Christian theology thread for Christians - Deus homo factus est naturam erante, mundus renovatus est a Christo regnante

[Großmann]

But why? What I'm trying to say is, why can't we be God other than "He just said we can't, okay?"

God is different from a “god.” I like this definition of God from Saint Anselm: “God is that which nothing greater can be conceived.” When you really think about God, he is the ultimate beginning and end (Α/Ω) of existence. Can (You) really be God if existence predated your beginning?

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

But why? What I'm trying to say is, why can't we be God other than "He just said we can't, okay?"

It's the equivalent of asking "why can't God make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?"

God's omnipotence means that he has limitless power to effect change, in the sense that whatever is possible to be done, he can do.

It is not possible for a rock to be infinitely large, because only God is infinite. It is equally not possible for a being other than God to be God, because only God is God. For either to be otherwise would be a contradiction, and God is not contradictory. He is always true to himself.

 

[Venial Sneeds]

understand Him and His divinity better?

At the Final Judgement God will fully reveal His plans, so that covers this.

where we're sinless

You are sinless in Heaven - freed from guilt and cleansed from corruption.

don't have the free will to disobey Him

Free will is good. It makes good choices special.

"But why can't I choose to X/Y/Z ?"

Because God will have revealed Himself, and whatever He has planned for you is so cool you'll want to play along instead of creating your own universes or doing anything else.

 

[FlawlessCowboy]

A central part of the Catholic and Orthdox branches is that man was made with the ability to say "no" to God because God wants man to come to know and love him freely and to eventually be like him. There is a philosophy that I like, but still am conflicted on in that God didn't make man perfect because perfection would just be expansion. Something imperfect was made with the potential and ability to be good.

You are your own being and able to say no because ultimately if you couldn't you'd be less than a lobotomized slave. God doesn't want slaves, he wants sons and daughters.

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 247 - Why are you disappointed? Because of the tremendous disproportion between your desires and your realizations. Your soul has a certain infinity about it, because it is spiritual. But your body, like the world around you, is material, limited, "combined, cribbed, confined."

 

[Chicha Drinker]

A central part of the Catholic and Orthdox branches is that man was made with the ability to say "no" to God because God wants man to come to know and love him freely and to eventually be like him. There is a philosophy that I like, but still am conflicted on in that God didn't make man perfect because perfection would just be expansion. Something imperfect was made with the potential and ability to be good.

You are your own being and able to say no because ultimately if you couldn't you'd be less than a lobotomized slave. God doesn't want slaves, he wants sons and daughters.

Its why Calvinism is such a weird belief, it corrects one percieved discrepency (fate vs free will) that wasnt even really a discrepency to begin with, and by doing so, undermines a huge chunk of Christian belief and turns one of the most optimistic religions into a bleak and nihilistic one. The Christian God gives us free will and allows us to get closer to him, if we so desire. The Calvinist god is an entity that creates and controls sentient puppets and torments them for no real reason.

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

Its why Calvinism is such a weird belief, it corrects one percieved discrepency (fate vs free will) that wasnt even really a discrepency to begin with, and by doing so, undermines a huge chunk of Christian belief and turns one of the most optimistic religions into a bleak and nihilistic one. The Christian God gives us free will and allows us to get closer to him, if we so desire. The Calvinist god is an entity that creates and controls sentient puppets and torments them for no real reason.

Wrong. Calvin, like many theologians before and after him, was a compatibilist. Augustine was one, Aquinas was one as well.

People love throwing around "Calvinism" like some kind of bogeyman, but frequently get the basics about what reformed Christianity even is. Free will is one of the most obvious examples of this.

 

[Chicha Drinker]

Wrong. Calvin, like many theologians before and after him, was a compatibilist. Augustine was one, Aquinas was one as well.

People love throwing around "Calvinism" like some kind of bogeyman, but frequently get the basics about what reformed Christianity even is. Free will is one of the most obvious examples of this.

Ask a calvinist and a catholic what free will is, see which one is a straightforward definition, and which one is a mangled and retrofitted explanation designed to fit with a very specific theological POV. Double predestination is nihilistic and would be the act of a cruel god, which the Christian God is not.

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

Ask a calvinist and a catholic what free will is, see which one is a straightforward definition, and which one is a mangled and retrofitted explanation designed to fit with a very specific theological POV. Double predestination is nihilistic and would be the act of a cruel god, which the Christian God is not.

You have not addressed what I have said at all. Compatibilists believe that man simulatenously has freedom to choose what they will do, and that God is entirely sovereign over everything that happens. Two wills happen in total unison, eg. Genesis 50:20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today."

Compatibilism is the position of reformed Christianity, but only because it has been the Christian position since day dot. It has been carried through from the early church, into the medieval church, into the reformation, into today. And yet apparently Calvin is soooo evil for holding this standard, Biblical position.

