era Red Army.

Europe isn't in danger of being overrun by a foreign power any time soon because they're surrounded by lightweights, but that's not what has their jimmies rustled. What has them pissed is that they've shown themselves how completely useless and feckless they are in the world stage. I'm not the biggest fan of Israel and I have my concerns about the Iran War, but if there's one thing that makes me smile is how it utterly destroyed the post-Soviet End of History consensus.

The only way you get a seat at the big boys table is if you have power. Economic power, cultural power, and military power, all of which they have done an impressive job at self-sabotaging since at least the mid 2000s. You can tell just how fucking pissed off that nobody gives a solitary shit about what they think of the Palestine war or that Trump didn't even bother to tell them about killing the Ayatollah. All of it because they have been shown to be completely irrelevant in any meaningful way aside. The only thing Eurocucks can do is wag their fingers while being smarmy about their cradle to grave welfare state they only have because Uncle Sam decided to subsidize them since the 40s. Take that away from them and the only impressive thing they've done in the past 3 generations is to set the record in how quickly they can destroy a high trust society.
 
And what is the stable point of rightist politics we all live inside a Norman Rockwell painting for all eternity? Total jeet genocide? Total capitalist domination of every aspect of human existence? That one cartoon that looks out on the desert wasteland with the caption "But for a moment we created a lot of shareholder value"? I'm really curious
I don't even consider myself a rightist, if you need to hit me with the left or right dynamic then by all means, I lean right; but as for what the leftist idea of what right is, or what the rightist idea of what right is, as it pertains to America, I'm neither, and before you get any silly ideas, I'm not really a libertarian (neither big or small L as they say). But if you're asking what my idea of what politics should be; not being eternally chained to a fucking problem. Whether it's Israel, Europe/EU, NATO/UN, and other bullshit that we get coerced into by the sheer virtue of having an agreement. Should we be curteous and have relationships with our neighbors, yes, should we strive to have beneficial dealings and exchanges with our neighbors, yes; but should we bend over backwards and be taken advantage of and even mocked and derided for the agreement multiple bodies have made? If the agreement isn't binding or enforced or metrics are not being met, then we should do everything we can to uncouple ourselves from such agreements; whether we're the ones not upholding our end or not, there's no reason to pretend to have some sort of binding agreement/resolution when it's only enforced selectively. The European countries don't want to pay their 2% or whatever it is for NATO, fine, then we'll fuck off and go home. That's how agreements/contracts work, you either meet your obligations or you don't, and if you don't, you dissolve it. I'm not gonna sit down and play patty cake with a bunch of brown cock sucking eurofags who think Norman Rockwell or total jeet death is some right-wing pie in the sky. If you're gonna argue gay theatre kid behavior and antics for your political stance, I'll kindly ask you to take a cheese knife to your groin you retarded fucking euro-groid.
 
Today, I will remind them.

Ver archivo adjunto 9067705

This exchange happened 2 years before the CIA-backed Maidan coup, and the resulting annexation of Crimea. It happened 3 years before the Ukraine civil war with their Russian-majority provinces. 4 years before the left suddenly started raving about Russian election interference. All of these happened during the 2nd term a retarded American left gave their guy because he looked black while talking white.

Never let people forget that Obama, the guy elected to "fix" our foreign policy, was wrong about every single foreign policy issue he ever encountered.
Obama was a race huckstering CIA baby nigger with a vindictive and oligarchical domestic policy, but if you think he was wrong about "every single foreign policy issue he ever encountered" your retarded. He was the beginning of the pivot away European continental issues towards China and the Pacific.
 
hould we be curteous and have relationships with our neighbors, yes, should we strive to have beneficial dealings and exchanges with our neighbors, yes; but should we bend over backwards and be taken advantage of and even mocked and derided for the agreement multiple bodies have made? If the agreement isn't binding or enforced or metrics are not being met, then we should do everything we can to uncouple ourselves from such agreements; whether we're the ones not upholding our end or not, there's no reason to pretend to have some sort of binding agreement/resolution when it's only enforced selectively.

If Europe wants us to be their Sugar Daddy? Well, fine.

All we asked is that they not cheat on us openly with their tennis coach if we agreed.

They not only did so, but, when served with the papers for divorce? Just scowled and said "So much for that American devotion to marriage I guess!"
 
