US US Politics General 2: Hope Edition - Discussion of President Trump and other politicians

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Should be a wild four years.

Helpful links for those who need them:

Current members of the House of Representatives
https://www.house.gov/representatives

Current members of the Senate
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Current members of the US Supreme Court
https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/biographies.aspx

Members of the Trump Administration
https://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/
 
Última edición por un moderador:
Facism isnt right wing
You cannot spell the name of the ideology right. That speaks for itself.
It was literally created to be a new, better, Socialism. It's as left wing as it can be.

But the left uses it as a term that means "Bad person, not of our tribe." Same as "National Socialist." Anything to make other leftists to flinch and recoil from those they target.
>right wing Americans
>befuddled by actual right wing politics

Many such cases. - See also to how most Americans react to Monarchism.

This is a problem when you have people in "young" America trying to place political ideologies originating in "old" Europe through a Dem vs. GOP lens. From a POV of American history, "far right" politics would be akin to a lolbert slaver secessionist movement from 140+ years ago which didn't even last half a decade. By this "all variants of Fascism (or Fascism as a political concept period) is left wing because muh socialist/syndicalist" thinking, then Charles Coughlin, GL Rockwell, Charles Lindbergh, and Gerald Smith were all screaming lefties.
 
I respectfully disagree because it's all derived from a sick Hegelian inversion and it's important to note that different Marxist factions fucking hated and killed each other. So what if the Nazis hated Bolsheviks? Maoists hated Soviets and the Vietnamese hated the Khmer Rouge. Every government I just mentioned practiced ethnic cleansing of some sort. It's all the same "we can make a perfect society if only we have enough authority tee hee" bullshit.

When someone calls themselves a socialist, you should take them seriously.

1. The Nazi's were not marxist, they were not even a shade of marxist. The Nazis had a mix of sweeping privatizations of the government AND also sweeping nationalizations.
To label them as a subset of marxism because they called themselves socialists would be like labeling mao a second George Washington because he called china a republic.
"When someone calls themselves a republican you should take them seriously". This is boomer thinking, let's graduate from it.

2. Post World War I Germany chose the most vehemently anti-communist party to run it's government. Claiming the Nazis were somehow just another member of Club Red completely flies in the face of
how the average german viewed the very real possibility of either another Bolshevik revolution or an invasion from the Soviet Union in the future. We can sit around and play tiddlywinks about the definition of socialism
but to the people to whom this term mattered, the German voters of the 1930s, the Nazis were anti-communist neo-agrarian kooks but kooks who could make sure no bolshevik could cause issues in the government.

3. Name a modern state that didn't engage in ethnic cleansing at some point in it's history. We did too and I feel no remorse or guilt about it. Killing is not a left or right thing, it's a human thing before left and right was even a concept.

4. Boomer "left-rightism" spectrum autism doesn't fit everything and the Nazis were such an odd amalgamation of 1890s max weber political science theorycrafting, neo-folk-agrarianism, anti-Marxism,
Christian distributism, Prussian militarism, and about 15 other things, I really can't come to the same conclusion and lump them in with the Democratic Socialists (you know the party they BANNED for being left wing).
Hell, in some ways, we are FAR more socialist than the nazis were, we have so much public money going to the government for the defense industry and for social services. Our government is skads larger than the
apparatus the Nazis set up and like what this did to the nazis, its fucking bleeding us dry.

tl;dr the Nazis might has well have been from another planet with all the good a boomer tier political spectrograph does in analyzing it from that standpoint.
 
"When someone calls themselves a republican you should take them seriously". This is boomer thinking, let's graduate from it.
No. My hatred for communism is too strong, I'm afraid.
We can sit around and play tiddlywinks about the definition of socialism
but to the people to whom this term mattered, the German voters of the 1930s, the Nazis were anti-communist neo-agrarian kooks but kooks who could make sure no bolshevik could cause issues in the government.
One could argue that this was more anti-Russian than anything else but I don't feel strongly enough to make an argument of it, so it suffices to say "fair enough."
3. Name a modern state that didn't engage in ethnic cleansing at some point in it's history. We did too and I feel no remorse or guilt about it. Killing is not a left or right thing, it's a human thing before left and right was even a concept.
There is a difference between killing a group of people "because fuck 'em, that's why" and "because killing these undesirables will make society better," which I argue is a feature - not a bug - of the weird inverted Hegelian/Weberian political systems of the late 1800s to the mid-20th century. That said, your point is still valid and taken.
4. Boomer "left-rightism" spectrum autism doesn't fit everything and the Nazis were such an odd amalgamation of 1890s max weber political science theorycrafting, neo-folk-agrarianism, anti-Marxism,
Christian distributism, Prussian militarism, and about 15 other things, I really can't come to the same conclusion and lump them in with the Democratic Socialists
This is also a very good point. The Nazis were an odd amalgamation, but my view is their genesis comes from the same fucked up interpretations of Continental philosophies of the time period as Marxists. Fascism did not develop separately from Marxism, but in response to it, and shares many features. However, this is a philosophical discussion that probably doesn't belong here. I think it's good enough to say you've made some very valid points and I don't need to delve into my autistic obsession with Western political philosophy.

