Yu-Gi-Oh! / Duel Monsters - RIP Dueling Network and YGOPro

[Leaf Wage Slave Jr]

I feel the yu gi oh is dying is a really shit psy op to generate clicks and views. The meta game is pretty good currently. Genesys does need some point adjustments to Artmage, Psychic pile, but it is overall fine.

The “Yugioh is dying” bit is mostly just memes and clickbait at this point - the only legitimate way Yugioh dies is if the entire TCG market collapses in on itself to the point Konami can’t financially support printing new cards, but at that point we have very, VERY different problems.

Does Yugioh have its problems, yeah, but that’s every TCG (hell, every fucking game in existence). That said, Yugioh has survived some actual dogshit formats, and while I feel like they should pump the brakes a touch on power level, that’s just the downside of an eternal format.

 

[McMitch]

TCGs have always performed akin to video games: where your product doesn’t need to be good, it just has to hold out long enough for the other game to trip over its own dick. Yugioh is definitely in a better spot than it’s competition; MtG has had production issues on top of turning the game into cardboard Funko pops, and good luck finding a pack of Pokémon cards anywhere due to scalpers.

 

[Incecticyder]

TCGs have always performed akin to video games: where your product doesn’t need to be good, it just has to hold out long enough for the other game to trip over its own dick.

I slightly disagree. I do agree that waiting for the opponent to trip is the smartest strategy but in order to not trip yourself, you need to actively try to be good.

Yugioh is definitely in a better spot than it’s competition;

That is true.

MtG has had production issues on top of turning the game into cardboard Funko pops,

Which is a bit unwise. Imo, they should have restricted this into an once per year event if at all. Remember how YGO has "Deck-Build Packs" like "Phantom Revenge"? Have one pack per year be the "Universes Beyond Pack" and restrict the crossover cards to that. It would diminish the complaints by a lot, I think.

and good luck finding a pack of Pokémon cards anywhere due to scalpers.

TPC at least is trying hard to keep the game accessible to kids. That builds a lot of good will from actual fans/players.

Imo, MtG will be the first of the Big 3 to go down. When you have a format people do not like, you can survive. When you have a product that a lot of the players do not like, you can survive. When you have printing issues to the point a high number of cards end up being unplayable, you cannot survive unless you fix shit. When you have all the above issues at the same time, you better fix shit FAST! I do not think it is too pessimistic to say this. A year or two of this shit going on and WORSENING will be a major blow to the playerbase to the point it cannot recover fast enough once it gets fixed and keep Hasbro and WotC afloat. They barely are afloat NOW!

But I have a question: If one of the Big 3 goes down, which will replace it? My bet? Digimon. One Piece is a good candidate too but I think it has too many issues to be customer friendly enough. I think it will remain AROUND the top without actually reaching it.

 

[Spooky Dogwood]

I think the only thing that will kill Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG is if they simply can't get the next generation into the game.

That is the issue with the TCG side of things(purportedly not as much of an issue in the OCG), and I don't think a financially worthwhile way to onboard new players exists in Konami's eyes. I think there needs to be a sort of progression format. Duel Links for example got a lot of people back in the game and started with barebones Yugioh before becoming what it is today, and it helped millions of players get up to speed as the game steadily got more and more complex, but there's nothing really like that now. That should have been what MD was like on release IMO, but instead a lot of potential new players ended up against infinite herald negates and Rhongo Bongo.

 

[Right To Bear Blarms]

I feel the yu gi oh is dying is a really shit psy op to generate clicks and views. The meta game is pretty good currently. Genesys does need some point adjustments to Artmage, Psychic pile, but it is overall fine.

The other games have much bigger issues. Pokémon has kneeled to social justice and is occupied by Reddit/Gays and Groomers. The game has resorted to being literal fucking gacha. The amount of political sperging in this community is wild. I know people personally who have left just because it is so toxic. Legit posts are mourning Iran's leader's death, and have trans flags in bio. Honestly, I would kill for a non-biased study on the Pokémon TCG community.

From trying out other TCGs/CCGs over the years, none of them really scratch the same itch as YGO.
For me at least, YGO is the game where things happen. Most people I know who say they play MtG just play Commander which might as well be Mario Party at this point. Standard sucks megaballs and with the extended rotation period everyone knows it'll continue to suck for years to come. I tried to play some Hearthstone recently and that game is just mindnumbing. Watching some ape take 100 seconds to make the epic play of playing the 3 mana card on turn 3 makes me want to jump in front of a bus and it happens in every match. Outside of the glacial pace of the game, the game is STILL infested with mid-2010s "lol so random" and wine aunt humor.
With YGO, I can sit down and do the thing my deck is trying to do right from the start and so does my opponent. Sure, some games can be a wash if you open 3 Ash, Saji, and Mitsurugi Mirror but you just go next.
The most annoying people to me are the boomers like Cimooooooo who just bitch endlessly that the game isn't normal summon Shura, set Bottomless anymore. For me the reason I enjoy the game is that it's balls to the walls insanity right from turn 0.