 

[Thomas Talus]

Why would God's ultimate plan for us not involve us eventually learning to become Gods ourselves so we can create our own universes and understand Him and His divinity better?

Sir, this is the thread for Christian theology, not Mormon theology.

 

[Twix Eatr]

Any spiritual experience which is of God proves itself as being from God by aligning with and pointing us back to the only certain revelation from God that we have: the Bible. If it tries to draw us away from the Bible, away from his unchanging truth, and instead feeds an obsession with trying to understand some further hidden reality, it is not from God. It is instead from the devil, himself a spiritual being, followed by other spiritual beings that have rejected God, and who take great pleasure in distracting us from Jesus so that we will be taken down with them on the day he returns.

The Gnostics love imagining that they have the 'real', hidden truth, but they have no such thing. Satan loves their delusions of grandeur. God's truth is plainly understood. Experimentation with drugs to find the 'hidden spiritual truth' is just another version of the Gnostic phenomeon.

Contentedness is from the Holy Spirit, and that includes being content with the knowledge of God that we have now, knowing that if we trust in Jesus, we will know him in full and see him face-to-face for all eternity in the future.

Sorry, a few random thoughts (numbering them for ease of replying, if anybody wants to):

1.

How would you classify this?

2. How do y'all "interpret" the Logos? It's the representation of Christ, correct? But other humans interpret it as logic or reason or something? Do Christians just recognize "the word" as the human instantiation of the Christ, which is God himself in the form of a "son" to die for our sins?

3. Do y'all ever think about the paradoxical nature of God? To me, I almost feel bad for Him in the sense that he must be lonely or also wonder why He's here Himself. Or is this just a non-starter because God understands everything?

4. I write down lots of passages that I find intriguing. I like Leviticus 19:18, "‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord."

5. Are Christians required to atone/repent for their sins prior to their day of judgment, or is that when it happens and you'll have your little review and either acknowledge your sins and repent or not?

Have a good day, y'all.

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

How would you classify this?

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."

 

[Venial Sneeds]

Speaking of demons, what do we all think of the creepy demon thing that the Minneapolis shooter drew in the mirror?

I'd be skeptical of possession, but obsession could've been possible.

 

[Chicha Drinker]

You have not addressed what I have said at all. Compatibilists believe that man simulatenously has freedom to choose what they will do, and that God is entirely sovereign over everything that happens. Two wills happen in total unison, eg. Genesis 50:20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today."

Compatibilism is the position of reformed Christianity, but only because it has been the Christian position since day dot. It has been carried through from the early church, into the medieval church, into the reformation, into today. And yet apparently Calvin is soooo evil for holding this standard, Biblical position.

So are you saying Calvinism is no different than any other church doctrine, or are you mad I used the term "Calvinism" for some reason when some other term might be better. Because the latter is just a nitpick, while the former is just wrong.

 

[Candlelight Desolation]

So for those who have read it (Both Catholic and Protestant), what are the collective opinions on the Left Behind series of novels by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins? This also includes the surprisingly canon "The Kids" sub-series, the Military books by Mel Odom, and the Political ones by Neesa Hart. As a Catholic, aside from the whole rapture heresy, there are a whole ton of other outright heretical or downright insulting things in these novels that feel like they were written by the most Noahidist heretics imaginable.

The Harpazo isn't heresy, the common thing throughout the Bible are righteous people (the elect in this case) being removed before judgment strikes. See also: Sodom and Gomorrah, Enoch and Noah's Flood in Genesis, also resurrection of the dead before the Magog invasion, the church stops being talked about after Revelation 3. The Left Behind series, from what I understand, is far from Biblically accurate. I'm surprised after so many years there are really no long-form exhaustive theology videos on Christian Youtube or something debunking it.

I love this verse so much: Genesis 5:24 - And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

 

[BIG SHOT Autos]

How would you classify this?

Disclaimer, the YouTuber is a Seventh Day Adventist, so her content and way of thinking may or may not be ... a bit peculiar, at least this is what it was like to me, but you may find these videos interesting. They're a bit long though.

Spoiler

As for the way I see it...

Spoiler

In short, I would classify this as a counterfeit experience. A drug-induced delusion at best, and demonic influence at worst, because all these events usually lead to really inconsistent spiritual concepts that ultimately trap people. Why counterfeit? Because Holy Spirit offers the real deal; you can get visions that shake your worldview or open your eyes on something that you need to see. Except they don't require drugs (you are supposed to be sober minded anyway), point to one true God, and most importantly, they aren't that vague and esoteric.

