Game Developers of Kiwi Farms

Make your game, then if you make another reuse what you can, write what you can't. After a few different projects you'll have your own "engine". Getting lost in the weeds of "what engine do I use" is one of the many traps leading you to never actually end up finishing a game project.
 
Do people bother building their own engines, or is it better to just use Unity, Unreal, Godot, etc?
I'll be a pedantic sod, it depends how you define engine.

The kinds of people who insist you write everything in assembly or go on about "bare metal" coding generally don't make things. When they do, it tends to be years to make something very limited and specific. Gameboy homebrew, Mega Drive homebrew, Rom hacks, that kind of thing.

There's also the unstated major "engine" of languages/libraries. Not slap fights over rust or C++, but things like XNA (I don't know what the modern equivariant is. Vulkan?) that handle a lot of the complex boilerplate stuff like drawing the screen or communicating with specific brands of graphics cards. I might be talking out of my arse, but I think this is part of the popularity of hated languages like Lua and Java? I never hear people who talk about making their own engines discuss things like v-sync, variable refresh monitors, or the size ratio of pixels. I assume that stuff is handled for them, or have been standardized to irrelevance?

I mentioned earlier in the thread my confusion of implementing a rounding function. Like @synthetic_glazer said, there's this attitude of just asking AI to do it, or copy pasting code without understanding it, so it makes me question how much of these home made engines the proponents actually understand.
 
XNA (I don't know what the modern equivariant is. Vulkan?)
XNA has really two main modern equivalents, MonoGame and FNA. MonoGame is an XNA based framework (including shit like namespaces) but it doesn't focus itself on replicating the original framework's behaviour. FNA is basically a 1-1 reimplementation of XNA including all of its weird quirks that's really meant for porting but you see it with new games too.
 
Since we're talk about game engines I might as well post this video.


Don't know if I should I posted in programming thread instead of here, he mentions at "choosing your programming language" section how.

He recommends to avoid dynamically typed or interpreted languages, it's not that you can't, it's just they don't do well then your code gets bigger and other stuff he says.

He also recommends language that compiles to native bytecode like C++, C and Rust, C++ is his personal choose because, C++ is a superset of C meaning that anything you can do in C you can do it in C++.
 
Do people bother building their own engines, or is it better to just use Unity, Unreal, Godot, etc?
Going by numbers, ~97.5% of indie games on itch.io use a pre-existing engine or framework, with the remainder being some combination of lesser-used engines and, in some amount, custom-built engines. (Source)
itchioengines.webp

I'll echo what others have said and say your choice really depends on your needs as a developer. Something I do want to add is that the more familiar you are with programming and game development, the more mileage you'll get out of an engine. Like how Ren'py is a go-to for visual novels- there're plenty of games that look and feel like a renpy game. But on the flip side, if you know what you're doing you can ascend beyond that, like Doki Doki Literature Club. Similarly, there are a bunch of games (especially Steam shovelware) that instantly has that "Unity look" to it, just as plenty of Unity Games look like their own thing.

Plenty of people use pre-existing engines and I wouldn't really say that's a bad thing so long as you don't have a complacent "the engine will handle it for me" mindset. There are a few things in Unity I didn't like, so I made my own versions to replace Unity's built-in components. Particle effects, animators, billboarding scripts... They didn't fit with what I wanted to create and the level of control I wanted to have. It's fine- even good- to make use of what an engine already has in place for you so long as you don't let it constrain you or force you to alter your vision (since if you're tailing it to what the engine already has, it'll end up looking a lot more generic.)

A skilled dev can use an engine more as a stepping stone than a crutch. If you want to make your own- go for it. It'd be a great learning experience at the very least. But as they say, "work smarter, not harder."
 
If your game is really simply it might be more work and headache to learn and deal with someone else's engine when you can purpose build one for yours.
 
These penis lickers using a premade programming language and IDE to make their custom game engines. You’re a poser if you arent creating your own assembly compiler to make your own game engine to make a game.
What about HolyC?
 
I'm done with learning to code. I just cant, it's too autistic, heavy and time intensive for me. Maybe someday I will learn it properly but right now I can't.

But I am an ideas/artist guy. I have many ideas for games, some of which fleshed out and some not so much. Some are beyond the scope of indie and some are not. I'm sorta desperate for a programmer buddy who I can do stuff with cause I see this combo working with the likes of ed mcmillen and Tyler glaiel among other newgrounds type people (dan paladin and tom fulp, jeff and tom fulp). What should I do?
 
I'm done with learning to code. I just cant, it's too autistic, heavy and time intensive for me. Maybe someday I will learn it properly but right now I can't.

But I am an ideas/artist guy. I have many ideas for games, some of which fleshed out and some not so much. Some are beyond the scope of indie and some are not. I'm sorta desperate for a programmer buddy who I can do stuff with cause I see this combo working with the likes of ed mcmillen and Tyler glaiel among other newgrounds type people (dan paladin and tom fulp, jeff and tom fulp). What should I do?
maybe try learning an engine instead of a raw programming language. gamemaker, rpgmaker, godot, those should be easier than unity or unreal i think.
i hear working with them requires less technical coding skill than coding stuff directly
 
maybe try learning an engine instead of a raw programming language. gamemaker, rpgmaker, godot, those should be easier than unity or unreal i think.
i hear working with them requires less technical coding skill than coding stuff directly
I've tried gamemaker but tinkering with game logic still seems out of my grasp. I'm not a numbers guy so the numbers are a bit screwed. I have also tried rpgmaker and that while easier requires a ton of plugins and some knowledge of javascript to make something good, like on the level of off, funger or something like that. I have tried monogame/XNA which is the closest I came to actual proper code and I had a very hard time trying to learn graphics processing. I have tried unity and it's just an unwieldy piece of shit which barely runs.