Look, this isn't just Eurofag whining, but the US positioned itself as the financial and military hegemon of the west, we, that is Europe, were all but subjugated, in the case of Germany and Austria literally, in the case of France and the UK through loss of international power and incorporation within NATO, so the balance of power has always been aschew. It does not excuse our negligence and niggercattle behavior in terms of EU bureaucracy and importing infinity browns (though the US is and has been on the same path, so go figure), but painting us as petulant children when in reality we were gimped from the very start of the race is slightly unfair. For literal decades we were propagandized in the interest of (((American)))-led globalist markets, of course it's taking time to adjust, if ever we will be able to. As if those dwindling precious few actual white non-cucks in collective Europe are happy with either arrangement.
 
Also? The clusterfuck that is European bureaucracy will be laid bare - demonstrably ineffective - as it will fail to produce even one box of ammo without being drawn into endless bickering over who gets the factory, who gets the contract, are there enough minorities on the brochure? We need a collective plan that benefits everyone after all... oh, and because of environmental regulations? We can't make bullets until a green alternative to lead is found..... T he EU will collapse, tens of thousands of politicians will lose their six-figure sinecures, the European Project will fail, and everyone in the academic-industrial complex who said it was both needed and inevitable will be fatally exposed as a fraud not worthy of credentials.
You forgot to add the decades of bickering over the design of the bullet and that whoever made it would deliberately provide the wrong type of ammo to their "allies" because they are more afraid of being invaded by them than Russia.
 
Folks don't realize how much this fucks the Euro-cucks.

For decades they've been propping up their ultra generous social programs, which they love to lord over the US, by not having to pay...well anything for defence. While every other nation state has to shell out massive dollars to provide for their own defence.

Now suddenly the Euro-cucks are going to be forced to choose between keeping all those lovely, expensive, social programs running or enjoying a Slav boot on their necks. We know which they will choose, but damn son, will the populace howl when the cutback starts.

I for one will try to endure the anguish and pain the Europeans will suffer over the next decade. Somehow I will push on.
Oh, some of us realise. And welcome it. Not the "slav boot on the neck" because that's silly - Russia isn't dumb enough to even want European countries. And in any case, they've had more than enough war with Ukraine without trying to advance further (the hilarious irony of Poland being Germany's best defence against invasion).

No, we welcome it because welfare is as destructive to countries as it is to the individual. The reason European navies and armies are weak is precisely because the USA after WWII swooped in and said "we'll take care of that." And like most welfare, something is given in return. The USA got to be the pre-eminent power and subjugate Europe.

Iran was probably the breaking point. If it was Europe only being neutral it wouldn't have been as bad, but they outright supported Iran either due to short term economical preferences or to "own Trump". With allies like those what's even the point of any defence pact? Especially as the risk of communism died 20 years ago and nowadays Europe is more commie than Russia is.
The Trump getting butthurt over us not joining in on his/Israel's war with Iran is just the cherry on top. I'd say this became inevitable earlier, with Ukraine. Biden, Newland... they all backed that coup in Ukraine and set the wheels in motion for the war long ago. All those fortifications in Eastern Ukraine, the shelling of the Donbas, all of it - that was before Trump. But the difference is that when it didn't work out, the USA decided to cut its losses and the EU decided to double down. It's the old joke about bacon and eggs. The chicken is involved, but the pig is committed.

This especially because Trump cares only for the USA's interests (and Israel), and isn't part of the globalist cabal like EU leaders and Biden/Newland.

America is like the gambler who said: "this is a bad hand" and cut his losses. The EU is like the gambler who says "if I just bet the house, I can still make back what I lost before the wife finds out."
 
The real reason this is occurring is because of a potential war with China. The troops ultimately are going to be moved towards the Pacific. They can do this because Russia was dumb with their invasion of Ukraine and lost tons of material and men. Realistically even with Europe being as weak as it is, Russia would get bullied by Poland and Finland. They aren’t a threat anymore.

The greatest threat to Europe is their own stupidity regarding their economic and immigration policies. Russia can’t hurt them and to be honest nato isn’t meant for putting down a migrant invasion or populist revolt.
 
We can't make bullets until a green alternative to lead is found.....
Fun fact: the USA has already done that. Both the Army's M855A1 EPR and the Marines' Mk 318 Mod 1 SOST are lead-free, using a longer bullet with copper alloy instead of lead that offers increased hardness for greater effectiveness against hard targets and ballistic coefficient.

Saving lives and the environment!
 
Atrás
Top Abajo