 

[Incecticyder]

From trying out other TCGs/CCGs over the years, none of them really scratch the same itch as YGO.
For me at least, YGO is the game where things happen. Most people I know who say they play MtG just play Commander which might as well be Mario Party at this point. Standard sucks megaballs and with the extended rotation period everyone knows it'll continue to suck for years to come. I tried to play some Hearthstone recently and that game is just mindnumbing. Watching some ape take 100 seconds to make the epic play of playing the 3 mana card on turn 3 makes me want to jump in front of a bus and it happens in every match. Outside of the glacial pace of the game, the game is STILL infested with mid-2010s "lol so random" and wine aunt humor.
With YGO, I can sit down and do the thing my deck is trying to do right from the start and so does my opponent. Sure, some games can be a wash if you open 3 Ash, Saji, and Mitsurugi Mirror but you just go next.
The most annoying people to me are the boomers like Cimooooooo who just bitch endlessly that the game isn't normal summon Shura, set Bottomless anymore. For me the reason I enjoy the game is that it's balls to the walls insanity right from turn 0.

What most players of other games fail to understand is that their assumption that YGO does not have a resource system is false. There is no inherent resource system. However, each deck is allowed to decide what its resource system is. Spell Counters, Summon Materials, levels, spells, traps, etc. There are also decks with restrictions. Decks that limit what you can activate or summon and more. Most of these guys just parrot others' words without understanding how true they are not.

 

[Right To Bear Blarms]

What most players of other games fail to understand is that their assumption that YGO does not have a resource system is false. There is no inherent resource system. However, each deck is allowed to decide what its resource system is. Spell Counters, Summon Materials, levels, spells, traps, etc. There are also decks with restrictions. Decks that limit what you can activate or summon and more. Most of these guys just parrot others' words without understanding how true they are not.

"YGO is just SOOOOO complicated"
*Shows Nirvana High Paladin or Endymion"
"How could anyone ever hope to understand what these cards do?"
A lot of people see the wall of text on cards and ignore the fact that the way cards are written is to make them as tardproof as possible. The card does what it says and only exactly that.
The hardest part of learning the game is how unforgiving it is when it comes to misplays. Summoning the wrong thing off of Wakaushi (when you have 20 possible targets) can lose the game on the spot. But it turns out you get better at the game by playing the game.

 

[Incecticyder]

"YGO is just SOOOOO complicated"
*Shows Nirvana High Paladin or Endymion"
"How could anyone ever hope to understand what these cards do?"
A lot of people see the wall of text on cards and ignore the fact that the way cards are written is to make them as tardproof as possible. The card does what it says and only exactly that.
The hardest part of learning the game is how unforgiving it is when it comes to misplays. Summoning the wrong thing off of Wakaushi (when you have 20 possible targets) can lose the game on the spot. But it turns out you get better at the game by playing the game.

Literally just practice. Some are too lazy.

Also, here is a link to a guy who recently started playing YGO after having played other card games. He is far more fair than most.

Give him some love.

 

[escampar]

Literally just practice. Some are too lazy.

Also, here is a link to a guy who recently started playing YGO after having played other card games. He is far more fair than most.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=OxgCLdDkcl0
Give him some love.

My brother-in-Christ...
Imma be nice first and tell you that I enjoyed that video, thank you for sharing it.
But that homie had to surrender 100 hours of his life to give that "fair" take (and he mentioned he had some prior knowledge!).
Maybe for you autists less than 100 hours is "lazy", but for normal people? That's insane for what is supposed to be a recreational activity.
Believe it or not, there are people who would like to both play some Yu-Gi-Oh! AND still get laid every now and again.

I think the only thing that will kill Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG is if they simply can't get the next generation into the game.

I feel the yu gi oh is dying is a really shit psy op to generate clicks and views. The meta game is pretty good currently. Genesys does need some point adjustments to Artmage, Psychic pile, but it is overall fine. The other games have much bigger issues.

