🤝 Community Tard Baby General (includes brain dead kids) - Fundies and their genetic Fuckups; Parents of corpses in denial

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Android raptor dijo:
Yeah they seem to be relatively happy and have a good quality of life, which is the important thing.

I can kind of get where the doctor is coming from though, at least if typical outcomes for conjoined twins like that really are that bad.

That aborted conjoined fetus with anencephaly though, oof. Talk about drawing an unlucky hand. Good thing the mother lived somewhere termination was avaliable.
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I actually got the impression that they died in utero and then were delivered afterwards.
 
Android raptor dijo:
Still an abortion regardless.
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Generally when people say "abortion" they mean a medical procedure, not "spontaneous abortion," and this doesn't appear to be that.
We present a case of diprosopus conjoined twin with craniorachischisis. The pregnancy was terminated.
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While the use of the passive voice makes the cause ambiguous, I think it is much more likely they mean the pregnancy was terminated voluntarily.

I should have known just from not even recognizing the word that any word this long and this obscure for a medical condition means something absolutely horrific. It's this:
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Anyone who wants to force someone to carry something like this to term uselessly is an absolute monster.

In this case the "cranio" part means it also comes with a side order of our old friend anencephaly.
 
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So it was conjoined, anencephalic, and had the spine(s) exposed? I thought the spines were just visible in the pics because it was still early enough for the skin to be transparent.

Jesus, just how fucked up can a fetus get? That's a damn cornucopia of lethal anomalies.

And yeah abortion ban states would absolutely force a woman to gestate something like that.

At least it never developed the capacity to suffer *sigh*
 
AnOminous dijo:
Generally when people say "abortion" they mean a medical procedure, not "spontaneous abortion," and this doesn't appear to be that.

While the use of the passive voice makes the cause ambiguous, I think it is much more likely they mean the pregnancy was terminated voluntarily.

I should have known just from not even recognizing the word that any word this long and this obscure for a medical condition means something absolutely horrific. It's this:
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Anyone who wants to force someone to carry something like this to term uselessly is an absolute monster.

In this case the "cranio" part means it also comes with a side order of our old friend anencephaly.
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This kid was believed to be the only person to be born alive with that type of spina bifida. He lived to be 12.
 
Craniorachischisis is apparently rachischisis with anencephaly. Looked it up on Google and got some pretty gnarly pics that have me wondering if prolifers have stolen them like they do with miscarriage pics to claim they're aborted fetuses (I'm sure some were actually aborted like the one on thefetus, but the gore is from the condition itself which is obviously lethal).

I wonder how common rachischisis without anencephaly is, and if there are any other long term survivors than that boy? Sounds pretty FUBAR regardless but at least the kid has a slight chance if it doesn't come bundled with anencephaly.
 
When I was in college in the early 1990s, a professor showed us a picture of a full-term baby that had anencephaly with rachischisis, and TWO NOSES. That thing sure freaked us out, that's for sure.

One of my friends pointed out, "Those pictures were really old." I had noticed that too.

p.s. Regarding the conjoined human fetuses: I really didn't want to look at them any longer than it took to click on the "back" button. I got the impression that they died naturally because they were yellowish, not pink or purple (in darker-skinned races) like other mid-trimester terminations usually are.
 
booklover dijo:
Yep, Krista and Tatiana Hogan. One girl controls an arm and 3 legs, and the other controls 3 arms and a leg (not totally, but for the most part) and they can also see out each others' eyes. How they can keep track of this is definitely one of the mysteries of the human brain.

p.s. Want to be REALLY horrified? Here's what a Canadian physician had to say about them. I wonder if he would say that now; I doubt it. (Face it, they're less of a burden on society than your average opiate addict, as I put on my flameproof suit.)

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The arrogance of this lady… so you’ve condemned your child to being a walking teachable moment? Not even born and they had their personhood reduced.

Felicia Hogan-Simms was given the choice of terminating her pregnancy. But she believes her twins were born to teach people to be tolerant and that it's okay to be “different.”
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Realistically, children like this are just part of the modern freak show. The Greatest Showman is an example of the “be kind” spin attempted on it.
 
Chandelier dijo:
This got me thinking.

A large portion of the anti abortion movement is based on fetal pain. Recall Laura Streitmann of Ohio Right to Life talking about ten year olds giving birth and that she shouldn't have "death instruments" shoved inside her.

But that got me thinking.

If a fetus can feel pain when the D&C tool comes in, and feel it being torn "limb from limb" as that side is fond of saying...can fetuses feel pain with these dangerous genetic conditions? Can a fetus feel pain if its skull is pressing into its brain? Can it feel pain if its heart and gastrointestinal system forms outside its body? Is it aware of what's happening? Why argue it's suddenly conscious and aware of when the tools come in, but not when it has these genetic diseases?

