George RR Martin, his fanboys, and former fanbase

I give Martin a bit of a pass on the logistics of his armies because we have lots of historical examples of armies of tens of thousands even in late ancient times more or less successfully maintaining themselves in the field (Caesar in Gaul, Hannibal in Italy, etc.). If there are cities with granaries around that you can force to gib up those stores, you're usually going to be okay. Humans were pretty good at raising enough crops to maintain such granaries since ~3000 BC in multiple areas of planet earth

Westeros is this weird combination of low and high Middle Ages that every fantasy author seems to love to create no matter how unrealistic it is. The manufacturing and cultural level of the Seven Kingdoms, or at least the aristocracy is very much High Middle Ages. There is a large "middle class" of artisans and merchants in Westeros and a high level of internal and external (with Essos and even farther east) trade, even more than High Middle Ages Europe had with the Islamic world and much more than it had with India/China. But farming in the High Middle Ages was no longer feudal in Western Europe, which is very obviously the putative model for Westeros. In Westeros, feudalism and manorialism are still the economic foundation even though feudalism and manorialism are insufficient to create the amount of material wealth that Westeros produces, from food to fancy wines to metalworking to everything. In the real world, in the 1500s the foundations of modern capitalism had already been laid in the 1400s and even late 1300s, and that's why the 1500s saw an explosion of wealth and trade. It's super unrealistic that every aspect of civilization and society in Westeros is at like a ~1500s level, except when it comes to peasants and agriculture, where it's still at a ~900s level

Shit like Stannis the Mannis knowing that there is a huge army of foot soldiers and cavalry at Bitterbridge just after he killed Renly, and then suddenly forgetting that that army existed when he went to conquer King's Landing is also super unrealistic. We're supposed to believe that Tyrion's clansmen from the Mountains of the Moon completely mogged all of Stannis' scouts in the Kingswood and he had no idea that Tywin's army + that army from Bitterbridge was anywhere near King's Landing, when we're told again and again that Stannis is this experienced and extremely competent military commander - okay George, shut the fuck up retard. Just from getting, apparently, no scouting information from his rear at all, Stannis should have known something was up and planned accordingly. But he doesn't because George is too interested in how many dishes and wines are being served at aristocratic feasts and what those dishes and wines are, gratuitous brutality, and all manner of sexual degeneracy to care
 
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A dragon is an incredible weapon that could conceivably strike anywhere, at any time. While cities may be equipped with siege weapons, Dany would dominate the roads, the mountains, the countryside. Armies would not be able to travel without risk of being decimated en route to their destination. At that point, then, it only a matter of time. Dany has her traditional armies lay siege to a city while the dragons ensure no supplies and no reinforcements are ever forthcoming. And she can pick off city by city until she reaches King's Landing. And then, if she's smart, starve them out.
A good writer would have a lot of ways to fuck over dragons. Like having tiny teams of 3-4 people bunker down with siege weapons on top of every mountain in the area, having every army have multiple siege weapons strapped to carts. Dragon aren't WMDs, they need to get close to their target and it's enough to get a wing shot to kill the rider, and dragon immediately afterwards.
Yet despite adopting their most brutal & ruinous habits, the Dothraki never suffer the consequences that realistically followed for the Plains Indians. Hell nobody is mentioned to have so much as tried turning one khalasar against another (whether with financial bribes, a strategic marriage, whatever) in the history of Essos, even though khalasars are known to fight one another and it's literally the #1 most obvious trick settled civilizations would use to divide & - if not conquer - then at least manage hostile nomads on the horizon (America nothing, China did it all the time with the Mongol tribes before Genghis unified them, for instance). Even Dany's marriage to Drogo is, of course, supposed to facilitate a Dothraki invasion of Westeros and consequent Targaryen restoration rather than bringing peace or an anti-other-Dothraki alliance between Pentos & Drogo's khalasar.
The Dotharki are blatant savage worship, and it's worse in the books. They work by pretending mass rape would make ultimate warriors, and that despite having the mentality of might makes right, they never have internal conflicts.
 
A good writer would have a lot of ways to fuck over dragons. Like having tiny teams of 3-4 people bunker down with siege weapons on top of every mountain in the area, having every army have multiple siege weapons strapped to carts. Dragon aren't WMDs, they need to get close to their target and it's enough to get a wing shot to kill the rider, and dragon immediately afterwards.
I mean if you're just going to magically give every side weapons they don't have, and then give them the ability to, again, magically plant all over the world without being seen by Dany as she flies around, there's little point in talking about "good writing."
 