Look, maybe trading cards, TCGs themselves are dying because they were a product of their time, can't compete with modern entertainment like vidya, don't - can't appeal to children, oversaturated with grifters-profiteers, diminishing children experience and perspective with trading cards. Let's say all of that is 110% true, my autists-in-Christ! how can you receive any fresh blood that overcame all of those hurdles, jumped through all of those hoops, with the current default Yu-Gi-Oh! on-boarding experience that a smart, adult, TCG saavy MTG player still required 100 HOURS to digest? Do you retards not see a problem how that basic fact is actively fucking over the game y'all so vehemently love???

 

[Incecticyder]

My brother-in-Christ...
Imma be nice first and tell you that I enjoyed that video, thank you for sharing it.
But that homie had to surrender 100 hours of his life to give that "fair" take (and he mentioned he had some prior knowledge!).
Maybe for you autists less than 100 hours is "lazy", but for normal people? That's insane for what is supposed to be a recreational activity.
Believe it or not, there are people who would both like to play some Yu-Gi-Oh! AND still get laid every now and again.

Good God! Would you please stop? He was just STARTING THE GAME! He had to learn the mechanics, build decks to see what fits his tastes, modify the decks to try new strategies and start understanding the game! And some of the time he was playing for FUN because he enjoyed it! There is no TCG in the world that does not have a learning curve!

That guy is not an average player, he is someone who went really deep trying to understand the game beyond the point casuals do. He even looked into older formats, he went through some of the differences between the OCG, TCG and MD formats when it was relevant, he talked to pro players, he analyzed every aspect of the game with multiple metrics into consideration! He wanted context for every aspect of the game! He also compared it to other games he has played, such as MtG and others. In order to make proper analogues, it takes time! It did not take him 100 hours to wet his feet! It took him 100 hours to do all that! The average casual does not need to do all that to get into the game! He did it to make sure he understands enough to make a proper review for a game he might start playing and making content for! 100 hours for something you might make videos for and spend money on as well as make money on is not all that big a deal!

You do not understand what is going with the game or the medium and only listen to half the things we tell you!

 

[Right To Bear Blarms]

My brother-in-Christ...
Imma be nice first and tell you that I enjoyed that video, thank you for sharing it.
But that homie had to surrender 100 hours of his life to give that "fair" take (and he mentioned he had some prior knowledge!).
Maybe for you autists less than 100 hours is "lazy", but for normal people? That's insane for what is supposed to be a recreational activity.
Believe it or not, there are people who would like to both play some Yu-Gi-Oh! AND still get laid every now and aga

Hyper competitive games are as if not more popular than they've ever been.
CS, League of Legends, Valorant, Deadlock, even Chess is more popular than ever.
All of these games require massive time investment to reach a skill threshold where you perform consistently.

 

[FK009]

I’m more of a casual, can someone on this thread explain why Dark Magician of Destruction and Gaze of Timias, as well as the Shining Sarc DMG are so expensive? Thank god I got three of the last one when it was still cheap for my yugi deck but jeez.

 

[Incecticyder]

Dark Magician of Destruction

Easy to summon, easy to re-summon, searches, is treated as DM which is very good in this deck and is overall one of the best cards in the archetype.

Gaze of Timias

Quick summons Dragoon. It is banished after a while but there is little chance this deck will not punish whoever forced you to use it by then.

Shining Sarc DMG

Strong part of a powerful, versatile engine.

 

[FK009]

Easy to summon, easy to re-summon, searches, is treated as DM which is very good in this deck and is overall one of the best cards in the archetype.


Quick summons Dragoon. It is banished after a while but there is little chance this deck will not punish whoever forced you to use it by then.


Strong part of a powerful, versatile engine.

Thank you! It sucks most of my decks are anime based sometimes, lol. Least the mask heroes are relatively cheap. Is Dark Magician meta at the moment, or is DMoD used in a mixed engine?

 

[Incecticyder]

Thank you! It sucks most of my decks are anime based sometimes, lol. Least the mask heroes are relatively cheap. Is Dark Magician meta at the moment, or is DMoD used in a mixed engine?

Currently we are at a varied meta. You can play most things you might want (unless you decide to dig up Don Zaloog control) and provided you know what you are doing, you can build a winning deck with some staples here and there. Just have the occasional back-up plan. Unless you are one negate away from a surrender, you are probably at a good place with your hand.