Are they arguing they don't have brain function anymore? I've never seen this answered.

That's a great website. It's funny how medical websites are the ones that have accurate sizes and appearances of fetuses vs those gory "pro life" sites.
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The whole "fetal pain" thing is kind of fascinating because we'll never know - not because it's impossible to know, but because no one wants to look into it deeply.

At some point in development, a fetus absolutely can and will feel pain. Nociception is a really basic process. Animals without brains still recognize that tissue damage is bad. Nociceptors develop early - like first trimester early. At some point they link up to the spinal cord (forming reflex arcs) and the brain (forming the actual perception of pain). Abortion rights organizations like to assert that fetuses can't feel pain until at least 24 weeks gestation (some even later), which is conveniently right around the time that elective abortion (meaning abortion that is NOT for a severe fetal anomaly or a major maternal illness) is restricted nationwide. But neonatology continues to advance - babies born at 23 weeks are getting resuscitated more and more frequently, and a good number of them survive with a decent quality of life. You'd better believe their doctors treat their pain.

Anti-abortion folks like to trumpet the cause of fetal pain because abortion bad, but they're eerily silent when it comes to major malformations. Yes, these things hurt. Sometimes babies suffer injuries during birth, most commonly things like broken clavicles or bruising. And yes, the babies are in pain - so we treat them. But you can't treat pain in utero, so those babies with osteogenesis imperfecta who break bones in utero? Yeah they hurt. Having your spinal cord or intestines exposed to amniotic fluid? Yes, that hurts - amniotic fluid is caustic to those tissues and burns them. Babies with serious brain malformations can have seizures in utero. It's not like all of the badness magically starts when they're born - even in utero life can be painful and unpleasant. And of course, babies born with major congenital malformations have a LONG road ahead of them with many more unpleasant surgeries, procedures, and treatments - even if they survive more than a few days, their lives are far from comfortable.

The truth of the matter is that at some point, fetuses can feel pain. But it's a deeply inconvenient and unpleasant truth for everyone involved, so no one's really going to try to suss this out. And of course, the idea of a pain-free existence is absurd.

But if I needed an abortion past the first trimester, I'd go take a propofol nap while it was done. No one feels anything.
 
The thing about being aware of anencephaly is that all you can really say is "jesus fuck, that's awful, I hope there was grief counselling available". There's no cure, no prospect of a cure, no way to mitigate it, no way to live with it. I guess the pictures might scare women planning a pregnancy into taking their folic acid to prevent it?
 
"His fight is my fight," holy shit snacks, that poor bub probably doesn't even have two brain cells to rub together, while his mom is talking about her "fight", even though it's her surrogate who has to go into labor soon. It's easy to talk about challenges that someone else has to overcome.

I just hope, the boy won't suffer too long and the surrogate will be alright after delivery. Christian zealotry or not - that shit is traumatizing as fuck.
 
David Glowie dijo:
The thing about being aware of anencephaly is that all you can really say is "jesus fuck, that's awful, I hope there was grief counselling available". There's no cure, no prospect of a cure, no way to mitigate it, no way to live with it. I guess the pictures might scare women planning a pregnancy into taking their folic acid to prevent it?
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The best thing for it is abortion or infant hospice if you want to go that route. My mom worked with someone whose first had it and she got an abortion. She ended up having all healthy kids after.
Adventarius dijo:
while his mom is talking about her "fight", even though it's her surrogate who has to go into labor soon. It's easy to talk about challenges that someone else has to overcome.

I just hope, the boy won't suffer too long and the surrogate will be alright after delivery.
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They should really right into the contracts that the surrogate is allowed to abort an anencephaly fetus. It's like the gamete donators are just trying to get their money's worth or Christian virtue signal against abortion without having to suffer a useless pregnancy.
 
Adventarius dijo:
I just hope, the boy won't suffer too long and the surrogate will be alright after delivery. Christian zealotry or not - that shit is traumatizing as fuck.
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The kid at least isn't going to suffer any more than Luna Buna does since it lacks all parts of the brain required for consciousness and awareness. That's the one small silver lining with anencephaly vs. other lethal fetal anomalies like limb body wall complex and t18/13.
 
David Glowie dijo:
The thing about being aware of anencephaly is that all you can really say is "jesus fuck, that's awful, I hope there was grief counselling available". There's no cure, no prospect of a cure, no way to mitigate it, no way to live with it. I guess the pictures might scare women planning a pregnancy into taking their folic acid to prevent it?
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some people have speculated that the heavy use of such vitamins to prevent neural tube defects may be causing autism, since the campaign to take folic acid & the rise in prenatal vitamin use coincided w/the rise in autistic children. of course being autistic is better than being anencephalic but it seems true that there would be some kind of trade-off to taking big doses of anything in order to prevent a specific problem.
 
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