I mean if you're just going to magically give every side weapons they don't have, and then give them the ability to, again, magically plant all over the world without being seen by Dany as she flies around, there's little point in talking about "good writing."
A ballista is pretty basic old technology, and you can assemble it pretty covertly in mountain ranges without anyone noticing. As far as an investment it's pretty low compared to the danger. Even if it's not a lot of places, it would make the rider think twice which route he takes.
 
A ballista is pretty basic old technology, and you can assemble it pretty covertly in mountain ranges without anyone noticing. As far as an investment it's pretty low compared to the danger. Even if it's not a lot of places, it would make the rider think twice which route he takes.
"Basic technology" that requires skilled and experienced engineers to build.
 
"Basic technology" that requires skilled and experienced engineers to build.
Can't it be built beforehand and assembled afterwards? Especially as you won't get more than 2-3 shots anyways before the dragon burns you in return. Though you can have the engineer construct it inplace and leave it to whoever's manning the post.
 
Can't it be built beforehand and assembled afterwards?
If you had good roads or rivers you could have siege trains and ships transporting siege engines piecemeal to be assembled on site, but if not you had to source the big timber parts locally by cutting down trees. But regardless of which method you used, you still needed skilled engineers and carpenters to assemble the machines and trained artillerists to operate them. It wasn't like buying a table from IKEA and following a manual. This shit required experts.
 
If you had good roads or rivers you could have siege trains and ships transporting siege engines piecemeal to be assembled on site, but if not you had to source the big timber parts locally by cutting down trees. But regardless of which method you used, you still needed skilled engineers and carpenters to assemble the machines and trained artillerists to operate them. It wasn't like buying a table from IKEA and following a manual. This shit required experts.
Of course you need some expertise in it with a lot of training beforehand. But once you get it running it should be extremely effective and comparatively low cost.
 
Of course you need some expertise in it with a lot of training beforehand. But once you get it running it should be extremely effective and comparatively low cost.
The point is you're not gonna magically get them on top of a bunch of mountains and have hundreds of them on the back of carts, for reasons similar to how you're not gonna be able to solve world hunger by magically transporting a bunch of food grown in California to Africa. You're not gonna solve these kinds of logistical problems just by throwing money at them, especially when those problems require experts to be located in places where they would normally not be.
 
I've always been a bit sceptical of ballista or any other similar projectiles being used against dragons in the setting. How fast are those dragons going exactly, what are the odds of hitting one meant to be?
 
Aren't they the forum orbiters? I thought he had some more professional assistants who helped him out with his work, other than those two.
GRRM has two known pairs of assistants. One pair, Elio an Linda, runs the largest wiki for ASOIAF and helped him write his Westeros history books and they probably know more about the book series than anyone other than GRRM. They were also the only high profile people to criticize the direction of Game of Thrones from the start and predict that it would end disastrously based on how the changes from the novels were being done. Linda in particular is the only person in GRRM's circle of writers that ripped on House of the Dragon for race swapping various characters which is why if her name is brought up on reddit or social media she's immediately attacked.

The other pair who worked for GRRM on various projects then went to write The Expanse series of novels and television shows. If you've ever watched or read those stories they are basically Dead Space and Mass Effect ripoffs with little other creativity. And tons of DEI slop as well. To the point where the show looked like it only hired tumblr authors and troons to populate its futuristic world. And half of the characters mumble in this BBC Pidgin speak that is vomitous.

Right now he probably has an army of assistants that help him with travel or ordering pizzas. But not actually writing.
 
Aegon conquered Westeros with three dragons, so all real logistics are irrelevant. People were scared of the dragons and some rather knelt than letting them burn their people to death.

Alas, Aegon was a much better commander than Dany, also generally smarter, but it did happen and she trying to do the same is possible if she plays her cards right. Say, for now, Westeros is highly divided and there are two factions working to bring back the Targaryens. A potential Dany-Aegon-Dorne alliance is so far the most dangerous they could get.
 