 

[Tony Martin's Force Ghost]

I love how batshit crazy VSK9 is. The deck is literally "LETS GO GAMBLING" of RNG hand. The shit you can make is just absolutely fucking gross. I run the Giant Hand version instead. Off 1 Razen I got, Rock, Ripper Cgiant hand, Princess and S P.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

Saw this video on my feed and figured I'd share it here. As far as my take on the situation goes because I liked it when I was younger, the game is really unapproachable to new players. It's very difficult to get into and learn how to play. It's not impossible, but it is difficult. I don't see how kids are supposed to figure this out the way they would MTG. I know this will be a hot take, but I think Archetypes present more of an issue than people realize. If I open a pack of Pokemon or MTG, I can put these cards in a deck and while not good, I can play with them. That's not the case for Yu-Gi-Oh, since everything is Archetypes, half a pack is guaranteed to be either non-functional cards or something I can't use.

That being said, no Yu-Gi-Oh is not dead. I played Duel Links for awhile when it came out and, I was actually really, really good at it. I was an upper tier player and I haven't played in years. It was a really fun meta to start out in. If Konami got a little more creative and put a little more effort in, even if the physical card game died, Yu-Gi-Oh probably could and would monopolize the online CG market and compete with Hearthstone.

Here's an idea Konami: Master Duel Ladder Format. Introduce a limited pool of cards into a sealed format and once the ladder season resets, everything is gone. You can keep the cards, but they're not legal in the format anymore. Make each a pack a buck or less, and you print money. Komoney would never let it be that cheap, but you get the idea. You'll go whaling real quick, as long as you aren't like WOTC, and can award decent prizes, you'd be fine. Then Archetypes can become an advantage because you can just pair a few existing archetypes into a format.

 

[Man In A Dress]

If I open a pack of Pokemon or MTG, I can put these cards in a deck and while not good, I can play with them. That's not the case for Yu-Gi-Oh, since everything is Archetypes, half a pack is guaranteed to be either non-functional cards or something I can't use.

Don't mainline booster sets have at least 30 cards to be "free agents" to precisely avoid pure archetype/type restrictions?

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

The most annoying people to me are the boomers like Cimooooooo who just bitch endlessly that the game isn't normal summon Shura, set Bottomless anymore. For me the reason I enjoy the game is that it's balls to the walls insanity right from turn 0.

I understand what you're saying, but you also have to understand the majority of people are not like this. That has to do with a person's relationship to player agency. Most people like to make choices and feel like those choices have impact. Consistency actively works AGAINST player agency. I love Boomer Yugioh because I like player agency and choices. I HATE consistency. Consistency takes all the fun out of the game for me. If a game is the same thing every time and the only difference is Nib or Ash or Max C is played, it's no longer fun. Yugioh long since became a game that is not fun for me. I am not alone in this sentiment. That is why card stores now have basically abandoned Yu-Gi-Oh because the majority of people need to feel like the player has agency. I understand some consistency is the point, but Yu-Gi-Oh has been min/maxed on it thanks to certain development decisions.

If you don't believe me, I went to a few trading card conventions recently and there was almost NO Yu-Gi-Oh. The only Yu-Gi-Oh cards I found at one of the conventions were in tossed in a cardboard box on like one table out of hundreds. Forget protectors, they were just raw dog tossed in a fucking box for 5 for $1. Things like Trishula, and older staples. That's how worthless the cards are to store owners and vendors nowadays. They are dumping them.

Don't mainline booster sets have at least 30 cards to be "free agents" to precisely avoid pure archetype/type restrictions?

I don't know. I haven't opened a pack in years. Maybe it was fixed at some point.

 

[Incecticyder]

I know this will be a hot take, but I think Archetypes present more of an issue than people realize. If I open a pack of Pokemon or MTG, I can put these cards in a deck and while not good, I can play with them. That's not the case for Yu-Gi-Oh, since everything is Archetypes, half a pack is guaranteed to be either non-functional cards or something I can't use.

That is only an issue if you truly do not know what you are doing. It is really is not as hard as you think it is. That issue you mentioned is only if you try to get into the game by buying BOOSTER packs. You rarely are supposed to build a deck with that. You either get a deck or a Deck-Build Pack. You can also trade and buy cards you do not want for your deck. Also, staples are always recommended and those are reprinted to the point they are very cheap. Just a bit of research can save money and time.

Here's an idea Konami: Master Duel Ladder Format. Introduce a limited pool of cards into a sealed format and once the ladder season resets, everything is gone. You can keep the cards, but they're not legal in the format anymore. Make each a pack a buck or less, and you print money. Komoney would never let it be that cheap, but you get the idea. You'll go whaling real quick, as long as you aren't like WOTC, and can award decent prizes, you'd be fine. Then Archetypes can become an advantage because you can just pair a few existing archetypes into a format.

That does not work in YGO. It rarely works in other games. If you want to try the game, you go to Project Ignis and go wild as everything is free. Archetypes are rarely as xenophobic as you make them out to be.