To this some may say though, but what about the Book of Revelation, that arguably is one of the most puzzling books in the Bible. The way I see it: what's important to keep in mind when we ask this question is that these visions were given to the last apostle for a very specific and grand purpose. We aren't second Johns. Visions that God may want to reveal to us are probably all going to be about pointing us towards Him, and definitely in a very specific, direct way, not by imagery of impersonal God and borderline solipsist "unity" with other people where you're somehow them too. By the way, Christianity offers the real deal once again: Eucharist as a sacrament is about uniting with Jesus AND with all believers through time that ever existed, do exist right now, and will exist after us. I just recently learned that this is why priests and pastors shouldn't bring watches to the altar during the sacrament, at least in denominations that claim apostolic succession.

Unlike Eucharist, practices of this counterfeit union with the "universe" and its parts often descend into futher drug addiction, more delusions, more questionable practices, and who knows what entering your life to lure you further under the assumption that you're uncovering some secret knowledge or "ascending" elsewhere. Meanwhile consuming Christ's body and blood is a very open, straightforward invitation that pretty much anyone can join, their job is to accept invitation*. No weird hidden knowledge, no drugs that may or may not be legal and also mess you up, nothing of that sort.

*Just in case, of course I don't mean random people who have zero idea of what they're doing, nor believe in Jesus, nor want to repent, and such. By "accepting an invitation" I imply here not just Eucharist itself, but also faith as a whole, in contrast to Gnosticism and new age: we aren't required to spend money for some secret hidden information, we aren't required to join some secret society so it will reveal the truth to us and only to us and never in the open, we're not supposed to be taking drugs and practicing other odd methods of "ascending", tearing the veil, or anything of that sorts. All we need from start to finish is to accept God's invitation to know and build a relationship with Him through Jesus.

 

[Froggy Fresh Sextape]

Double predestination is nihilistic and would be the act of a cruel god, which the Christian God is not.

This is just a problem with classical theism in general.

If God is omniscient, God created everything will full foreknowledge of the course of every created being's life, and knew some would toss themselves into eternal torment.

This is why Augustine was like "hmmm, well we'll find out what that's about in the New Creation though," as there is no logical way to reconcile this.

 

[Preacher ✝]

The Wisdom of Bl. Fulton Sheen

Day 248 - In moments when fever, agony, and pain make it hard to pray, the suggestion of prayer that comes from merely holding the rosary-or better still, from caressing the crucifix at the end of it-is tremendous!

 

[Divine Power]

 

[Cassius Crayfish]

How do y'all "interpret" the Logos? It's the representation of Christ, correct? But other humans interpret it as logic or reason or something? Do Christians just recognize "the word" as the human instantiation of the Christ, which is God himself in the form of a "son" to die for our sins?

John's use of the word logos to refer to Jesus is a brilliant turn of phrase that is more straightforward in its day than it is today. Logos would by recognised by any Greek-speaker of the time as a philosophical term, and its exact meaning differered between schools of philosophy, it was understood to be somehow related to wisdom, even a personification of reason. Philo of Alexandria identified logos with the Angel of the Lord, a figure who appears throughout the Old Testament (the Hebrew Bible) and is very clearly God, yet somehow distinct from God.

In the Aramaic targums, which were translations and commentaries of the Hebrew Bible, the term memra is used in place of 'the Lord'. Memra means 'word', the same as logos. These targums shaped the view of many among the Hebrews that there were 'two powers in heaven', God and the Angel/Word of the Lord, both of whom are the same God yet not the same person.

And so when John refers to Jesus as the Word/Logos, he is speaking partly to the Greeks and their understanding of what logos is - that he is true wisdom - but more than that, he is saying to the Jews that Jesus is that same memra, the Angel of the Lord, who has been present eternally and is himself God.

The association with wisdom might even draw one's attention to Proverbs 8, where wisdom is personified and says (among other things) "YHWH fathered me at the beginning of his way," which is what we can say about Jesus, who is eternally the Son of God the Father.

Do y'all ever think about the paradoxical nature of God? To me, I almost feel bad for Him in the sense that he must be lonely or also wonder why He's here Himself. Or is this just a non-starter because God understands everything?

It's a non-starter because God is triune. In that sense he is paradoxical, as we are singular beings and singular persons, but he is one being/essence, yet three distinct persons. But for this reason, he is not lonely - the Father and the Son and the Spirit are persons with eternal relationship. He doesn't have to "wonder why he's here", because he has always existed.

Are Christians required to atone/repent for their sins prior to their day of judgment, or is that when it happens and you'll have your little review and either acknowledge your sins and repent or not?

One must repent and believe in Jesus as Lord and Saviour before the day of judgement. On that day, it will be too late. There is no "little review". Jesus will return in glory, and every knee will bow to him, and be judged according to what they have done. As all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, salvation can only be found by calling upon Jesus to cover our transgressions.