TL;DR: Hegel was a mistake... the poor bastard.
 
Última edición:
Congrats you put more thought into it than the staffer who made it or Trump who saw it and said "Post it online." It's a meme you dip.

Yes, a child rapist such as Donald J. Trump will use his position of power to make lighthearted jokes to soften the blow over the fact that he frequently had 15-ways with Bill Clinton, Jeffrey Epstein, and 12 Prepubescent minors.
 
Arguing over whether [insert ideology] is right or left wing is incredibly retarded. We live in a world where people proclaim Islam is Feminist, where there are MAGA drag queens, and other numerous contradictory things. If there isn't a horseshoe for ideologies to find themselves on, there is surely a massive clusterfuck of squiggles they can find a home on. Playing these team games is brainlet nigger shit. "Erm actually everything bad in the world is [insert your opposition]'s fault." Some ideologies are retarded, and they might be closer or further away from mine than I would like. That's just reality.

The bait is small, weak, and shriveled on this hook. Try again kiddo.
He can't even be assed to use AI to cosplay a fisherman.
 

You want me to prove that the White House is posting memes about Donald Trump looking like the Pope?

I mean, most people could just go to the White House's social media accounts and take a look for themselves, but like, if you lost your hands in Vietnam and can't use a computer mouse, then, well, I didn't really have respect for veterans to begin with.
 
The incoherence of talking as if there really are only 2 "wings" of politics is silly. You get silly results that look like this:
ACSLCMNF Political Spectrum.webp
Is Libertarianism far left with Anarchism? Centrist? No, no, that spectrum is all wrong! Libertarians are far right because of freedom! Then where do Anarchists go? (:_(

Everyone can agree they hate liberals.
Political Compass - I hate liberals.webp
If only they could agree on what liberals means.

After a while two big parties dominate politics for a while. A "center left" party and a "center right" party; whatever that happens to mean in that political system. Everyone else is thrown into the "far left", "centrist", or "far right" bucket depending on which of the 2 political parties can pander to them.
Political Spectrum - expanding brain.webp

Politics can be reduced to friend/enemy distinction.
Pretty much. Thucydides, Machiavelli, and Carl Schmitt would agree.

tl;dr Socialism is in the Nazi's name but Democratic is in the name of North Korea and Red China. Not all socialism is Marxist.
If you're going to be putting disparate groups in one big tent you need good branding.

Trump's "Make America Great Again" is solid gold-plated political branding. No complicated "isms", spectrums or wings. Do you: like America? Want it to be Great? Think it's damaged, but can work Again? Wanna Make it so? 🇺🇸 MAGA 🇺🇸
 
Última edición:
No, what? I wasn’t saying anything about @Conan
@gay porn is the best porn is the person I was calling a Reddit tier diaper sniffer
The incoherence of talking as if there really are only 2 "wings" of politics is silly. You get silly results that look like this:
Ver archivo adjunto 7312935
Is Libertarianism far left with Anarchism? Centrist? No, no, that spectrum is all wrong! Libertarians are far right because of freedom! Then where do Anarchists go? (:_(

Everyone can agree they hate liberals.
Ver archivo adjunto 7312952
If only they could agree on what liberals means.

After a while two big parties dominate politics for a while. A "center left" party and a "center right" party; whatever that happens to mean in that political system. Everyone else is thrown into the "far left", "centrist", or "far right" bucket depending on which of the 2 political parties can pander to them.
Ver archivo adjunto 7312961


Pretty much. Thucydides, Machiavelli, and Carl Schmidt would agree.


If you're going to be putting disparate groups in one big tent you need good branding.

Trump's "Make America Great Again" is solid gold-plated political branding. No complicated "isms", spectrums or wings. Do you: like America? Want it to be Great? Think it's damaged, but can work Again? Wanna Make it so? 🇺🇸 MAGA 🇺🇸
every time I take a political compass test I’m like one click right and two clicks libertarian, so they’re calling me centrist

But centrist is wholly unsatisfactory, because nobody believes in wignat tier militant centrism. It’s not edgy enough

But what I think the cause is, is because I don’t even really care to use a slippery metric derived from eighteenth century France

Dead ass center is -conservatism- and the clicks away from center represent my desire to revert, to load a prior state from before everything was as fucked as it is
 
they aren't socialist, at least not in practice
The Nazi German economy was remarkably similar to the CCP economy.

You’re defining terms along the lines that they flatter your biases. “I agree” in your case means “left wing” and “I hate it” means right wing

Did either Nazi Germany or Communist China describe THEMSELVES as right wing, or was it the emerging liberal world order that described them as right wing?
 
The Nazi German economy was remarkably similar to the CCP economy.

You’re defining terms along the lines that they flatter your biases. “I agree” in your case means “left wing” and “I hate it” means right wing

Did either Nazi Germany or Communist China describe THEMSELVES as right wing, or was it the emerging liberal world order that described them as right wing?
I'm not fond of the terms right and left because they're never really clearly defined and more often than not subjective. I just put it as right=capitalist. left=communist. I wouldn't say either describe themselves as anything like right or left wing, they were just given a label by the west (US, uk, france). also describe the similarities of the CCP economy to the nazi economy you have my attention at that.
 
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