Maybe I should put in more effort, I could learn gamemaker and rpgmaker proper but I don't have much time due to the 9-5 hassle. It would take at least 4 years to get competent enough to make games if I were to put real effort into them.
 
I have tried unity and it's just an unwieldy piece of shit which barely runs.
Unreal is set up to be used primarily thru blueprints which are visual logical representations of code blocks, an apt comparison would be scratch I guess, plus with the ammount of shop shit you can import whatever free models you want and then start small with scripting.
Wouldn't recommend Godot for anything past a small demo since you'll quickly outgrow it's limits and need to mess with the engine itself. If you think UE5 is too heavy for your needs just go for UE4, all that UE5 gives is AI Assisted tools and workflows, if you keep using UE4 with smaller textures you should do fine unlesss your PC is below the modern mid spec.
 
Unreal is set up to be used primarily thru blueprints which are visual logical representations of code blocks, an apt comparison would be scratch I guess, plus with the ammount of shop shit you can import whatever free models you want and then start small with scripting.
Wouldn't recommend Godot for anything past a small demo since you'll quickly outgrow it's limits and need to mess with the engine itself. If you think UE5 is too heavy for your needs just go for UE4, all that UE5 gives is AI Assisted tools and workflows, if you keep using UE4 with smaller textures you should do fine unlesss your PC is below the modern mid spec.
I actually want to like Unity. Unreal seems like too much of an industry standard and I believe its not used that much for Indie games. Unity was used to make a lot of games I like like Hollow Knight and Silksong. Most of the ideas I have are for isometric and/or 2d top down games, very indie style games. Unreal will not handle them well and will be too complex for them. The only idea I have which might be okay for something like Unity or Unreal is a PS1 Resident Evil style horror game but with the real time sandbox mechanics of Dead Rising 1 (Think combat and tank controls/complex navigation with some complex interactivity. Youre trapped in a location divided into 5 zones and there are several events which popup in each zone based on real time. You have to learn to navigate the environment with the combat and obstacles while managing the events and time. The location itself changes over time with some events/zone access requiring specific items or routes. That will give player choices which will further influence story/events/ending.). Gamemaker would probably be most suitable since Ive seen a lot of Newgrounds games I really like made using it but I probably have to put in a lot of effort to learn it.

Maybe Im asking too much and trying to skip to the end but right now I cant really invest years of my life in learning a mediocre engine well. I would rather invest that time in learning how to write my own small scale engine which is better optimized and runs well. And both of those prospects are difficult.
 
Última edición:
I actually want to like Unity. Unreal seems like too much of an industry standard and I believe its not used that much for Indie games. Unity was used to make a lot of games I like like Hollow Knight and Silksong. Most of the ideas I have are for isometric and/or 2d top down games, very indie style games. Unreal will not handle them well and will be too complex for them.
Unity and Unreal are both engines, you use them to make whatever game you want, Unity has more options for purely 2D but it also requires a certain ammount of C# knowledge to script. Point here is to just focus on using an Engine you think you can comfortably use (Blueprints) and keep at it, both Unity and Unreal have ginourmous ammounts of tutorials that you can rely upon and the biggest support bases as well, instead of being plagued by pre-production future proofing try to just make something small and take it from there.
If you find it hard to stick to learning programming broadly then I would also say you shouldn't make your own engine as well, it has become easier and easier since the years with how graphics libraries are becoming more documented and how there are more examples but it's still a pretty harduous task that takes knowhow and very good knowledge of games at a technical level, and what your game is going to need. A already made engine gives you a lot more flexibility and speed.
 
Maybe Im asking too much and trying to skip to the end but right now I cant really invest years of my life in learning a mediocre engine well. I would rather invest that time in learning how to write my own small scale engine which is better optimized and runs well. And both of those prospects are difficult.
I will say that whatever time you invest in any given engine isn't wasted just because you decide it isn't for you. You'll gain a lot of soft skills by learning the ins and outs of an engine, so even if it won't map one-to-one with what you do end up using, you'll at least have a grasp of the principles that broadly apply to most engines. Update loops, deltatime, and even in general lots of coding concepts that make a lot more sense when you're using them than they do in the abstract when you're first learning them.

So don't feel like you're completely boxed in by whatever engine you decide to learn, because it's really not like that- learning one will make all subsequent engines a lot simpler to grasp.
 
Just wanna say i'm in the works of a re-imagining of the moon-man doom mod. I am considering making a brutal doom wad but that is just an after thought. My main goal is update it to today's times and make is more offensive and add new enemies like leftists, animal rights, faggots, troon's, gooners, furfags and weebs a long side the ethnic minorities. I have sprited some characters including moon man. But that's all im gonna say.
 
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