Fantasy was never about the logistics of the story, but about the message. Lewis and Tolkien have battles, but what matters to people is not how much the armies were paid or how were the all fed, but the fact that they defeated the enemy.
Yes well, Tolkien never had the temerity to bring up tax policies because he wanted to demonstrate how much more intelligent he was compared to a beloved writer of classics. Martin doing that sort of begs people to poke and pry into his own policies. Woe unto him if they are found wanting.

what do they fucking eat.webp
What do they fucking eat?
 
Yes well, Tolkien never had the temerity to bring up tax policies because he wanted to demonstrate how much more intelligent he was compared to a beloved writer of classics. Martin doing that sort of begs people to poke and pry into his own policies. Woe unto him if they are found wanting.

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What do they fucking eat?
THats where Tolkien wins out as he put forethought into what do the people's eat as food is very much apart of one's culture and the dining scenes in any of the books are some of the best.
 
THats where Tolkien wins out as he put forethought into what do the people's eat as food is very much apart of one's culture and the dining scenes in any of the books are some of the best.
Tolkien even acknowledged that potatoes were a bit of an anachronism, but the fact that it clearly helped solidify the Hobbits' status as Englishmen means that it was easy to ignore the “goof.” Unfortunately, the fact that Martin feels more focused on writing food porn and porn-porn than explaining why things happen makes his failings more noticeable.
 
Yes well, Tolkien never had the temerity to bring up tax policies because he wanted to demonstrate how much more intelligent he was compared to a beloved writer of classics. Martin doing that sort of begs people to poke and pry into his own policies. Woe unto him if they are found wanting.

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What do they fucking eat?
The 10 year winters are speculated to be more similar to the little ice age where there is cooling but still time to plant and grow crops as well as that regions like Dorne, the Reach, Stormlands etc are only marginally effected by the winter and stay warm. Most of Essos and the other continents is also probably still warm and can trade with regions badly hit. They also have silos to store massive quantities of food and greenhouses and other methods of growing in regions badly hit like the North.
 
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The 10 year winters are speculated to be more similar to the little ice age where there is cooling but still time to plant and grow crops as well as that regions like Dorne, the Reach, Stormlands etc are only marginally effected by the winter and stay warm. Most of Essos and the other continents is also probably still warm and can trade with regions badly hit. They also have silos to store massive quantities of food and greenhouses and other methods of growing in regions badly hit like the North.
tbh that raises more questions than it answers, but OMG THE DORNISH ARE SLUTS AND MANWHORES, THE SUPER CURVY PURE SEX PRINCESS OF DORNE FUCKS ANYBODY AND EVERYBODY AND IT'S SO HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. SO DOES HER UNCLE AND HIS GIRLFRIEND, TOGETHER, SO HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. INCEST IS LITERALLY EVERYWHERE SO HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. TBF 99% OF ALL THE CHARACTERS EVEN THAT RANDOM PEASANT FROM WHEREVERTHEFUCKSBRIDGE ARE GLUTTON SEX GOBLIN MASS MURDERING TORTURERS ALL DAY EVERY DAY SO. FUCKIN. HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. SIX GORILLION COURSES AT A FEAST EACH CONTAINING 37 MAJOR INGREDIENTS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
 
tbh that raises more questions than it answers, but OMG THE DORNISH ARE SLUTS AND MANWHORES, THE SUPER CURVY PURE SEX PRINCESS OF DORNE FUCKS ANYBODY AND EVERYBODY AND IT'S SO HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. SO DOES HER UNCLE AND HIS GIRLFRIEND, TOGETHER, SO HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. INCEST IS LITERALLY EVERYWHERE SO HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. TBF 99% OF ALL THE CHARACTERS EVEN THAT RANDOM PEASANT FROM WHEREVERTHEFUCKSBRIDGE ARE GLUTTON SEX GOBLIN MASS MURDERING TORTURERS ALL DAY EVERY DAY SO. FUCKIN. HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT. SIX GORILLION COURSES AT A FEAST EACH CONTAINING 37 MAJOR INGREDIENTS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
All that food language is clearly there to establish that lemons grow in Dorne, meaning the house with the Red Door was also in Dorne, so Dany clearly spent her formative years there before Doran Martell, chessmaster, sent her to to Essos as part of a plot with Maester Marwyn. (This means fAegon is really supported by the Yronwoods as they supported the other Blackfyre pretenders.) Preston Jacobs did a 150 part series on it, HAVEN'T YOU SEEN IT? GEEZ
 
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